Fails to restart when hot

Fails to restart when hot

Mine is a ‘02, 28K miles owned from new. In the past 12 months on three separate occasions it has refused to re-start after switching off from a run. The symptoms are the bike is hot, turn it off and soon after turn it back on and it will not fire up. There is no sound of the pump priming, merely the cranking of the motor; but I’m sure I hear an audible click as I switch on. It will often restart a little later when it is cold, but not always.

I’ve seen the YouTube clip where the guy just cranks it & cranks it and then cranks it some more, and eventually it roars into life a sweet as a nut. I also read on an Oz FJR forum of a guy doing much the same after shipping his bike to NZ and it had been in a box for a few weeks.

I’ve been told to look at the Fuel Pump Relay, the ignition switch, even one of the coils.

But how long is a bit string? Does any of this make any sense to you blokes; as any advice is (in theory) good advice?

“Ride safe, it's not only bikes that are recalled by their manufacturer”.

Does it crank slowly when it's hot?

Do you have a voltmeter, and if so, how does the voltage while cranking compare when cold versus when hot?

Does holding the throttle wide open when cranking hot get it started?

The first two questions may point to a starter issue, the third would indicate flooding after being shut off, possibly seeping injector.

I'm not surprised you don't hear the fuel pump run when you turn it off soon after running. The system is still pressurized for quite a while after shutdown, and the pump doesn't need to run.

wfooshee said:

I'm not surprised you don't hear the fuel pump run when you turn it off soon after running. The system is still pressurized for quite a while after shutdown, and the pump doesn't need to run.

Click to expand...

Huh? What the heck are you talking about Walt?

I hear the fuel pump run every time I turn the ignition to 'on'. Even if I cycle the key on/off within 1 second. Fuel pump whirrs and does it's thing again. And that's been on 3 different FJRs I have owned.

If his fuel pump isn't making noise when turns the key and ignition to 'on', there is definitely something wrong there.

You might want to start with a New Battery and see if this solves your problem.

and there are some Tips in this link:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=135171]

I have always had a problem with restarting after stopping for a quick run into the store or picking up the mail. Tries to start but if I keep the switch pressed I get a pause, blank instrument screen and the clock and mileage resets. My work around for the last 50k miles is short clicks of the starter switch and after a few tries it Vroooooms into action. Oh well, never have gotten stuck anywhere. It has been like this since I bought it used.

cometman said:

I have always had a problem with restarting after stopping for a quick run into the store or picking up the mail. Tries to start but if I keep the switch pressed I get a pause, blank instrument screen and the clock and mileage resets. My work around for the last 50k miles is short clicks of the starter switch and after a few tries it Vroooooms into action. Oh well, never have gotten stuck anywhere. It has been like this since I bought it used.

Click to expand...

To me, that sounds like a battery that is not 100%, or a starter issue.

SkooterG said:

cometman said:

I have always had a problem with restarting after stopping for a quick run into the store or picking up the mail. Tries to start but if I keep the switch pressed I get a pause, blank instrument screen and the clock and mileage resets. My work around for the last 50k miles is short clicks of the starter switch and after a few tries it Vroooooms into action. Oh well, never have gotten stuck anywhere. It has been like this since I bought it used.

Click to expand...

To me, that sounds like a battery that is not 100%, or a starter issue.

Click to expand...

New battery did not fix it but could be a less than 100% charge like you say. Only happens in hot weather after a good ride. Never had it happen in the cold Winter months. Very strange and intermittent. Thanks for the comment though and could be the starter overheating or something. I am not worried anymore but did worry from 2007 to 2008 then just went with the quirk and just live with it. I'm fortunate to even get to ride a FJR.

SkooterG said:

wfooshee said:

I'm not surprised you don't hear the fuel pump run when you turn it off soon after running. The system is still pressurized for quite a while after shutdown, and the pump doesn't need to run.

Click to expand...

Huh? What the heck are you talking about Walt?

I hear the fuel pump run every time I turn the ignition to 'on'. Even if I cycle the key on/off within 1 second. Fuel pump whirrs and does it's thing again. And that's been on 3 different FJRs I have owned.

If his fuel pump isn't making noise when turns the key and ignition to 'on', there is definitely something wrong there.

Click to expand...

My bike does not always run the fuel pump if it is still pressurized, i.e. turning it on, letting it run, then off and back on within a fairly short period of time.

Thanks Fellas, certainly a few things to ponder. Firstly the battery, this happened at first when the old battery was still in situ; which I can’t complain about as it was the OEM item supplied with the bike 1 August 2003 and I only changed it June of this year (8 years & it’s still charged in the garage as a spare). I keep 'em on a trickle charger 4 hours a day. So the power I don’t see as a problem.

As for starter speed, whips over as fast as norm just no vroom-vroom. I do twist the throttle a tad, but I don’t crank it for that long. I see is as being same as a car, crank to long and they flood (though as I say having seen the YouTube thing maybe not). I’ve always thought if it isn’t going to catch on the first few goes it isn’t going to work at all.

Likewise the dials all respond as they should do, no flicking of the speedo or error codes, nuffin.

Maybe I should look at the Fuel Pump Relay? Next question may seem stupid, where is it? I’m assuming that it isn’t in the tank with the pump?

“Ride safe, it's not only bikes that are recalled by their manufacturer”.

Are you holding the throttle partially open whenever you start the bike? If so, that might be your problem. Generally you should not touch the throttle while starting a fuel injected bike unless it's flooded, in which case you need to hold the throttle wide open while cranking.

I'm not sure about the Gen I, but on the Gen II bikes the fuel pump relay is easily accessible below the headlamps.

