Hard to decide: FJR vs BMW K1200GT

Hey guys, please help out, and although this may seem unreasonable on an FJR owners board, try to maintain an even perspective!!

I am looking to replace my HD Ultra Classic after I rear-ended a pick-up. No ABS and wooden brakes were partly to blame (as was me). I have decided that I want the power of a four cylinder, the comfort of a touring mount, and the safety of a modernly engineered bike. Just by way of background, the bikes I have owned in the pst five years include an FZ1, R1200RT, HD Road King, and of ocurse, the Ultra.

I looked at VFRs, Sprint STs, Guzzis, ZX-14s, etc, but decided these put too much emphasis on sport with dodgy ergos and too many comromises for the pillion passenger. I also looked at the ST1300, but decided against this due to the heat problems (it gets warm here in Las Vegas!).

No doubt some of you have westled with these choices also, so I would be very interested to hear your views.

The problems that I see with the BMW are price, useless seat (requiring $900 to replace), crappy windshield, and expensive accessories. By the time I'm done with the mods I would need, I would to need spend $25K OTD. That's a lot!

The absolute essentials I need are ABS brakes (easy with the FJR), top box (again, a standard FJR accessory), cruise control (down to the Audiovox or MC Cruise), handlebar risers (Heli?), lowered footpegs (rider & passenger), replacement seat (stock seats are generally uncomfortable for me after a couple of hundred miles), and possibly some different grips to help with the vibes & tingles. I would also consider an EFI re-map to smooth out the fueling. I guess all up with the FJR, I'd be looking at around $17 - 18K, which is a real saving over the Beemer.

I must admit that I am none too excited about having the cruise as a bolt on after-thought, although the MC unit looks less conspicuous than the Audivox unit.

Any and all comments are welcomed!! :blink:

Both are great bikes. I've heard the seating position on the BMW is a little more pleasant for 6 footers on the BMW, but you nailed the cost thing. Only thing you didn't factor in is the maintenance costs. WAY cheaper for the Yamaha. Valve check (and usually not even an adjustment) every 26K. You're going to get biased opinions on this board for sure, but that's OK. As for add-ons like cruise.....you've found a great board that knows their farkles.

I too looked at the Beemer, but it was out of my price range. IMHO, the FJR does everything the Beemer does, for WAY less money, and I prefer the looks of the FJR over the Beemer. For all the money you will save, you can Farkle the bike and still have several thousand leftover to keep in the bank. I have NEVER regretted buying the FJR, and can tell you it makes an excellent two-up bike as well. BTW, +1 in the risers... I am considering these as well.

Just to muddy the waters a little more the Concours 14 is due soon in dealerships. There are some shots on this forum and the kawasaki website, but no tests yet. Heat may be a problem with it unless Kawi has addressed it. It is a common complaint on the ZX 14, and one that was remedied on the 06 FJR. The price hasn't been released yet, but it's a good bet it'll be in the neighborhood of the ST and FJR. Kawasaki is claiming it will be the most powerful sport tourer and may have the smoothest engine. I rode the ZX 14 and it is surprisingly smooth. It looks like the stock seat may be more comfortable than the FJR's, but you can't judge a book by its cover.

It sounds like you have already talked yourself out of the beemer, based on price/value. I have not riden a GT so I can't make that value judgemet. BMWs do tend to hold their value well, so if you can afford the ante, you're likely to do alright at resale.

Good luck with your decision. Keep us updated.

Just to un-muddy the waters a bit. I saw a new Connie for the first time yesterday at the Atlanta MC show. Looks nice but that puppy ain't going to be on the street for a while, probably a long while. They won't even tell you how much it weighs or what it will cost. Most guys without the luxury of unlimited funding tend to shy away from first year bikes of any kind. Also, the Farkle list for it isn't even in vendors dreams yet. Now for Beemers. Like the old gray mare, Beemers ain't what they used to be, except for the price. I remember the days when a BMW was the bike that did not break, lasted forever and cost way more than any other bike of comparable performance. Two out of three ain't bad. The do have problems, just like any bike (probably a lot less than an FJR depending on model). They are WAY over priced for what you get and last about as long as anything else. One thing has changed. You used to be able to work on them yourself. Don't plan on working on the ABS yourself unless you have a BMW shop. Another thing to think about if you take long rides, there are a lot more Yamaha dealers around than BMW dealers. Although I don't have any real stats to prove this, but I would bet that even after you expend all that extra cash for the purchase, annual upkeep costs on the BMW will be higher. I discovered two items when I was looking to replace my Sprint, the Yamaha runs on regular and BMW's want premium. Around here that's at least 20 cents a gallon, and when you ride some of the places I ride, premium gets hard to come by. Am I prejudiced? Recon so.

