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TechJunkie

TechJunkie

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Joined
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Location
Covington, IN
I was out riding with my brother-in-law this evening. We decided to head home a way that I was not familiar with so he took the lead. After one stop he took off in a spirited way and I decided to catch up. I took off and when the tach hit between 5K and 6K I shifted to 2nd. At this point I could feel the gear shift pulsate very quickly and then it shifted to 2nd. I hit about 6K and went to 3rd and again to 4th and 5th without any problems. I slowed and started in 1st again and shifted at about the same rpm to 2nd and once again I felt the shifter pulsate quickly and then it went into gear. Frustrated I tried it a third time and at the same rpm the tranny shifted fine without any difference between gears.

My FJR was new in 2008. When I first got the bike I complained that when it was hot it would sometimes sound and feel like it was grinding when going from 1st to 2nd. They moved the shifter but each time the tech rode it he said it was fine. I had them notate it in the record that I was still not satisfied and posted my concern here. The collective opinion was to ride it. When this did occur the shifting seemed rough in the other gears as well. Otherwise it seemed to shift fine. Once in gear it never pops out no matter the rpm. If I leave it on the center stand and let it set a few days and then ride it, it shifts like butter until hot then once in a wile 1st to 2nd will exhibit this problem, though just randomly.

It now has almost 18K on the clock and I am concerned and looking for ideas on what I can check/diagnose. Here are my thoughts on probable causes/solutions , please feel free to add/delete. I am not a first class mechanic and have never seen inside a motorcycle tranny:

1) Clutch fluid needs to be changed and not allowing clutch to full disengage when hot.

2) Clutch plates need to be removed, cleaned, soaked and reinstalled. When hot they may be sticking together not fully disengaging. Bike never pulls forward with clutch pulled in, however.

3) Shift fork may be bent, though the problem seems to come and go and is not consistent. Not sure if a bent shift fork causes issues sometimes and not others.

4) There is no problem, quit whining and ride it like you stole it.

5) Trade it in quickly on one of the far superior 2011 models coming out.

My main concern is that what I am feeling is the gear dogs skipping past each other before final engagement. If so, I am concerned that within a few thousand miles I may experience the dreaded popping out of gear that a few others have written about.

Any thoughts, troubleshooting ideas or suggestions welcome.

 
Do you have YES? Sounds like having it would be good, right around now.

You probably have worn shift dogs and possibly a bent shift fork - as you may recall from your previous research this is a known weakness with this design when you miss a single shiift. No matter what, to diagnose this involves opening up the tranny.

 
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Could be as simple as foot position. I missed a couple 1-2 shifts early in my bike's history, was told to adjust the shifter position, and it worked! I had to adjust it again when I change boots. I wasn't getting the ratchet all the way up every time, apparently.

Adjustment is easy, there are two 10mm locknuts on the arm linking the pedal to the tranny. Loosen them, and you'll find that the shaft spins like a turnbuckle, one way makes it longer, the other way shorter. I'd start by shortening it a bit.

Also, don't be gentle with the shifter. You WILL get grinding if you try to shift slowly and carefully. There are no synchronizers in a motorcycle transmission, so nothing needs "time to engage." The dogs have to be shoved firmly into position. If you take more than a quarter of a second to move the shifter, you're taking too long. When you were taught to shift a car, I'll bet you were told never to "speed-shift." Well, the bike NEEDS that, since it's a completely different design.

 
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First thing, go back to the dealer to refresh your concern again, and let them respond, just so that is on record too.

But, other than ensuring the shift lever position is adjusted properly so you get positive shifts into second, you could change oil to a full synthetic.... Amzoil 20W50, or mix 1 or 2 10W40 with it if you think 20W50 is too thick. But, don't change the oil until you have the dealer diagnose and you are ensuring positive shifts.