Thanks for the idea; trouble is I've pretty much always given it a twist when starting; and this has only happened three times 8 years; and all within the last year. First time last July (2010), then three/four weeks ago and last time last Saturday (14th). As for the relay's location one would assume that it's in the same place?

Thanks mate

Just a further thought, do these bikes (MkI or MkII) suffer from fuel starvation/evaporation symptoms when they are hot? I'm assuming not as they are injected; but certainly old MG's do

SkooterG said:

wfooshee said:

I'm not surprised you don't hear the fuel pump run when you turn it off soon after running. The system is still pressurized for quite a while after shutdown, and the pump doesn't need to run.

Click to expand...

Huh? What the heck are you talking about Walt?

I hear the fuel pump run every time I turn the ignition to 'on'. Even if I cycle the key on/off within 1 second. Fuel pump whirrs and does it's thing again. And that's been on 3 different FJRs I have owned.

If his fuel pump isn't making noise when turns the key and ignition to 'on', there is definitely something wrong there.

Click to expand...

I gotta admit, I'm with Skooter on this one. 'specially since it's a Gen I with fuel return, there really is no pressure on the fuel system when the ignition is switched off, as any pressure left in the fuel rail would return to the tank. EVERY time I turn on the ignition, I hear the fuel pump do its thing...and when it's hot, say after it's been running long enough to get the temp up to normal, it actually sounds a little like a toilet flushing when first switched on....ku-klungggggggwooosssshhhhhhhbubblebubblebubble.

The fuel pressure is controlled by a vacuum device, so there's nothing in the ECU system to tell the pump "don't turn on...the system's already pressurized." Turn the key on...pump runs. Every time on my 04.

Which can be checked for both checked for system voltage and actuation too via diAG 'actuator' and sensor tests.

Sgt3355 said:

Just a further thought, do these bikes (MkI or MkII) suffer from fuel starvation/evaporation symptoms when they are hot? I'm assuming not as they are injected; but certainly old MG's do

Click to expand...

Yeahbut, old MGs used tin cans for carburetors. That tin would get REAL hot and boil away the fuel inside the can. British Leyland products were not exactly known for temperature management under the bonnet.

cometman said:

I have always had a problem with restarting after stopping for a quick run into the store or picking up the mail. Tries to start but if I keep the switch pressed I get a pause, blank instrument screen and the clock and mileage resets. My work around for the last 50k miles is short clicks of the starter switch and after a few tries it Vroooooms into action. Oh well, never have gotten stuck anywhere. It has been like this since I bought it used.

Click to expand...

mine too, but only in the summer

stopping for only 5 minutes or less in hot weather...fan running when key on, then hit starter

it's surprising how much juice that fan steals from the system...I've need 9.x volts while cranking when high 10's or low 11's are usual

and how much harder for all systems to gel for the start when engine is still cooking from heat

today was typical...note...battery is like new

I stopped for fuel...I fuel sitting on the bike and takes 5-7 minutes

turn key on...fan starts running...voltmeter goes from 12.2 at rest to like 11.8...press starter

engine turns a bit...slows down to a "chug"...might even pause a millisecond...chugs chugs chugs...spins faster and vrooooooommmmmm

dash blanks out while starter is turning <this might be normal, I don't remember>

if it pauses a bit more...clock and tripometers reset...happens about once a year in July like today...road temps >110F with heat index 117F

my habit, though, is to mash the starter button and hold it, holding on till it starts...I find letting off screws up the systems even more

and if it floods, well, it's tough to get it to catch even holding the throttle wide open and spinning the starter like crazy

that's when you pray your battery is up to snuff !!!

I know it's hot when my mp3 stored in the clear map pouch on top of my tank bag...shuts down because of the heat...I have to fetch a frozen bottle of water

and hold the device against it for 5-10 minutes to rejuinate it to working mode again

carlson_mn said:

SkooterG said:

wfooshee said:

I'm not surprised you don't hear the fuel pump run when you turn it off soon after running. The system is still pressurized for quite a while after shutdown, and the pump doesn't need to run.

Click to expand...

Huh? What the heck are you talking about Walt?

I hear the fuel pump run every time I turn the ignition to 'on'. Even if I cycle the key on/off within 1 second. Fuel pump whirrs and does it's thing again. And that's been on 3 different FJRs I have owned.

If his fuel pump isn't making noise when turns the key and ignition to 'on', there is definitely something wrong there.

Click to expand...

My bike does not always run the fuel pump if it is still pressurized, i.e. turning it on, letting it run, then off and back on within a fairly short period of time.

Click to expand...

Yeah, well with your oil consumption and now this news it is clear you have yourself one POS FJR. :lol:

Don't know what to tell you. I have had 3 2004 FJRs and ALWAYS here the fuel pump prime when the ignition is switched on. I would be freaked if I didn't hear that comforting, how did RH put it? "ku-klungggggggwooosssshhhhhhhbubblebubblebubble."

As for the cometman and Mike, on a properly running FJR, you shouldn't have any issues with starting when the bike is hot. I have ridden my FJRs in summertime Phoenix temps just about every day. There have been a *plethora* of REALLY HOT starts. All too frequently with the fan running. If all systems are good, I have no drama starting the bike. On the few occasions where I have experienced the slow start, or blank of the gauges, or even no-start, I have been able to trace the problem back to a weak battery or my starter going bad.

ok damn - I'm going out to the garage to double check this 'fuel pump mystery' :lol: . I'm bringing the camera too. FWIW my bike has never stumbled once starting up, hot or cold. Must be the oil burning.

Could be slightly leaky fuel injectors. That would create an overly rich mixture that would be difficult to ignite.