Look what followed me home today.

Left home today with this one.



And returned with this one. No more coveting of others red FJRs.

Sweet, congrats on the new ES!

--G

Well? You are pretty much obligated to give us a back to back suspension comparison. You are one of the few who should be able to completely evaluate the difference.

No pressure here but... What you tell us may be the deciding factor in whether or not we should spend that extra thousand dollars.

Awesome! I like it. Way nicer color, IMHO, but I've had a Yamaha of that color for almost 5 years now

twisted said:

Awesome! I like it. Way nicer color, IMHO, but I've had a Yamaha of that color for almost 5 years now

Click to expand...

Ya, I had a red 08 FZ1 also. Didn't end so well.

Whoa! My FZ1 ended up totaled, also, but it didn't look that bad. Did you come out of that OK?

twisted said:

Whoa! My FZ1 ended up totaled, also, but it didn't look that bad. Did you come out of that OK?

Click to expand...

Broken bone in my neck, broken ankle and a little nick on my left thigh. My riding gear held up well on the 225 foot slide, but unfortunately I was only wearing jeans that day.

Redfish Hunter said:

Well? You are pretty much obligated to give us a back to back suspension comparison. You are one of the few who should be able to completely evaluate the difference.
No pressure here but... What you tell us may be the deciding factor in whether or not we should spend that extra thousand dollars.

Click to expand...

I still have my '13 and ride it back to back with the ES.....is the ES worth an extra thousand dollars.....NO.....but the inverted fork is. When Yamaha puts the inverted fork on the A model it will out perform the ES, which currently is like having very good, but non-adjustable suspension.

Okay, I am willing to be educated.

I have quite a few miles on Dad's Gen2 with factory suspension. I have a 14 mile demo ride on the '14 ES. I am NOT a suspension expert.

I have no issues with OEM Gen2 suspension. I was blown away by the ES. The changes in damping brought about immediate results that were real world useful and I could easily see myself making those changes while on a ride. The preload changes were obvious as well and I would certainly use them based on bike load but not so much during a ride as before the ride.

I found the ES to be much more controlled than the Gen2. Everything seemed more solid, smoother, less harsh, more controlled.

Why do you say the inverted fork is worth more than that immediate and wide range of adjustability?

Abercrombie FJR said:

twisted said:

Whoa! My FZ1 ended up totaled, also, but it didn't look that bad. Did you come out of that OK?

Click to expand...

Broken bone in my neck, broken ankle and a little nick on my left thigh. My riding gear held up well on the 225 foot slide, but unfortunately I was only wearing jeans that day.

Click to expand...

Ouch! Stuffed mine under the back bumper of a pickup. I stepped off with a broken arm. Almost had it stopped, but not quite. Buckled the frame.

Do like the red, though, they are nice looking bikes.

Just my input on whether the extra $1000 is worth it...... Both the ES and A have 1.0 spring rates up front, but the ES cannot adjust front preload..... so, first thing to do is check sag and see if you need to add shims to the front end (if you are a heavyweight over 200-210 lbs). As for the rear, the spring rate will suit most, but again check sag, etc. Heavyweights are going to find it iffy. The A model has a much higher rear spring rate, but it is the hard/soft lever adjustment only. Most of the time I'd say you're OK with soft on a Gen III, and would use hard for two up. You may not need to go aftermarket on a rear shock. The ES however could use a better spring IMHO, and heaven help you down the road should you have to replace a leaky shock (big bucks).

As for upside down forks, somebody would have to convince me that one would really notice a difference in handling, etc. other than the sexy look. If you like playing with buttons, and think you would do so frequently, then you'll like the ES. I personally wouldn't likely do much of that after the initial setup, but it's your wallet.

Ditto the above comment!

I think until you have a bike with the ability to adjust the suspension such as the ES model you won't appreciate the option. Now you can adjust it as road and riding conditions change, not so much as set it and forget it.

As for the $1k option, there have been some very good deals on ES models and I don't think many pay MSRP(list price).

Nice bike Abercrombie! Was that the one in WI?

Congrats to the op!

RaYzerman19 said:

...The A model has a much higher rear spring rate, but it is the hard/soft lever adjustment only. Most of the time I'd say you're OK with soft on a Gen III, and would use hard for two up. ....

Click to expand...

