Dead Battery, or something More?

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TriggerT

TriggerT

Mr. Impatient
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
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Location
Rockford, IL
A little back ground before I get to the heart of the problem.

The bike is a 2006, with 18K miles on it. I almost never ride for less than 30-45 minutes at a stretch. I keep the bike on a battery tender during the winter, but it is in a non-heated garage, and this winter has been BRUTAL! never had a single problem up until now.

OK, I run a Gerbing heated jacket liner on the bike, and the ZUMO GPS. I used the Gerbing liner all last fall, and didn't have any problems what so ever. My very nice wife got me a ZUMO for X-Mas this year, so I added it during the 4 months of down time this winter. Both of these items are hooked DIRRECTLY TO THE BATTERY, using the supplied wiring with in-line fuses.

I rode 3 times last week, and everything worked great. I have been leaving the ZUMO in the cradle all of the time. Yesterday I went to leave for work and the bike only cranked about 3 or 4 times, and then nothing. I had noticed that it started a little harder than normal when I rode it the day before, but I didn't give it that much thought. I put the bike back on the Battery Tender for the 12 hours while I was at work, with the ZUMO still in the cradle. When I got home last night the bike cranked about 3 or 4 times, and then nothing.

I start to think that the battery is just shot, even though it is less than 2 years old, and has been well cared for. So I took the ZUMO off of the bike, and left it on the Battery Tender for another 12 hours through the night. Sure as hell, this morning the bike fired right up. No problem at all.

So is the ZUMO pulling power from the battery even though it is turned of? Did I FOOK something up while wiring the ZUMO to the bike? Should I just replace the battery? Anyone else have a problem like this?

OK Electrical gurus, I am looking for some help. By the way, I have a volt meter on order, so I will then have a good idea of what kind of output the bike is generating.

 
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Volt meter good! Don't know about the quiescent current draw of a Zumo, I would expect it to be near zero when it is switched off. What really worries me is this:

I almost never die for less than 30-45 minutes at a stretch.
Click to expand...
:blink:
[assumption]

...never DRIVE for less...

[/assumption]

What is more important is that while you are driving that your engine is spinning 3k rpm or more. The output of the stator is very low from idle up to this rpm range so your heated clothing may be drawing too much power, preventing the battery from fully charging.

 
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I have a Garmin 2720 and it does not draw power when it is off. I don't think it draws enough power to drain your battery even if it was left on overnight. A radar detector, on the other hand, will drain the battery. And heated gear will probably drain it in very short order.

I would try charging the battery with the Gerbings gear unplugged, and ride the bike for a day or two without using the Gerbings and see if that solves the problem. If not then do the same thing with the Zumo.

 
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ionbeam said:
Volt meter good! Don't know about the quiescent current draw of a Zumo, I would expect it to be near zero when it is switched off. What really worries me is this:

I almost never die for less than 30-45 minutes at a stretch.
Click to expand...
:blink:
[assumption]

...never DRIVE for less...

[/assumption]

What is more important is that while you are driving that your engine is spinning 3k rpm or more. The output of the stator is very low from idle up to this rpm range so your heated clothing may be drawing too much power, preventing the battery from fully charging.
Click to expand...
Changed it. Damn auto correct.

 
Well, your Zumo draws a maximum of 15W @ 13.8 v.

The install manual and owner’s manual say to hook the Zumo directly to the battery to source power for cradle. It does say that if you use the optional automotive cig power that the Zumo will automatically turn on.

As long as you are using cradle power the Zumo should be OFF when it is switched off.

A volt meter will go a long way to solving the mystery. Is the soon to arrive meter something like an installed Datel or a hand-held volt meter? You would also like to know what your actual charging voltage is when you are hooked to your charger.

While spell checker has improved the quality of my life greatly :rolleyes: it does come with a need to proof read very carefully 'cause it can put words in my mouth that I never intended :lol:

 
ionbeam said:
Well, your Zumo draws a maximum of 15W @ 13.8 v.
The install manual and owner’s manual say to hook the Zumo directly to the battery to source power for cradle. It does say that if you use the optional automotive cig power that the Zumo will automatically turn on.

As long as you are using cradle power the Zumo should be OFF when it is switched off.

[color="#00FFFF]I believe that if you place the Zumo in the cradle and it is hooked directly to the power source (battery) you will in fact be charging the Zumo battery with the source battery, even with the Zumo shut off. I doubt that there is any mechanical/electrical device that senses when the Zumo is fully charged and cuts or reduces the power. I would think the drain is therefore coming from the Zumo. You need to remove it from the cradle after use (unless you need to charge). The way around this is to have the Zumo on a switched circuit. [/color]
Click to expand...
 
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Capt. B may be right, the Zumo manual only mentions the Auto cig cable as being related to battery charging.

 
My Zumo will charge in the cradle even when the Zumo is turned off. (If the cradle is hot wired.) That is one reason I wired mine to a switched source of power on the bike. When the key is switched off the Zumo goes off, that way I don't forget it on. And it comes back on when you start up.

In the truck it is plugged into the cig. lighter which is hot all the time so it just charges itself when the truck is off. But the truck has (2) 1000 CCA batteries so who cares.

Page 49 of the Zumo owners manual says to charge the Zumo just place it in a powered cradle, or use the A/C adapter.

I would rewire the bike to a switched source of power. It doesn't use much power so you could tie into most anything. I think I tied mine into the running lights.

