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Stator for 2009 FJR AE

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Does anybody have a stator for a 2009 FJR1300 (I believe 2006-2010 will work)? Any suggestions on where I can find one? Any salvage yards that specialize in Yamaha and/or FJR?

Ricks and Electrosport don't have them. The three Yamaha warehouses in the US are all back ordered with estimated delivery of Oct 21.

The part number is 3P6-81410-00-00. Partzilla lists it at $256, but Partzilla and every supplier I checked does not stock the part, they get it directly from Yamaha.

I found one at a salvage yard in the midwest for $245 + $20 shipping, which seems high. My bike will run and keep the battery charged, but I can only use one headlight.

Thanks for your help.

 
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Have you looked in to the possibility of having your existing stator rewound?.................

Should be a simple job for any competent rewind shop.

 
Before you commit to having your stator rewound have a read of this cautionary tale

Bottom line - do not use Electrosport they do not appear to have a good reputation. There are a number of recommendations at the bottom of the report.

 
Thank you Donal!! The cautionary tale is hugely helpful!!

I talked to Ricks about a rewind and it takes about two weeks including shipping both ways. I found another used stator for $170, $70 cheaper than the other one I found. Since I use my bike almost every day, I have ordered that. Depending on its condition I will decide whether to have mine rewound.

I appreciate your suggestion that it should be a simple job for any *competent* rewind shop! It seems that competent can change periodically, maybe depending on who is doing the work. I have heard of Ricks stators failing, hopefully a low percentage, but the cautionary tale clues me what to look for in evaluating either the used stator or a rewind job.

 
If it helps, I'm happy
rolleyes.gif


 
...Bottom line - do not use Electrosport they do not appear to have a good reputation. There are a number of recommendations at the bottom of the report.
Talking with Rick's (a couple of miles from my house) they say that any high output stator will have a shorter life. Ricks says that a stator like Electorsport's Gen I part which makes 100W more power than the OEM will probably have a life of less than 40k miles. Indeed, I have fried 2 Electrosport stators, both well under 40k miles. Then I got smart and put my OEM stator back in and trimmed back on the electrofarkles.

A 1:1 rewind should have a long life. Coil winding isn't an exact science, there are many techniques and wire patterns that can be wound on the core and still get equal power output, plus there are many choices of material. The winding technique can make a huge difference in part life as well as materials like double or triple build wire with high quality Polyester/Polyamideimid coating material.

 
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Regarding electrosport, I used one of their regulators when my stock yamaha regulator failed on the road. It lasted about 500 miles and then failed. They supplied me with another one, which lasted 1000 miles and then failed. Both were installed at a Yamaha shop, one in Albuquerque and the other in Denver. Both shops did an electrical diagnosis and found the stator and the rest of the electrical system to be good, and the regulator to be bad.

After the second failure I did my own diagnosis on the stator. It passes continuity and short to ground tests, and generates 60 volts AC on all three phases. However the winding resistance is 0.6 ohms, where the factory spec calls for 1.3-1.9 ohms. I am currently assuming that some of the windings are shorted together, possibly as a result of overheating. That is why I am replacing it.

 
Donal, I saw a previous posting by you where you mentioned that you live close to Ricks. The higher output comments are very interesting. To me, you have tradeoffs. If you want more power out of the stator, you have to add more windings. This using the same wire and making the stator larger (fatter), which some companies do. Or you can use a thinner wire and have a reduced safety margin on the carrying capacity of the wire, or you can use the same wire and a thinner insulation risking burnthrough. If you use a higher quality insulation it is possible that you can use thinner insulation, but your manufacturing techniques have to be higher tolerance to insure that the insulation is evenly applied. Anyway I am probably going to use your approach and give up on some electrical load. I haven't needed a heated vest so far. If I add lights, I plan on using LEDs. Right now my highest draw is my Philips 60W headlight bulbs, which draw 5 amps each.

 
FWIW, and IMO, ohming stator wire continuity is not a good method to check stators using home level meters. Even a 4 1/2 digit meter isn't really up to the job. If each phase is within a couple of volts of each other and there is essentially infinite resistance to ground then the stator is good. To measure wire resistance professionally I use Kelvin 4 wire meters or other specialized lab equipment.