 
TechJunkie said:
I was out riding with my brother-in-law this evening. We decided to head home a way that I was not familiar with so he took the lead. After one stop he took off in a spirited way and I decided to catch up. I took off and when the tach hit between 5K and 6K I shifted to 2nd. At this point I could feel the gear shift pulsate very quickly and then it shifted to 2nd. I hit about 6K and went to 3rd and again to 4th and 5th without any problems. I slowed and started in 1st again and shifted at about the same rpm to 2nd and once again I felt the shifter pulsate quickly and then it went into gear. Frustrated I tried it a third time and at the same rpm the tranny shifted fine without any difference between gears.
My FJR was new in 2008. When I first got the bike I complained that when it was hot it would sometimes sound and feel like it was grinding when going from 1st to 2nd. They moved the shifter but each time the tech rode it he said it was fine. I had them notate it in the record that I was still not satisfied and posted my concern here. The collective opinion was to ride it. When this did occur the shifting seemed rough in the other gears as well. Otherwise it seemed to shift fine. Once in gear it never pops out no matter the rpm. If I leave it on the center stand and let it set a few days and then ride it, it shifts like butter until hot then once in a wile 1st to 2nd will exhibit this problem, though just randomly.

It now has almost 18K on the clock and I am concerned and looking for ideas on what I can check/diagnose. Here are my thoughts on probable causes/solutions , please feel free to add/delete. I am not a first class mechanic and have never seen inside a motorcycle tranny:

1) Clutch fluid needs to be changed and not allowing clutch to full disengage when hot.

2) Clutch plates need to be removed, cleaned, soaked and reinstalled. When hot they may be sticking together not fully disengaging. Bike never pulls forward with clutch pulled in, however.

3) Shift fork may be bent, though the problem seems to come and go and is not consistent. Not sure if a bent shift fork causes issues sometimes and not others.

4) There is no problem, quit whining and ride it like you stole it.

5) Trade it in quickly on one of the far superior 2011 models coming out.

My main concern is that what I am feeling is the gear dogs skipping past each other before final engagement. If so, I am concerned that within a few thousand miles I may experience the dreaded popping out of gear that a few others have written about.

Any thoughts, troubleshooting ideas or suggestions welcome.
Click to expand...
I have had the same issues for quite a while now 1'st to 2'nd double clicks to get in but the rest of the gears are fine. The one flaw in this bike is the tranny. It never has shifted quite that smoothly. So far I have wrote it off to piss poor design. I hate to say it but I rode a hardly that shifted much better. :(

Dave

 
My 03 has done the same thing from time to time for a 100k. It shifts better if I shift from first to second above 5k. It also seems better after anoil change but it may just be the operator. I may try the STP thing to see if that helps.

 
Mine was the same when i first got it. Switched to 10-40 full syn. Instantly started shifting buttery smooth. Whole different beast after the oil type change. Been a few oil changes since and still perfect.

Dealer was using 20-50 when they were doing the original service.

Josh

 
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IIRC, the bent shift fork involved coming out of gear. To me it sounds like the dogs are barking. It is possible due to it needing a clutch soak that is doesn't want to go into 2nd.

To repeat someone, if you have YES, take it in again. Tell them to ride it a while to really heat it up etc, then try to recreate the issue by tacking like you did at shifting. Ask the dealer to do the clutch soak if covered.

If you're able to do it, you may want to try the clutch soak yourself. If it still does it after that, take it in.

 
Thank you to everyone that replied. I was asleep at the wheel, ok wife has had me working on the house to be exact, and I am just now getting back to my post.

First of all, I do not have YES. I learned too late. I purchased an extended warranty through the dealership but not YES. I asked about it and they didn't sell YES, at least that is what they said. I should have done my homework here but that is history now.

Second, a had a different dealer adjust the shifter. That Yamaha shop seemed to cater to racers and the service manager, who raced himself, immediately had me sit on the bike and shift. They took it back for service and asked me to try it again before I left. It did feel better but the behavior returned. He rode it hard, he said, and didn't feel anything unusual.