OK, words from the UK.

We went through exactly the same scenario last year. After parting with our second ST1100, we rode a BMW for half a day courtesy of the local dealer. (Great coffee by the way). The Mrs liked it but I didnt. Just couldnt get used to how different it felt. To be honest I was disapointed as I have owned about 30 bikes over as many years but never a beemer. I was looking forward to adding it to the list.

The Concourse was not on the horizon then so we went for the 06 FJR. Had a lot of problems with a miss-fire which is documented on this forum. (Previous name max speed). Eventually got a full refund courtesy of an excellent dealer (Sale Yamaha Manchester). We have now bought a new 05 FJR from old stock from the same dealer.

The Concourse (Seems odd calling it that, its called the 1400GT here), would have been our choice but as a previous poster states we cannot get a proper date for its launch. That together with it being a new model put us off. Let someone else deal with the glitches, had enough of that with the 06 FJR.

Good luck, let us know what you do.

The absolute essentials I need are ABS brakes (easy with the FJR), top box (again, a standard FJR accessory), cruise control (down to the Audiovox or MC Cruise), handlebar risers (Heli?), lowered footpegs (rider & passenger), replacement seat (stock seats are generally uncomfortable for me after a couple of hundred miles), and possibly some different grips to help with the vibes & tingles. I would also consider an EFI re-map to smooth out the fueling.

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1.) Cruise control: Many of us get by with a throttle lock, but its been done enough that there is plenty of info on the forum.

2.) Handlebar risers: Heli currently the only resort.

3.) Lowered footpegs: I'd ride it for 1K miles to see if the rider needs them, passenger (if long legged) is easy.

4.) Seat: No brainer, I have a Russell but others buy what works for them. For many of us the OEM was a 200 mile butt-burner.

5.) Grips are also easy-peasy.

6.) Throttle: 1st, the G-2 throttle tube (which seems to be smoothing out the weird shaped throttle cable cam), then think about a PCIII for remapping.

7.) Perhaps a windshield, depending on your height and seating position. I'm 6'2" and have an oversized windshield.

You're still out far cheaper than a BMW and the bike is personalized to you, the FJR "almost" performs like the FZ-1 (thought it doesn't have the cornering clearance), Aaaannndddd.....

You meet the nicest people on an FJR! :yahoo:

madmike2 said:

Aaaannndddd...You meet the nicest people on an FJR!

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Well, yeah, as long as you don't run into THIS character! :scare:

Jb

P.S. "Easy-peasy..."?

:bleh: :blum: :bleh: :blum: :bleh: :big_boss: :aggressive: :spiteful: :crazy:

Don't make me go Skyway on yer........

From the description of what you are looking for in a bike, I'd say you described the Honda Goldwing!

Airborne06 said:

From the description of what you are looking for in a bike, I'd say you described the Honda Goldwing!

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These waters are getting muddy again!

Someone obviously hasn't spent much time around the LD guys, hmmmmmm. Some of these farkles are absolutely necessary for 1K mile days, and they make my 400-500 mile days a bit easier in my, er, uhm, current stage of maturity (yep, I'm an Olde Pharte).

I say, if you are beyond the stage of having your body conform to the motorcycle, you change what you need so the motorcycle conforms to you!

If you get the heli triple clamp there is no need to do anything with the grips because the vibration is gone. If you get the power commander you will not need the Q2. A seat(for me russell), power commander and heli triple clamp and you have one of the best performing motorcycles out there. As stated if you are going to travel the bmw network is very very slim. It sounds like from the bikes you have had buy the fjr and if you don't like it buy the beemer. I don't think you will make it to the beemer. I also have been going from bike to bike looking for the perfect one for me. I now have an 06 fjr and an 04 fz6. Both bikes are do it all types with the fz6 being so light and ultra versatile. Anyway good luck in your search. Everett

I'm always a little surprised when someone who hasn't ridden one mile on a bike declares that they're going to have to spend $4K on accessories like seats, windshields, footpegs, grips, etc. to make it acceptable. These are all things that you'll never find out if you need to replace by reading the internet. Instead, you've got to put in some 500-miles days and see how it all works for you.

I'd recommend you get the FJR and leave all the extra money in the bank earning interest. Unless you really want the BMW, it is hard to justify the extra money. Ride it for awhile and then one by one, fix the things that need fixing, asking for advice as you go. It may be a lot of things, it may be nothing.

This is one of my huge pet peeves - way too much internet riding rather than real riding.

- Mark

i AGREE WITH WHAT... oops sorry CAPS LOCK was on... the other guys said above.

The cruise thing is a no-brainer, too. Get an Audiovox installed. If you use skyway's mount, it will look crazy stock and that will be all you see. I think BMW makes nice vehicles and bikes, but they really like to make people beg to buy them.