Edit: While I was typing the OP was posting.

Winding coils with heavy gauge wire is a wrestling match. If you use too much force the wire stretches then you don't get the calculated current flow. If you bend the wire roughly or use sharp bends it stresses or compromises the insulation. You can use high quality insulation that resists heat and chemicals but it can be too brittle for some winding methods. The best insulation that can take tough winding, including edge winding/coining without breakdown from the process but it is expensive.

 
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Donal, I saw a previous posting by you where you mentioned that you live close to Ricks. The higher output comments are very interesting. To me, you have tradeoffs. If you want more power out of the stator, you have to add more windings. This using the same wire and making the stator larger (fatter), which some companies do. Or you can use a thinner wire and have a reduced safety margin on the carrying capacity of the wire, or you can use the same wire and a thinner insulation risking burnthrough. If you use a higher quality insulation it is possible that you can use thinner insulation, but your manufacturing techniques have to be higher tolerance to insure that the insulation is evenly applied. Anyway I am probably going to use your approach and give up on some electrical load. I haven't needed a heated vest so far. If I add lights, I plan on using LEDs. Right now my highest draw is my Philips 60W headlight bulbs, which draw 5 amps each.

Actually that was Ionbeam in post no. 6. I would like to think that I might come up with something intelligent occasionally but...............

For my money I would just have the stator rewound to the original specs and manage the additional loads to maintain the battery voltage (just like Ionbeam recommended).

 
Did you ever put your test leads at the voltage regulator output and compare that with the voltage across the battery terminals? The bike should be running over 2k rpm. It may be that the bike's main wire harness has the creeping resistance disease that Don Carver identified.

Worth a check.

Brodie

:)

 
OK, I haven't been posting, but I have been sleuthing.

1. I checked the regulator output (red black) as Brodie suggested - its 14.2 at about 3K rpm (yea!!). This compares to 13.2 volts across the red and black at the battery. So who ate the missing volt? As discussed below, I discovered I am losing 0.5 volts in each of the wires (red and black) leading between the regulator/rectifier and the battery, for 1.0 volts total. Until I find out otherwise, I am assuming that this is due to CRD (Creeping Resistance Disease).

2. I also measured the voltage between the fuse block and the battery. This is 12.7 volts. So 14.2 V at the regulator, 13.2 volts across the battery, and 12.7 volts between the fuse block (positive) and the battery (negative).

3. Does anybody know the FJR circuit well enough to tell me if there is another long lead between the battery and the fuse block? It seems like it would be a short lead since the fuse block is so close to the battery.

4. Also, Is there some common point that would cause all of this resistance? (Battery terminals are clean, so are regulator terminals).

5. I am tempted to use the old technique of poking my multimeter test lead through the insulation of various wires to try to localize the resistance (measuring voltage drop, as discussed below). I suspect that CRD is caused by capillary action which wicks water into the wires and caused corrosion, probably towards the ends. If I use the probe through the insulation technique, will I make things worse? How tiny of a probe do I have to use?

6. Other thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks,

Jeff

Here is a more detailed discussion of my diagnostic techniques and learning process:

A. As IonBeam suggested, my multimeter resistance measurements on the stator were useless to tell me whether the stator windings have the factory specified resistance of 1.3 to 1.9 volts. Reading online verifies that typical affordable multimeters cannot measure low resistance accurately (unless you build an auxiliary circuit). (The measurements *do* verify that there isn't an open in any of the three phases.

B. Two Yamaha dealers checked the resistance in the red lead from the regulator to the battery and declared the connection to be good. IMO the same low resistance rule applies -- the multimeters will show continuity, but will not give an accurate determination of whether CRD (Creeping Resistance Disease) exists.

C. A more effective technique I remembered is to measure voltage drop along a wire. You put the red lead of your multimeter on the red output of the regulator and the black lead on the red terminal of the battery. When I did this I measured 0.5 V, which means I am losing half a volt due to resistance in the positive wire.

