Tire beads and TBS sensors

This is going to take some explaining, but I think it is interesting information. I started a thread about gen 2 bikes being smoother than gen 3. I have found the problems with my gen 3 bike and it is two fold. Our riding group has been changing our own tires for the last few years. Dealer wants $35 to $50 dollars a tire for mounting and balance. We have been using a Coats and Genmar changer and tire balancing beads. One of our BMW riders complained about his new tires feeling out of balance even with the beads. He bought a static balancer from Parnes company. We checked the rim without the tire. It was over 3 ounces heavy on the valve stem/ tpms side. With the tire mounted it was worse. We spun the tire and got it within 3 ounces. We decided beads would have never overcome this amount of weight. We did break the tire down and add balancing beads after balancing static without beads of course, and so far perfect. I have performed the same procedure on my bike and it is now as smooth as my last. The other interesting thing is, before I replaced the tps sensor, for the problem mentioned in the other thread, the bike was hard to ride in sport mode. It was way to twitchy. I thought it was me. After replacing the tps sensor the twitchy throttle was gone along with surging and other problems previously mentioned, and I think it made the bike much smoother. spending some time reading the forum makes me think the tps sensor is a much more common problem causing many different symptoms.

Danny

https://www.marcparnes.com/Yamaha_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm

Great balancer, have used 1 for years.

Yep, balancing is noticeable for sure. Interesting on the tps sensor.

Tire balancing beads are the snake oil of the motorcycle world. The issue is that beads just don't work. There is no substitute for a proper balance.

Edited to remove TPMS comment - I misread the original post.

Agree with the last statement for the most part. I think that beads can work but find them to be problematic.

There are threads all over about odd problems with them. Some saying they work and others saying not.

So I believe in simple engineering basics. A static balance always works and is simple to do. Why mess around with this medicine man stuff.

Rather simple concept. Make the round thing as heavy on one side as the other by sticking stuff to it.

Glad you got it worked out but maybe simpler would have been better.

YMMV

<Inane comment, deleted>

Just buy a balancer, strewth !

Marc Parnes has good stuff or check Ebay

Change out all my and my friends tyres and no problems what so ever !

Cheers

I swear by tire balancing beads. The key is to measure out a precise amount, so you have a baseline. Set your sample aside, record the gram weight or equivalent in you log book or notepad. Drink a beer. Take a moment to give thanks for beer. Pour the bead sample into the beer bottle. Throw the beer bottle away. Balance tire/wheel. You're done!

That said, I have personally dealt with a bad TPS. Took a long time for it to get fixed. Folks here were super supportive, and diagnosed the problem long before the company got around to replacing a whole bunch of stuff that happened to include the TPS.

Or, instead of wasting money on beads you lose or throw away, and by all sane accounts don't work for shit, spend the money ONCE on a balancer, and properly static balance the tires. Problem solved and no snake oil shenanigans.

MrZappo said:

Rather simple concept. Make the round thing as heavy on one side as the other by sticking stuff to it.

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That's what she said

replacing a whole bunch of stuff that happened to include the TPS.

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Is replacing the TPS plug and play? Or do I need some sort of configuration to put me back on the 'smooth' again?

Mark Parnes balancer = good! Beads and other slimey products = bad!

roger dodger said:

...Is replacing the TPS plug and play? Or do I need some sort of configuration to put me back on the 'smooth' again?...

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There is an adjustment, easier than you might think from reading the manual.

(Click on image for larger view)



Note you have to press and hold the two buttons before turning on the ignition, pressing them afterwards doesn't get you into the right diagnostic mode.

With your 'A', you get into the right mode straight away. For anyone else reading this, and if memory serves, with the 'ES' (in the USA) or an 'AE' or 'AS' (Europe), there is a choice of computer diagnostics after the 8 seconds, this adjustment requires selecting the ECU, not SCU (suspension) or MCU (YCC-S).

The only reason people like balancing beads is they are cheap and easy. Do they work? NO! I think you would be better off just mounting the tire without any attempt to balance rather than waste any time with beads. If balancing beads work then why, after installing beads, does a tire show imbalance when placed on a spin balancer? I tried this with a car tire and no, the tire was not in balance. Just more snake oil. Oh, somewhere on the internet I read about how the bead fanatics had some explanation as to why a spin balancer is not a valid test of the beads. More BULL COOKIES! Just invest in a static balancer, take your time to get a precise balance, mount the tire and take a ride.

Now for what I really think

I tried them and got vibration above 65 MPH. The bead manufacturer said put in more beads. Instead, I removed and static balanced the tires and the vibration was gone. When I inspected the beads before vacuuming them out, many were clumped and stuck to various places around the inside of the tire. If they did anything at first, they sure didn't after that.

Hi Gitbox, I had exactly the same experience with the beads. Maybe the tire lubricant causes the clumping I don't know. Sometimes I spend up to 30 minutes on one wheel doing a static balance but imo that's a small price to pay for getting it right and I think I get more even tire wear with no cupping on the front tire as well.

Guys,

If beads really don't work why do big trucks use them. I think this is some where in the middle.

Danny G said:

Guys,
If beads really don't work why do big trucks use them. I think this is some where in the middle.

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you think a big truck could feel an ounce or 2 out of balance ??

i can guarantee a vehicle , say average car, i can feel .5 oz off (25 year master mechanic) i have never used or seen beads used in tires i have changed.

i could feel a 1/4 oz on my c14 rear tire.

That's odd. I had a friend visiting pulling a travel trailer with a Ford 550 and he was using beads.

I started this post because I was having problems with the beads. I am not sure if they work or not. I do know they are used in other applications.

Danny G said:

I started this post because I was having problems with the beads. I am not sure if they work or not. I do know they are used in other applications.

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Yes, they are used successfully in other applications- that's the middle ground. Heavy applications like big trucks and Ford 550s pulling trailers. Things with lots of weight on the tires. Things like motorcycles, they don't work well or consistently.