Resolved!: Screwed up big -- trusted the dealer for the first valve check

I knew better. Delegation is the most sincere way to show you don't care how something turns out, and I delegated my valve clearance check to a local dealer. They (Central Florida Powersports in the Orlando area) have great Google and Angie's List reviews, and my old Concours really wore me out on pulling valve covers, so I thought I could get away just this once with paying someone else to do work I really didn't want to -- but, of course, I was wrong.

At the end of day one (on a 4 hours job...) service writer calls to say they had to adjust at least a couple of valves that were 'loose'. Loose? Who the heck ever finds loose valves? Hair on the back of my neck stood up pretty much immediately, the phrase 'Crap' comes to mind, and I start to feel the inklings of serious trepidation.

Crap

Crap

Crap

So day one ends with no additional information. No phone call, nothing.

Crap

Day two, I wait till they've been open 15 whole minutes before calling. Am told bike is basically done, tech is buttoning it up and going for a test ride. O.K., maybe I've been terrified for nothing. If only...

Next call doesn't come for three hours -- just as I'm about to call them with a WTFO? Service writer asks me about how the bike was running when I brought it in. Really? It was running superbly -- I only brought it in because the manual says to and I bought the extended warranty.

Service writer notes that I had some stumbling issues early on. Yes, I did, but then we raised the idle to 1050, and it's been great ever since. Apparently, the tech did everything just right, but now the bike won't idle. I, of course, suspect the cam timing has been blown. Service writer calls back after speaking with Tech, and says they are taking it back apart to double check their work -- but now it won't be until Monday before I know if they can figure out what they did wrong.

Just friggin fabulous.

If it runs fine other than it won't idle, he skipped one tooth on crank sprocket. I've seen this exact scenario before.

I would take the precaution of letting them know that hours required to fix their mistake are on their dime. It's rare to need any shim adjustment on the first check and really unusual that it would be loose rather than tight. (exhaust or intake side?). The fact it doesn't idle after completion is clearly a timing issue. They hopefully got lucky and it's only one tooth

First of all, I hope they waited until the engine was cooled (to room temperature) before measuring clearances. If it is due to wear, valves almost always end out "tighter" rather than "looser". Tight or loose referring to the gap between the bucket and cam lobe.

I agree with SkooterG - very likely they messed up the cam timing. Very easy to do. Always a possibility that the throttle body synch is WAYYY off or one of the vacuum caps is MIA after they did the work. I hope they are not charging you to take it apart to see where they screwed up. Even if they find a mistake and fix it, I would expect them to tell you that everything was/is good.

I do all of this stuff myself. Its not too bad once you have done it once. Not to say that I'm a better tech than an experienced guy at the shop but I guarantee that I am more careful and will take the time to make SURE it's right.

If the engine was too warm when they checked them they would have been tight, not loose.

Even after they fix the timing problem that they created, I'd probably be taking it apart to find out what the valve clearances really are.

Unless the only valves that they say were loose were exhaust valves, and you tend to baby your engine a lot (and build up carbon on the valve faces), I wouldn't be prone to believing them that they were too loose.

Not sure what to advise other than whenever they claim they have things correct, you will need to verify their work.

I decided not to trust my now defunct Yamaha dealer when I saw the shop was fulll of dirt bikes, side-by-sides, boats and teenaged techs.

I dropped the bike off via trailer, just to be sure the engine was cool enough. Hans, the service writer, started the motor during sign-in, which surprised me, but he said it wasn't run long enough to effect the measurements. It started right up, of course, but I suspect Hans has already forgotten that.

I trusted dealer techs a few times with my Concours, and it was always a mistake. My favorite with the dealer who charged me for NGK spark plugs, but left the Nippondensos in the head. That, or the one who bent my brake rotor with a wheel clamp. Ugh!

I'm fully equipped and knowledgeable on mechanics, but short on wrench time this time of the year, so had hoped, foolishly, to trade money for time.

Interesting side note: I ordered all the gaskets and O-rings from BikeBandit to take with me, so the dealer wouldn't have to wait on something to come in. Yesterday (Saturday), after the phone call noting it would be Monday at the earliest, the mailman dropped off a box that contained a second full set of gaskets and such. So, should I decide to open the bike up to check everything for myself (rather likely at this point) I'm covered for any soft parts.

Never, never, never again. And Central Florida Powersports' Google and Angie's list reviews are unilkely to be glowing...

Fred W said:

If the engine was too warm when they checked them they would have been tight, not loose.
Even after they fix the timing problem that they created, I'd probably be taking it apart to find out what the valve clearances really are.

Unless the only valves that they say were loose were exhaust valves, and you tend to baby your engine a lot (and build up carbon on the valve faces), I wouldn't be prone to believing them that they were too loose.

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THIS, Personally, I would listen to whatever Fred says........

I don't for one second doubt the shop blew it. That is one thing I really don't like about the FJR. For any work like valve check/adjust you can easily be SOL if you aren't capable or just don't want to do the work yourself for whatever reason. I don't know what I would do if something came up I couldn't handle or didn't want to handle. I have no problem doing the valve check/adjustment but thats me.

I really don't want or need to own two motorcycles so have been trying to decide which of my two bikes to part with and for different reasons dealer support being one of them I am leaning towards selling the FJR and keeping the BMW R1100RSL. When it comes to ease of working on these two bikes the BMW wins most of the time. Yes I know how much fun it can be to replace the dry clutch on the beemer but at least there is a dealer that I would trust unconditionally without any hesitation. Might cost a few bucks but competence is a non-issue. All of the many Yamaha dealers anywhere near me just don't know their way around an FJR. How could they? They never see one, duhhh.