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I understood that the "hard/soft" on the Gen II is a preload adjustment, the "hard/standard/soft" on a Gen III is damping, the preload being done with the "Rider-only/rider-with-luggage/two-up/two-up-with-luggage".
With my not-very-portly 145 pounds, I find "rider-only", then soft on highways, and hard on twisties or bad surfaces. I rarely use "standard". (I've not yet started playing with the "+/-3" damping modifiers.)

CONGRATS! nice big jump (year) trade-up! ...enjoy, she's a pretty machine!

I don't have an FJR ES, but I do have the ES on my '14 Beem. I probably use the pre-load (weight; riders and luggage) adjustment most frequently. When sport riding, and rebound is an issue, I simply call up the ride control (to road or sport modes) as I usually ride in comfort/soft mode. Works very nicely, the OTF adjustment is just easy and handy for totally different types of rides. (again, FJR ES guys may have a different experience, but I think they are pretty close to my view on this).

Now since I've never had it before on any of my bikes, I didn't think I needed it either (like others have mentioned^). Now that I have it, I now deem it as a necessity in all (my) future bikes. Call it gizmo spoiled, rider-lazy or what have you, it's an advancement that I really like.

Redfish Hunter said:

Okay, I am willing to be educated.
I have quite a few miles on Dad's Gen2 with factory suspension. I have a 14 mile demo ride on the '14 ES. I am NOT a suspension expert.

I have no issues with OEM Gen2 suspension. I was blown away by the ES. The changes in damping brought about immediate results that were real world useful and I could easily see myself making those changes while on a ride. The preload changes were obvious as well and I would certainly use them based on bike load but not so much during a ride as before the ride.

I found the ES to be much more controlled than the Gen2. Everything seemed more solid, smoother, less harsh, more controlled.

Why do you say the inverted fork is worth more than that immediate and wide range of adjustability?

Click to expand...

I can't offer a education, just my impressions after 1300 miles of ES ownership. I also had a GEN1, GEN2, and still have a '13A. The GEN1 had the GP Suspension fork rebuild and a Wilbers shock, both of which were eventually moved to the GEN2 and I thought worked better in the GEN2 than the GEN1. I just traded that bike, a 2008, for the ES, so my impressions are pretty current and I can certainly understand why you were blown away by the ES.

The ES is more solid, smoother, less harsh, more controlled and that is due to heavier spring rates, greatly improved damping, and the increased rigidity of the inverted forks. The '13A has the heavier spring rates and improved damping but does not have the inverted fork. The ES also has the smoothest engine of any FJR I have ever ridden and that contributes to the overall ride quality and refinement.

The 4 preload adjustments are great if they fit your needs. The solo plus luggage fits my weight and riding style when I am solo, I need more preload when I actually have luggage but going to 2-up doesn't work very well because the damping settings offered with that preload have too much damping. On the '13 I can switch to the hard spring setting, make a minor adjustment to the damping, and I am ready to go. The ES requires me to choose between slow steering or a less plush ride.

After dozens of trials on about every road surface available, I think the solo plus luggage preload and the STD 0 damping fits me the best and it is very good. However, the range of damping from SOFT -3 to Hard +3 is actually very narrow and several of the magazine testers have made similar comments. I can notice a small improvement in ride quality by switching to the SOFT setting on very smooth road surfaces but any advantage in that setting disappears quickly when you encounter a bump. I haven't found a use for the HARD setting, I can't detect any improvement in handling. Again, the range of adjustment is very narrow, and if someone else was controlling the damping I wouldn't be able to detect when the damping was changed and would not have any idea of what setting was being used, any road surface I ride on will have greater changes in any given mile than the damping variance offered for that preload.

I've been testing the damping settings for 1300 miles and am just going to use the STD 0 and hope that the ride quality stays the same as the suspension and oil ages. I have ridden 5 BMWs and 3 Ducatis with electronic suspensions and the damping changes are very noticeable when you change the damping, this doesn't mean that those changes are improvements, but I could certainly feel the change. When I change the ES damping there doesn't appear to be any immediate change at all, I have to ride a while and then make a very subjective evaluation of the change. I know other have reported otherwise, but my evaluations are pretty consistent with what the moto-journalists have reported.

I think the ES is a significant improvement over the '13 due to its smoother motor and inverted fork and also appears to be a "tighter" package and more refined. I have not ridden a '14A and it also may be an improvement over the '13. I know there are a lot of doubters concerning the valve added of the inverted fork, but I also have a C14 with an inverted fork that is more stable than the '13 at speed, cornering, and in winds; but not any better than the ES under the same conditions.