 
Since I got a Zumo for Christmas also I've found that you can charge the battery three ways. One is with the supplied charger while in the comfort of an AC power source. Second is with the windshield mount (auto) and the cig lighter plug. Third is the way TriggerT has it hooked up on the FJR. Charging occurs when the power cable (either the cig or hard wire) is connected to the mount and a power source. The auto mount cable is permanently mounted to the cradle. The bike mount needs to have the cable attached. In either case, if the power cable is attached to a power source (the cig is hot all the time and wired directly to the battery, the bike mount will be too) placing the Zumo in the cradle effectively charges the device.

TriggerT, you need to remove the Zumo after use or add an inline switch.

Edit: S76 beat me to it but you get the point.

 
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I think my mystery is solved. I feel better when the Datel volt meter is installed, but for now I guess I will just have to take the ZUMO on and off, and rewire it when I have a chance. Thanks for all the answers.

 
Airborne! Sounds like you got your questions answered, so that's good. Were you leaving the Zumo on the bike overnight in the garage? If so, I would just have concerns about exposing it to cold temps and potential problems related to that. I plug mine in to the 12volt when in use, since I don't have any other electronics besides a cell phone charger to run off of the battery.

 
S76 said:
My Zumo will charge in the cradle even when the Zumo is turned off. (If the cradle is hot wired.) That is one reason I wired mine to a switched source of power on the bike. When the key is switched off the Zumo goes off, that way I don't forget it on. And it comes back on when you start up.
In the truck it is plugged into the cig. lighter which is hot all the time so it just charges itself when the truck is off. But the truck has (2) 1000 CCA batteries so who cares.

Page 49 of the Zumo owners manual says to charge the Zumo just place it in a powered cradle, or use the A/C adapter.

I would rewire the bike to a switched source of power. It doesn't use much power so you could tie into most anything. I think I tied mine into the running lights.
Click to expand...
I think you guys have one little gem of information about the ZUMO incorrect:

I also have the ZUMO and what I LOVE is how "smart" it is.

You see, it SHOULD be charging and ALWAYS "ON" when in the auto cradle. Yes, the screen turns off when you push the power button, but when you turn it back ON, it knows exactly where you are... even if you have moved and it comes on instantly. Try this... you'll see.

However, when you put it in the bike cradle, and turn the power "OFF", the screen turns off and the system shuts down completely. This is evident by the lack of a "Charging, press power to turn on" display when turned off and by the fact that it must go through the entire boot up and "find itself" routine when powered back on.

I have left mine in the bike cradle for days without any trouble on both my new bike and the old one. (Which had a questionable battery in it to begin with!)

If yours is working differently than this, then something is wrong. This is one hell-of-a-GPS and is smart enough to keep these things from happening. The true test is to take a voltmeter that measures current and put it inline with the cradle. Don't worry; the current draw is so small that you won't hurt even a cheap meter. You should see current while the GPS is ON and none while it is OFF. If you do, I would call Garmin and question it. Shouldn't be that way!

 
Well things are slow around here today so....

Following Duff's observations I went outside and tried the "on /off" routine with the Zumo in the "bike cradle".

It works just as he stated. Turn the power on (mine is switched) , Zumo powers up. I allowed it to gather data and pick up my location. I then shut it down (leaving the switched power on) and turned it back on. It went through the start up routine again. I noticed no readable change off or on in my Datal volt meter.

Next I called Garmin support only to find they are closed for Good Friday.

While eating my lunch, I read 18 pages from the Zumo Forum relating to hardwiring the Zumo to a bike's battery. For the most part, main Forum Members (but not all) agree with Duff's assesssment that when the Zumo is residing in the "bike cradle" and is powered down, there is no drain on the bike's battery. Some of these opinions are backed by measuring current draw. Sounds like Duff knows his stuff.

But wait..... Like any Forum, differences of opinions exist and a few members feel that there is (and has been measured )a small but none the less measurable drain from the cradle with the Zumo installed but powered off. One member sites a discussion on a VStrum forum. Another sites his own personal experience with his bike, the Zumo and a dead battery.

After wading through all the retoric and such, I'm inclined to agree with Duff's closing statements. Garmin should have designed the Zumo (bike friendly remember) to act as he has stated and if it doesn't then the problem lies with the bike cradle itself. There are several reports on the Zumo Forum of inoperative cradles that have been returned and replaced by Garmin. That would account for TriggerT's drain due to a defective cradle and fits the findings stated on the Zumo Forum.

I stand (somewhat) corrected on my earlier statement :unsure:

 
Capt. Bob said:
<SNIP>I stand (somewhat) corrected on my earlier statement :unsure:
Click to expand...
For the record, I never meant to "call anyone out". :rolleyes: I know you didn't take it that way. I just wanted to help everyone understand the way I "THINK" it is working and designed to work. To be honest, I have never put a meter inline and checked, but I have never had a reason to.

Once again, we are all just members trying to help each other where possible. Electronics happen to be my life and a personal passion... and I'm a bit of a gadget guy too. Glad I could help? :blink:

 
Duff said:
Capt. Bob said:
<SNIP>I stand (somewhat) corrected on my earlier statement :unsure:
Click to expand...
For the record, I never meant to "call anyone out". :rolleyes: I know you didn't take it that way. I just wanted to help everyone understand the way I "THINK" it is working and designed to work. To be honest, I have never put a meter inline and checked, but I have never had a reason to.

Once again, we are all just members trying to help each other where possible. Electronics happen to be my life and a personal passion... and I'm a bit of a gadget guy too. Glad I could help? :blink:
Click to expand...

Never took it that way at all Duff. I appreciate the help. It's the best part of this Forum.

It made for a rather interesting lunch.

 
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