What about finding a small independent shop close to your home? I'm less than enthralled with my area Yamaha dealership but there is a small independent less than 2 miles from my house and the owner is a major league gear head. One of those crazies that used to run a blown alcohol injected big block Chevy in a tubbed and tube framed Camaro on the street. Pretty well versed in all kinds of engines and has some machine shop equipment of his own so he's not subbing it out. Very fussy when int comes to engines and fanatic about stuff like clearances and getting things right. He's also quick to turn away work that he knows isn't his strength like chasing down electrical issues.

I prefer to do as much of my own stuff as possible but like the OP accept the fact that I don't always have the time or sometimes tools or knowledge too complete certain tasks.

I really don't want or need to own two motorcycles so have been trying to decide which of my two bikes to part with and for different reasons dealer support being one of them I am leaning towards selling the FJR and keeping the BMW R1100RSL. When it comes to ease of working on these two bikes the BMW wins most of the time.

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While I technically do not even need one motorcycle, I can't really understand not wanting as many as you can afford.

Being a past owner of a BMW R1100RS, I can understand the allure of that particular model. I loved the suspension on that bike, but the power delivery is relatively tame, and clunky transmission was agricultural (as in tractor-like), in comparison to an FJR.

Still, it has a lot more "character" than the Asian bikes, is very comfortable to ride, and handles well, especially the rougher roads that the FJR isn't so keen on. And with the heads sticking out in the air, valve checks are trivial. I can see someone going with that as their one and only.

When it comes right down to it, for people that don't have the desire or capability to do their own work, the supporting service people are a lot more important than anything else about the bike(s) they own.

You can always toss the dice and say fook it till next time.

Just sayin,

Dave

BkerChuck said:

What about finding a small independent shop close to your home? I'm less than enthralled with my area Yamaha dealership but there is a small independent less than 2 miles from my house and the owner is a major league gear head. One of those crazies that used to run a blown alcohol injected big block Chevy in a tubbed and tube framed Camaro on the street. Pretty well versed in all kinds of engines and has some machine shop equipment of his own so he's not subbing it out. Very fussy when int comes to engines and fanatic about stuff like clearances and getting things right. He's also quick to turn away work that he knows isn't his strength like chasing down electrical issues.
I prefer to do as much of my own stuff as possible but like the OP accept the fact that I don't always have the time or sometimes tools or knowledge too complete certain tasks.

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+1^ And as Chuck alluded to many of these shops might rather not deal with the trivial stuff like plastic things that get in the way and break. Sounds like the OP probably knows this already but sometimes it can work out for both sides if the owner can strip off the tupperware or anything else in the way, trailer (ride?) the bike over and then bring it home to put it all lovingly back together again. Shop can get right to what they're good at and owner might be able to keep the bill down.

BigOgre said:

BkerChuck said:

What about finding a small independent shop close to your home? I'm less than enthralled with my area Yamaha dealership but there is a small independent less than 2 miles from my house and the owner is a major league gear head. One of those crazies that used to run a blown alcohol injected big block Chevy in a tubbed and tube framed Camaro on the street. Pretty well versed in all kinds of engines and has some machine shop equipment of his own so he's not subbing it out. Very fussy when int comes to engines and fanatic about stuff like clearances and getting things right. He's also quick to turn away work that he knows isn't his strength like chasing down electrical issues.
I prefer to do as much of my own stuff as possible but like the OP accept the fact that I don't always have the time or sometimes tools or knowledge too complete certain tasks.

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+1^ And as Chuck alluded to many of these shops might rather not deal with the trivial stuff like plastic things that get in the way and break. Sounds like the OP probably knows this already but sometimes it can work out for both sides if the owner can strip off the tupperware or anything else in the way, trailer (ride?) the bike over and then bring it home to put it all lovingly back together again. Shop can get right to what they're good at and owner might be able to keep the bill down.

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Removing the tupperware before visiting a dealer isn't a bad idea and definitely something to consider. As far as independent shops go if it was an ATV that might work but not for an FJR. The local yamaha dealer told me that if I brought my bike in they would be bound to do the work required because they are an authorized Yamaha dealer but that it would be hard for them since they have no experience with the FJR at all. Hey, they're honest and a good bunch of guys so no complaints. They can get me parts no problem so I had them order me a FSM.

O.K., today I get a voice mail from the service writer that both tells me that it's good, and makes me even more nervous. He reports they determined the post valve adjustment throttle body synch was too far off to idle. I have trouble enough with that, but he says it's running "to O.E.M. specification". Not running great, or anything like that. Just that it runs to what they think it should. Still not returned to me, since they wanted to let it cool back down and double check the clearances again. Which, if they do much of what they've said so far, would be, what, the fourth time?

I do not have high hopes.

I will not be signing off on anything, or paying any money before a verification ride.

You have a '12 FJR with low miles...no reason for it not to run like a fine watch.

I'd be very skeptical of running to "OEM Specification" unless it's just like when you took it in. And who did the post valve check TBS? Wow!

Good luck, hope the fears are unfounded.

--G

I believe that one of the symptoms of the cams being out of time is that the TBS goes out of spec. Valve timing affects vacuum.

This ain't gonna end well...

dcarver said:

This ain't gonna end well...

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+1 agreed