Brake Pad Bolts

2 of em stripped while installing at around 12lbs while torquing. What the hell? Hex bits are not rounded and in good shape. Is this a known problem? On the upside I don't need to remove em until a brake job. Don't ask why they needed to be removed just to take off the front wheel.

The 12mm hex head bolts that secure the front calipers to the forks?? Those do have to come off for a tire change.

I'd swear I've heard about these bolts being stripped before, but that seems to be a common occurrence with these bikes and I could be wrong.

If it is the bolts I'm thinking of, I bet you could Helicoil them easily.

tesla said:

2 of em stripped while installing at around 12lbs while torquing. What the hell?

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The threads are stripped at 12? Hmmmm....me wonder about your torque wrench calibration. And if you're calling them "brake pad bolts" I'm a tiny bit dubious since they're technically brake caliper bolts.

More often I hear of bolts being rounded off using 12 point sockets and not placing the socket firmly and squarely on the bolt head.

HotRodZilla said:

I'd swear I've heard about these bolts being stripped before, but that seems to be a common occurrence with these bikes and I could be wrong.

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Not sure I've heard about this being a known problem on the FRONT caliper bolts. But both of us have certainly read about this being a known problem with the rear caliper bolts.

exskibum said:

HotRodZilla said:

I'd swear I've heard about these bolts being stripped before, but that seems to be a common occurrence with these bikes and I could be wrong.

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Not sure I've heard about this being a known problem on the FRONT caliper bolts. But both of us have certainly read about this being a known problem with the rear caliper bolts.

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Yeah...When I saw the title, I thought for sure it was gonna be the rears. I know those strip because I stripped mine taking them out for the first brake pad change.

Looking at the parts fiche right now...The only bolts are the ones im thinking of. The ones that secure the entire caliper assembly to the forks. Two per side.

Those gotta be pretty hard to strip, but I guess it could happen. Either way, due to their location, I think they'd be an easy fix.

Just the heads stripped and it is the 2 long skinny ones on each side of the calipers. I'll order a set of 4 and replace all of

em on the next brake job. I think Haulinashe does that as part of his brake change routine.....maybe he's had them strip in the past?

Ok...That makes sense. You gotta make sure your wrench or socket is seated correctly. Just one of those deals. I donno about Jeff, but I've had mine off prolly 10 times in the last 40k and never replaced one yet.

Maybe getting a couple wouldn't be a bad idea...Just to have a spare.

If you rounded out the inside of the hex bolt, I would think you need a better hex socket. If the fit is loose this can happen. Never rounded one out with a proper fitting hex key, but I guess it could happen.

tesla said:

2 of em stripped while installing at around 12lbs while torquing. What the hell? Hex bits are not rounded and in good shape. Is this a known problem? On the upside I don't need to remove em until a brake job. Don't ask why they needed to be removed just to take off the front wheel.

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It looks like yours is a Gen II FJR. Not familiar with those myself as I have a Gen I (2004).

But on the Gen I the brake caliper bolts are actually hollow. If you overtighten them it is actually possible to cause the bolt to stretch. This makes the center of the bolt pinch (gets narrower) and causes the thread pitch to change (elongates). Makes it seem like the threads are dragging or gummed up the next time you put them back in.

So absolutely be careful not to overtighten these bolts. Even if you don't strip the threads in the caliper you can still mess up the threads on the bolts.

Here's a couple suggestions for the new bolts.

1) Torque values in the manual are MAX values, not optimum values. So I usually reduce by the spec'd torque by about 10%-20%. So if something was rated at 12 Ftlbs I would actually aim for around 9-10 ftlbs.

2) Anti-Sieze paste is your friend. Pick some up at a local autoparts store. Apply to the threads before assembly. It actually serves two purposes. The first is to prevent the bolts seizing in place. The second is that I have found it does have a bit of a threadlocking ability. So not only does it help keep the bolt from coming loose, it also means that when you go to remove it does so fairly easily.

Since taking this approach for pretty much all the bolts on the bike I have virtually eliminated the issue of stripped and siezed bolts and haven't had any problems with anything rattling off on the road.

Hope this helps.

Colin

Don't know if there are differences in Gen I and Genn II, but I have had those bolts on and off dozens of times with never a problem.

Colin24 said:

1) Torque values in the manual are MAX values, not optimum values. So I usually reduce by the spec'd torque by about 10%-20%. So if something was rated at 12 Ftlbs I would actually aim for around 9-10 ftlbs.

2) Anti-Sieze paste is your friend. Pick some up at a local autoparts store. Apply to the threads before assembly. It actually serves two purposes. The first is to prevent the bolts seizing in place. The second is that I have found it does have a bit of a threadlocking ability. So not only does it help keep the bolt from coming loose, it also means that when you go to remove it does so fairly easily.

Since taking this approach for pretty much all the bolts on the bike I have virtually eliminated the issue of stripped and siezed bolts and haven't had any problems with anything rattling off on the road.

Hope this helps.

Colin

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I respectfully disagree. Recommended torque values are exactly that. They ensure that the bolts are tight enough to stay in place, but not tightened enough to distort the component or fastener. If you use any kind of thread lubricant, including Never Seize, it is impossible to torque the fastener correctly, because the specs apply to dry threads only, although there are some applications where the manufacturer recommends using a light coat of oil or threads locker. The torque specs are adjusted to compensate for that.