D. Once I found the missing 0.5 volt, I wondered where the other 0.5 volts went. After a great deal of pondering I decided to measure the black wire, and the voltage drop was 0.5 volts there also. Since current has to go up to the battery and back, the resistances are additive, and resistance in both wires explains my missing 1.0 volts. My mistake in not looking at the black wire is because I assumed that the FJR chassis would carry some of the return current in parallel with the black wire, as used to be the case in automotive systems. (Remember the braided ground wires from the battery to the frame and engine?).


 
Two parts to the problem.

Part 1: The voltage drop between the R/R and the battery will be proportional to current draw. If no current is flowing there will be no voltage drop. When running, the motorcycle itself will be consuming ~300 watts; at 14 volts that's about 22 amps. If you have any other items that draw current then the running load is greater, resulting in a bigger voltage drop.

Part 2: The voltage drops are an accumulation of a lot of little things. First is simply the voltage drop along the length of the wire itself. Every place the wire is cut and crimped to a pin, the pin connects to a pin, that has a wire crimp, you loose a tiny bit of voltage. The contacts in the key switch have a voltage drop. Even the main fuse has a crimp/fuse/crimp voltage drop. The 14 ga. R/R wires (on my Gen I) go to terminals on the starter relay where they join the heavy gauge battery wires with a nut torqued down on the post to join all the wires together. This goes to the battery where -- the wire is crimped to the battery lug. Every one of the wire interruptions will have a tiny voltage drop.

Plan A: Take a look at the harness that DCarver is using which eliminates all the drops and uses a wire size that is actually excessive for the job.

So, where does the voltage go? Pffftt into a little cloud of electrons?
wink.png
Every place there is a voltage drop there will be heat. After a long ride you can actually find significant voltage drops simply by feeling for heat. The ignition switch, at the bottom where the contacts are gets hot. Check the wires where the terminals connect to the battery, hot? I dunno but suspect yes. The R/R runs so hot that you probably won't be able to feel resistance caused heat. Even the wire itself can get hot. That is what the wire table is about when it tells you that a 16 ga wire can be used up to 6 feet at 10 amps, it is based on the temperature rise of the wire.

Caution below --
Explode.jpg


In some areas of electrical design I have to treat the wire as if it were a very low value resistor in the calculations. In the case of wires like the stator it is just done a bit backwards. In conventional electronics resistances are pretty big and we use normal units. When dealing with very tiny resistance like the wires in the stator I may choose to use units of conduction instead of units of resistance. Simply, units of conduction are 1/R (the reciprocal of ohms). These units are called mho's (ohms spelled backwards) and in the SI system the units are called siemens. When you absolutely need to account for every loss in a system this is were you need to go. They make meters that have 4 or more wires that can be setup in a bridge which cancels out wire resistance so you can make true resistance measurements of very tiny values.

 
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"They make meters that have 4 or more wires that can be setup in a bridge which cancels out wire resistance so you can make true resistance measurements of very tiny values."

Ah, the good old Wheatstone bridge, haven't seen one of those since the early sixties!..............

 
I got an e-mail from the OP concerning the problem he is encountering on his '09 AE. I'm taking the liberty posting my answer here for posterity sake...

______________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________________

Hi Jeff

Congratulations on the purchase and trip home on your "new" Advanced Edition FJR. Yamaha made a solid platform back in 2003, and I think the AE is the best model, I'm enjoying the heck out of mine.

Judging from your messages, I think the stator on your bike is just fine. Since it puts out 14.2 volts at the voltage regulator output you need to look elsewhere for the losses. You have stumbled upon the week link in this bike. The voltage regulator is 6.5 feet away from the battery terminals. There are several breaks in the copper wire going to (red) and from (black) the battery. Any one of these crimped connections can cause resistance over time. To make matters worse, the wire size is small, in my opinion, for the load it is intended to carry. I have the harness from my wrecked bike (88744 miles old) and have opened it up. What struck me was the color of the copper on this main circuit… it looks dark, like the wire got warm. Any time a wire gets warm from the electrical load, its because of resistance.