-BD

simple answer.

If you want it factory, and don't want to touch it -- and don't care about the cost... BMW -- just add all the factory add-ons.

If you want to self-customize (do it yourself), and farkling is a hobby... Yamaha -- just add what you want by yourself.

markjenn said:

I'm always a little surprised when someone who hasn't ridden one mile on a bike declares that they're going to have to spend $4K on accessories like seats, windshields, footpegs, grips, etc. to make it acceptable. These are all things that you'll never find out if you need to replace by reading the internet. Instead, you've got to put in some 500-miles days and see how it all works for you.
I'd recommend you get the FJR and leave all the extra money in the bank earning interest. Unless you really want the BMW, it is hard to justify the extra money. Ride it for awhile and then one by one, fix the things that need fixing, asking for advice as you go. It may be a lot of things, it may be nothing.

This is one of my huge pet peeves - way too much internet riding rather than real riding.

- Mark

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Well, then let's get away from Internet riding, and into real riding.

I own both a 2005 FJR (full disclosure - put up for sale today) and a 2006 BMW K1200GT. I have toured on both, putting 12,000 miles in under 6 weeks on the Bimmer last summer, touring across 23 states and two Canadian provinces; and 8000 miles in two summer tours over about 3.5 weeks on the FJR in the previous summer.

I feel that after owning, rather than test driving or reading about, both, I'm in a pretty good position to respond to the original question posed; at least with an opinion as to how I see it.

First, the Bimmer offers some advantages over the FJR. Even cooler than the 06 and 07, both of which I have ridden in summer. Cruise control factory installed versus aftermarket (YMMV), which performs flawlessly. This is a big deal to me. Slightly (IMHO) superior brakes. Suspension adjustment (9 settings) with the ability to change the 3 gross settings on the fly (a feature that those who have never had it indicate is unnecessary; much like many of those who shrug off a need for an electric windshield until they've owned one and are willing to admit it). BMW: Superior fit, equal finish. Bags that don't require a key to open. Superior lean angle, stock-to-stock. Both now have integrated (on my 2005, the control sits above the bars like an afterthought) heated grips, bmw offers factory installed multi-level control heated seats. Trip computer with more functions.

On the FJR side of the advantages tally book, you have the ability to add highway pegs (the bmw has no place to bolt these on), a metal tank for those who like magnetic tank bags/map holders. The stock seat on the FJR is so far superior to the BMW's its laughable (altho I still run a Sargeant seat on the FJR).

I've modified both with aftermarket shields, peg lowering kits, and risers, so for me the comfort level/position is equivalent, although for some reason the FJR feels slightly like a better 'fit' after 300-400 miles; but I couldn't tell you exactly why.

Now for the hard part; the price and maintenance cost difference - i.e. the elusive 'value for the buck' calculation.

My honest assessment after having ridden and owned both is as follows. The BMW K1200GT is a superior bike to the FJR. This would be my opinion even compared to the 07 FJR, which is a huge advance over the 05 in heat (I did the Cromeit heat fix which solved the bulk of the problem), but which seemed to me (IMHO) to drive/ride very similarly to my 05 in all other aspects. BUT, does the degree in difference in superiority justify the difference in price - I personally don't think so. If you have to justify the additional amount of price and ongoing cost with the difference in the bikes, you can't. The FJR is the clear choice. BUT, IF the price and maintenance cost is of literally no consequence, and all you want is the best sport tourer available, than the GT is a better pick than the FJR (which constitute #1 and #2 in the list of good choices).

Everything here is my opinion only, but is at least based on weeks in both saddles.

The_Touring_Professor said:

If you have to justify the additional amount of price and ongoing cost with the difference in the bikes, you can't. The FJR is the clear choice. BUT, IF the price and maintenance cost is of literally no consequence, and all you want is the best sport tourer available, than the GT is a better pick than the FJR (which constitute #1 and #2 in the list of good choices).

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Do not own a BMW but it was one of my three final choices. For me it was the cost. I don't plan on necessarily keeping my FJR for more than 5 years (new bike as time allows :yahoo: ) so the added costed of the BMW didn't make it worthwhile for me.

818Guy said:

The_Touring_Professor said:

If you have to justify the additional amount of price and ongoing cost with the difference in the bikes, you can't. The FJR is the clear choice. BUT, IF the price and maintenance cost is of literally no consequence, and all you want is the best sport tourer available, than the GT is a better pick than the FJR (which constitute #1 and #2 in the list of good choices).

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Do not own a BMW but it was one of my three final choices. For me it was the cost. I don't plan on necessarily keeping my FJR for more than 5 years (new bike as time allows :yahoo: ) so the added costed of the BMW didn't make it worthwhile for me.

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EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.