Third, I am using Shell Rotella T6 full synthetic. I have tried 10W40 and 20W50 both blended and full synth. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

Fourth, I am mechanically inclined, or just stupid and brave enough to try. I have changed a stator ect on other bikes. I can't believe that the clutch would be that big of a deal with the repair manual and the help from this site. Definitely wouldn't hurt to soak the clutch plates. Never know but not expecting a magic cure here. Just be great to see what condition they are in and be sure they are bathed and happy!

Finally, since doing the honey do list for the last couple of weeks off and on, I haven't had an opportunity to ride. I rode to work today, clickity click click. I came home, clickity click click. I then went back into town and home and not one glitch. The difference? It has started to cool down in Indiana, I wasn't going that far only about a total of six miles each trip and it has sat for about a week and a half.

I think I am going to soak the clutch plates just in case and then ride it like I stole it.

As FJRBluesman said, the "Dogs are barking" the tranny is definately not slipping out of gear. I can full on in each gear as hard as it will go without slipping.

Any other suggestions are welcome. Otherwise, I'm off to get a gasket and repair manual! Good fall project!

 
TechJunkie,

I have a concurrent thread (here) with the same issue. I did the clutch soak and it didn't matter. My 06 resists going into 2nd gear at higher rpms but stays in gear ("barking dog" exactly like you described with your bike). I haven't found a fix, but you can read about what I tried in my post. I may end up trying a synthetic but am weight trying a Barnett. One issue si that there hasn't been one solution that has worked for all (possibly suggesting different root causes). The closest thing is the soak, but it's still hit or miss. Some folks swear oil made a huge difference and for others it was wasted dead dinosaurs. I'll keep at at and keep reporting.

 
FJRBluesman said:
To me it sounds like the dogs are barking.
Click to expand...
Noises concurrent with clutch engagement and power delivery are mostly caused by the friction material/discs/and lube-oil interface in the clutch itself (dry) -- usually needing more oil. Some (other makes) have had to drill more holes in the inner-basket to facilitate more oil. It's largely a matter of composition of friction components and type and viscosity of lube-oil. Changing oil brand and type (to something less viscous) is an easy experimental fix.

 
charismaticmegafauna said:
FJRBluesman said:
To me it sounds like the dogs are barking.
Click to expand...
Noises concurrent with clutch engagement and power delivery are mostly caused by the friction material/discs/and lube-oil interface in the clutch itself (dry) -- usually needing more oil. Some (other makes) have had to drill more holes in the inner-basket to facilitate more oil. It's largely a matter of composition of friction components and type and viscosity of lube-oil. Changing oil brand and type (to something less viscous) is an easy experimental fix.
Click to expand...
So a slight "highjack" is the Barnett Clutch Pack any different from OEM in composition? Fiber or ? I also never see mentioned their Barnett Spring Conversion. I have used both in other bikes with great results.

So has anyone tried both on a FJR? From my perspective if drive ability is affected and the clutch is the diagnosed condition I would bite on the full Barnett set up. I would think the spring adjust would help in getting the plates what they want, and lockup like your individual style wants.

On the other hand the hundreds of post I have read lead me to believe the FJR has a pretty robust clutch. The only issues I have read were in fact cleaning and soaking the clutch pack for 24-36 hours. I know I soaked new ones 24 hours when I installed them. So if that does not solve the issue I would be on to a new clutch kit.

Not sure of cost OEM to Barnett, but unless I was really strapped I would go for the Barnett. As with OEM suspension components, clutch, and sometimes brake components, they work, but just well enough. Aftermarket of most of these products are much better than OEM offerings, but then again if were on the bike already, would add cost quickly.

 
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camdenlake said:
Mine was the same when i first got it. Switched to 10-40 full syn. Instantly started shifting buttery smooth. Whole different beast after the oil type change. Been a few oil changes since and still perfect.

Dealer was using 20-50 when they were doing the original service.

Josh
Click to expand...
Camdenlake,

Which oil 10W-40 did you end up using?

 
SnowmobileGuy said:
camdenlake said:
Mine was the same when i first got it. Switched to 10-40 full syn. Instantly started shifting buttery smooth. Whole different beast after the oil type change. Been a few oil changes since and still perfect.