That said, I do agree that Anti Seize is your friend. Most everyone would recommend using Never Seize on anything that typically has threading problems, and using Never Seize and dropping the torque value by 10%-20% may just work out perfectly. However, I'd strongly recommend against using a lower torque value on anything I didn't want to fall off my motorcycle. I'd probably stick with the recommended torque value, and hope that the fastener and threads can take the higher load. I would only stray from this if there was a chance that I'd crush a gasket, or distort a part by over torquing it. Some mechanics have a great feel for the threads distorting, or the bolts stretching, and never break anything. I'm not one of them, so I'll just trust my torque wrench.

Joe

anything short of head bolts and axle bolts (torque wrench applies), I use the Mike's wrist snug plus a qweek torque

I do shoot some PB Blaster the night before on caliper bolts or anything that gets hot in the normal scheme of things...and I have spare caliper bolts on hand just in case

and always use 6 point quality (I use Craftsman) sockets with 1/4 or 3/8 inch drive, 12point is common on 1/2

and if you want to argue torque standards in the Yamaha Service Manual...go ahead and torque your oil drain bolt to 32ft-lbs

just have the spare oil pan or the proper helicoil ready and handy

wmadoty said:

If you rounded out the inside of the hex bolt, I would think you need a better hex socket. If the fit is loose this can happen. Never rounded one out with a proper fitting hex key, but I guess it could happen.

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You got me thinking so I went out and checked my hex sockets. I think the picture says it all. I put an an old L shaped hex key in the picture for reference. Why do they make em that way?

So they weren't actually caliper bolts then? Mine are mounted with 12mm bolts not cap head screws.

While doing Andys fork seal change last month, I twisted one of my either S&K or craftsman allen wrenches into a pretzel while breaking those loose. Could it be you used an SAE sized wrench instead of metric?

tesla said:

wmadoty said:

If you rounded out the inside of the hex bolt, I would think you need a better hex socket. If the fit is loose this can happen. Never rounded one out with a proper fitting hex key, but I guess it could happen.

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You got me thinking so I went out and checked my hex sockets. I think the picture says it all. I put an an old L shaped hex key in the picture for reference. Why do they make em that way?

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I have taken many to a bench grinder to square them up and it has prolonged the usefulness of them and makes them fit much better into the cap of the bolt.

+1 - to the grinder with those tools. Just be sure to grind it veeeeery sloooowly so you do not over-heat the bit and ruin the tempered hardening.

As to why they make them that way? My guess is that it makes it easier to fit the tool into the fastener quickly. IME quickly is seldom the best way.

FYI... I believe that what we are actually talking about getting "stripped" are item #8 in the illustrated parts breakdown, aka "Pad Pins" part number 3P6-25924-00-00 and list for $32.87 each

The torque spec for those is 12 ft-lbs. My guess is that your torque wrench may be incapable of accurately measuring 12 ft lbs. Anything with this low of a torque spec doesn't really need to be torqued. They are just in there to retain the brake pads. On the first gen, they are just clevis pinned into place (no threads)

The caliper bolts that everyone else is talking about in this thread, i.e. the fasteners that hold the caliper to the fork leg, are hex head bolts with a 29 ft-lb torque spec. Those are the bolts that you need to remove to take off the calipers for wheel removal. Those fasteners you do want to torque to spec.

Fred W said:

+1 - to the grinder with those tools. Just be sure to grind it veeeeery sloooowly so you do not over-heat the bit and ruin the tempered hardening.

As to why they make them that way? My guess is that it makes it easier to fit the tool into the fastener quickly. IME quickly is seldom the best way.

FYI... I believe that what we are actually talking about getting "stripped" are item #8 in the illustrated parts breakdown, aka "Pad Pins" part number 3P6-25924-00-00 and list for $32.87 each

The torque spec for those is 12 ft-lbs. My guess is that your torque wrench may be incapable of accurately measuring 12 ft lbs. Anything with this low of a torque spec doesn't really need to be torqued. They are just in there to retain the brake pads. On the first gen, they are just clevis pinned into place (no threads)

The caliper bolts that everyone else is talking about in this thread, i.e. the fasteners that hold the caliper to the fork leg, are hex head bolts with a 29 ft-lb torque spec. Those are the bolts that you need to remove to take off the calipers for wheel removal. Those fasteners you do want to torque to spec.

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on my '04, it's even more tricky to get a good "bite" with the 6 point socket etc because the amber reflectors are in the way

Fred W said:

FYI... I believe that what we are actually talking about getting "stripped" are item #8 in the illustrated parts breakdown, aka "Pad Pins" part number 3P6-25924-00-00 and list for $32.87 each

The torque spec for those is 12 ft-lbs. My guess is that your torque wrench may be incapable of accurately measuring 12 ft lbs. Anything with this low of a torque spec doesn't really need to be torqued. They are just in there to retain the brake pads. On the first gen, they are just clevis pinned into place (no threads)

The caliper bolts that everyone else is talking about in this thread, i.e. the fasteners that hold the caliper to the fork leg, are hex head bolts with a 29 ft-lb torque spec. Those are the bolts that you need to remove to take off the calipers for wheel removal. Those fasteners you do want to torque to spec.

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Item number 8 on your link is correct. In the Gen 2 Service manual it is chapter 4, page 29 and item number 3 lableled "brake pad bolt"

I was hoping to torque it with my Park Tool TW-1 torque wrench that was recommended by some grease monkeys at advrider.com. However, it only goes to 60 INCH pounds max which is only 5 FOOT pounds so I used my other beam style torque wrench that goes from 0-90 foot pounds.....probably not so accurate at the lower torque range.

Mantra:

Don't need to torque anything that isn't squeezing a gasket or bearing, or holding pressure. You know when something's tight.