I really like the ES but at this point cannot see any additional value from the ES itself. I would much prefer to have fully adjustable suspension that I can fine tune rather than a lot of preset damping combinations where I am searching for the one that seems to work the best.

mcatrophy said:

RaYzerman19 said:

...The A model has a much higher rear spring rate, but it is the hard/soft lever adjustment only. Most of the time I'd say you're OK with soft on a Gen III, and would use hard for two up. ....

Click to expand...

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I understood that the "hard/soft" on the Gen II is a preload adjustment, the "hard/standard/soft" on a Gen III is damping, the preload being done with the "Rider-only/rider-with-luggage/two-up/two-up-with-luggage".
With my not-very-portly 145 pounds, I find "rider-only", then soft on highways, and hard on twisties or bad surfaces. I rarely use "standard". (I've not yet started playing with the "+/-3" damping modifiers.)

Click to expand...

The hard/soft on the GEN1, GEN2, and the GEN3 A models is not a preload adjustment all though everyone, including Yamaha calls it a preload. Those shocks have two springs that work in series in the soft position but only one working spring in the hard position. The result is two very different spring rates, neither of which has a preload adjustment. Its a true dual rate system that works very well if the individual spring rates fit the needs of the rider when riding solo or 2-up. The GEN1 and GEN2 shocks were badly under sprung for all but the lightest riders, the GEN3 shock is made for the big boys.

MCRIDER007 said:

I can't offer a education, just my impressions after 1300 miles of ownership.

The ES is more solid, smoother, less harsh, more controlled and that is due to heavier spring rates, greatly improved damping, and the increased rigidity of the inverted forks. The '13A has the heavier spring rates and improved damping but does not have the inverted fork. The ES also has the smoothest engine of any FJR I have ever ridden and that contributes to the overall ride quality and refinement.

The 4 preload adjustments are great if they fit your needs. The solo plus luggage fits my weight and riding style when I am solo, I need more preload when I actually have luggage but going to 2-up doesn't work very well because the damping settings offered with that preload have too much damping. On the '13 I can switch to the hard spring setting, make a minor adjustment to the damping, and I am ready to go. The ES requires me to choose between slow steering or a less plush ride.

However, the range of damping from SOFT -3 to Hard +3 is actually very narrow and several of the magazine testers have made similar comments. I can notice a small improvement in ride quality by switching to the SOFT setting on very smooth road surfaces but any advantage in that setting disappears quickly when you encounter a bump. I haven't found a use for the HARD setting, I can't detect any improvement in handling. Again, the range of adjustment is very narrow, and if someone else was controlling the damping I wouldn't be able to detect when the damping was changed and would not have any idea of what setting was being used, any road surface I ride on will have greater changes in any given mile than the damping variance offered for that preload.

I think the ES is a significant improvement over the '13 due to its smoother motor and inverted fork and also appears to be a "tighter" package and more refined. I have not ridden a '14A and it also may be an improvement over the '13. I know there are a lot of doubters concerning the valve added of the inverted fork, but I also have a C14 with an inverted fork that is more stable than the '13 at speed, cornering, and in winds; but not any better than the ES under the same conditions.

I really like the ES but at this point cannot see any additional value from the ES itself. I would much prefer to have fully adjustable suspension that I can fine tune rather than a lot of preset damping combinations where I am searching for the one that seems to work the best.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the detailed and clear response. I know from prior threads and posts that you know a great deal more about suspension than I do, that is why I wanted your evaluation. I appreciate it.

I have to wonder if all FJRs are created equal...

I am not a great rider and I will never be called upon to do magazine evaluations or give Rossi tips on improving his cornering skills. However, my relatively brief (14 mile) demo ride allowed me time to play with the damping settings and the difference for me was stunning. I went from '58 Buick floating to '14 BMW M3 taut with just a couple of button pushes. The damping settings made a huge difference. It was most noticeable on braking and acceleration as the bike would nose dive and squat or remain almost level depending on my choices. I was astonished that I could accomplish so much with just damping, in my ignorance I assumed that spring preload would have the greatest effect.

I can honestly say that my skill level, courage, and the dynamic of the demo ride did not allow me to explore the benefits of the inverted fork.