Dealer was using 20-50 when they were doing the original service.

Josh
Click to expand...
Camdenlake,

Which oil 10W-40 did you end up using?
Click to expand...

I have been using respol and spectro i think was the other one. Could be my mind but I found the respol maybe a little better.

Josh

 
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SnowmobileGuy said:
TechJunkie,
I have a concurrent thread (here) with the same issue. I did the clutch soak and it didn't matter. My 06 resists going into 2nd gear at higher rpms but stays in gear ("barking dog" exactly like you described with your bike). I haven't found a fix, but you can read about what I tried in my post. I may end up trying a synthetic but am weight trying a Barnett. One issue si that there hasn't been one solution that has worked for all (possibly suggesting different root causes). The closest thing is the soak, but it's still hit or miss. Some folks swear oil made a huge difference and for others it was wasted dead dinosaurs. I'll keep at at and keep reporting.
Click to expand...

I used Spectro blended synthetic at the recommendation of the service staff since I bought it. I moved to Rotella T6 at the last oil change with 6oz of STP. Made some slight difference but not 100%. I'll read through your thread and see if anything different stands out.

Thanks for the reply. Let me know if you find anything new out!

 
Here's a question that may help narrow down the problem:

When you get the click clack, is it happening when you have the clutch pulled in and are attempting to shift from 1st to 2nd?

Or is it happening when you have already completed the shift and are releasing the clutch and applying power?

The bent shift fork and mangled 2nd gear dogs situation results in the dogs "skipping" during the application of power under heavy acceleration. So that would be the second scenario above. It doesn't sound like this is your situation. That is a good thing for a guy without YES. ;)

OTOH, if you are getting the clickety clack while actively shifting (still moving the shift lever) then this is more likely caused by foot position and / or clutch drag, which can have a number of possible root causes. Not the least of which is that the 2nd gen clutch has a weird engagement point, possibly designed that way to allow YCCS compatibility.

Several folks have reported that in order to get full disengagement of the clutch they needed to move the lever's adjustment wheel to the position that moves the lever fully away from the handle bar at rest (I forget which number that is). It may not be your ergonomic preference, but it sure is cheap. Give that a try and see if it makes any difference.

FWIW, both generations of FJR clutches seem to have a lot of drag compared to other bikes. This is what causes the KerChunk! when you put them in gear from neutral. Listen next time you are heading out on a group ride. I've recently completely dissassembled mine and everything is in perfect shape, and yet it still does that.

An aftermarket clutch kit may be the only answer to completely eliminating clutch drag. But I can't recall any reports of someone installing one and saying they achieved clutch nirvana.

 
Fred W said:
Here's a question that may help narrow down the problem:

1) When you get the click clack, is it happening when you have the clutch pulled in and are attempting to shift from 1st to 2nd?

2) OTOH, if you are getting the clickety clack while actively shifting (still moving the shift lever) then this is more likely caused by foot position and / or clutch drag, which can have a number of possible root causes. Not the least of which is that the 2nd gen clutch has a weird engagement point, possibly designed that way to allow YCCS compatibility.

3) Several folks have reported that in order to get full disengagement of the clutch they needed to move the lever's adjustment wheel to the position that moves the lever fully away from the handle bar at rest (I forget which number that is). It may not be your ergonomic preference, but it sure is cheap. Give that a try and see if it makes any difference.

4) FWIW, both generations of FJR clutches seem to have a lot of drag compared to other bikes. This is what causes the KerChunk! when you put them in gear from neutral. Listen next time you are heading out on a group ride. I've recently completely dissassembled mine and everything is in perfect shape, and yet it still does that.
Click to expand...
1) Yes ONLY when shifting while the clutch is pulled in.

2) I am starting to suspect clutch drag as shift lever has been repositioned.

3) Check this off the list as well. All the way out.

4) I am just about to the mindset to just ride it and not worry about it. It is intermittent, will do it at slow speed once and then shift fine for a while. Then it may do it during a high rpm shift and then not again under the same scenario. The Feejer is 100% in every other way.

 

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