My thoughts are that the manufactures build these production bikes with a delicate balance of compromises built in. In this case, if the wires are sized just big enough, there will be a savings on the cost of copper wire over the many thousands of units built. When new it works just fine. However, when bikes age these issues crop up. I found that to be true when I built and installed both my Grounding Harness, and Ignition Relay Harness on several bikes of various ages and upkeep. The neat thing about making these aftermarket wiring harness, I can size the wires big to carry the extra load with much lower voltage drop for the lengths involved.

Good news, there is a kit that you can buy that will bypass the aging wire run providing a much lower voltage drop at the battery terminals. Several of us have installed it with good results. Your bike seems to be a good candidate for this kit. More good news, this kit is a lot cheaper than a new stator.

Super_harness_cb_wb_irf.jpg
This is all you need to see 14 volts at your battery terminals.

Super harness with 30 amp circuit breaker.

This kit can be purchased at Roadstercycle.com. You don't need a new voltage regulator, nor do you need to hook up the grey 3 wire connector. The alternator lead on your bike is performing well, leave it alone. You need the custom Yamaha FJR version for the extra wire length.

As for the other harnesses that I have made in the past, Yamaha has a redesigned ignition switch that your bike has been fitted with. Yamaha also came out with a recall for the grounding junction block issue. Make sure your bike has all it's recalls done - check with your dealer service department and have them do a vin number search.

Good luck, and enjoy your bike. Perhaps our paths may cross here in the San Jose Bay Area.

Brodie

rolleyes.gif


Many thanks to Don Carver and his thread which documented the situation.

 
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Many thanks to Brodie, ionbeam, and Donal for their contributions to this thread. I started this thread looking for a stator, which is why I posted in the classified forum. I have additional problems, and I am going to post in one of the discussion forums. To close this out, here is what I have done:

1) As Brodie suggested, I do not need a stator. I had previously replaced the R/R and the battery, so for me the next logical step was the stator. I obtained a stator from a salvage yard, and I talked to Rick's about getting my stator re-wound. My problem is intermittent, and Rick's said that stator problems are typically not intermittent, but that the best way to tell for sure was to take a look Because I have the part, I pulled the cover off and the stator looks fine.

2) I ran red and black 12 Ga wires from the R/R to the battery, just flopping them over the tank. I bought a clamp type ammeter. With both fans running and the battery somewhat low, I saw 38 amps steady, 14.2 volts at the regulator, and 13.2 volts at the battery @3-4K RPM. Because the alternator is only capable of approximately 42 amps, the ability to generate 38 amps with the regulator holding 14.2 completed the proof that the stator is good, and that my problem is a voltage drop in the wiring harness.

3) I followed Brodie's suggestion and ordered a 10 ga R/R to battery wiring harness from Jack at RoadsterCycle.com. I have received that part and have tested the system with the harness loosely installed. I could not run long enough to activate the fans, but I saw 26 amps and 13.98 at the battery, both at idle and at 3-4K RPM. As ionbeam pointed out, voltage drop is proportional to current, so I need to double check at a higher load, but this is the best I have seen and certainly adequate to run the bike.

I have some installation question about the harness which I will post in the appropriate forum.

Please consider this thread closed, unless somebody else has questions about what I have done.

 
Warning - I haven't read this entire thread, only the OP. Hold your flames.

I just wanted to mention that I have the stator from Patriot's GenI grenade motor. If anybody can confirm that it fits, I'll happily send it to StarLord for the special price of FREE!

 
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{hppants Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:15 AM}
...I just wanted to mention that I have the stator from Patriot's GenI grenade motor. If anybody can confirm that it fits, I'll happily send it to StarLord for the special price of FREE!
The Gen I charging system is 490 watts; the Gen II charging system is 590 watts.

 
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Thanks for the offer hppants, but as ionbeam has mentioned the stator will not work.

If anybody is still following this thread, as I mentioned above, I now have an extra Gen II stator which I obtained from a salvage yard. This stator is for sale, and I will advertise it in its own posting in the near future.

 
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