Underwater Traction Control

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mcatrophy

Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS
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For whatever reason, for some time I've not been going out for rides like I used to, merely using the bike for shopping trips. Today, after a week of stormy weather, the sun was shining, the wind had calmed a bit. I decided to force myself to ride for riding's sake.

As a sort of destination, I chose this ford that I've been across a couple of times.
(Click on image for larger view)

Tissington Ford (December, 2015)
[edit: photo shown in a previous post [/edit]
Approaching the ford (from the far side, so in same direction as the bike is pointing), I was following a car. He paused before entering the water, I hung back in case I decided to turn round before committing - the slope down is considerably steeper than the picture shows, turning round near the water would be very tricky. The driver obviously was being cautious, the water was significantly deeper than in my picture, and flowing quite quickly. Anyway, he decided to cross, and I could see the water level covering most of his wheels, so probably a little over a foot deep. (The depth gauge that used to be there had disappeared.)

He got through without a problem, but paused on his way up the far slope (about where my bike is in my picture). I went down to the water, but before entering, waited the minute or so for him to depart. I didn't want any distractions as I went through.

He left, I entered, holding bottom gear, doing maybe 10 mph? (never looked at my speedo). I could feel the water riding up my boots, though it never went over the top.

Got three-quarters of the way through, and I suddenly found that the back end of the bike was going sideways. Whether because the flow of water was sufficient to push the back-end out (the front didn't lose grip) or the increase in throttle setting needed to keep my speed when going up the exit slope, or some combination of the two, I don't know.

Using all of my knowledge and experience, I assessed the situation and decided to hold the throttle steady. Erm, I froze.

Luckily for me, the bike didn't topple, but it had me very worried for a while, a slewing bike in foot-deep water and me having no real off-road experience. After maybe two or three seconds (it felt like a lot longer), I reached dry(ish) road, and the bike wriggled itself straight and upright.

I was going to stop to take a similar picture to the one above, but I was so relieved to have got through without a disaster that I forgot about the picture and just kept going.

In the past I've turned the bike round and gone back through, but this time I chickened out, found another way home.

Traction control? I believe it saved me from a lot worse, it seemed to hold with just enough torque to keep moving, although not actually gripping enough to align the wheels. I'm pretty sure that had the rear wheel spun up, I'd have been over. Finding someone to walk into that minor torrent to help me lift the bike would have been difficult, and it may well have sucked water into the cylinders before the engine cut.

 
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I remember the photo from the previous post.https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/166064-tissington-ford/?hl=ford

(December 2015) How much higher was the water this time?
I don't know exactly. As I said in my post, the depth gauge that used to be there had gone. It came 3/4 of the way up the car's wheels (not including the bow wave), and well up my boots with my feet on the pegs (I could feel the cold of the water on my legs through my boots).
My best guess would be about 13 to 15 inches, at least twice as deep as that previous encounter.

It was also flowing quite quickly, previously it was barely moving.

 
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You're a much braver man that I am mcatrophy! I fear had the bike gone down it would not have turned out very well for the FJR.

~G

 
Seriously - don't do this. Water will remove lubricants then rust parts. Drive shaft, swingarm. shock linkage, rear shaft drive, wheel bearings... maybe more places where water is a no-no.

Oh, and gators consider english people a delicacy... just ask Dr. Livingston .)

 
Any concern of water entering the vent on the rear end driveshaft?
Canadian FJR
Seriously - don't do this. Water will remove lubricants then rust parts. Drive shaft, swingarm. shock linkage, rear shaft drive, wheel bearings... maybe more places where water is a no-no.
Oh, and gators consider english people a delicacy... just ask Dr. Livingston .)
Come on, guys. This is a bike that is designed to ride down motorways in pouring rain at (in the UK's case) 70 mph, for hour after hour. In my case it has done so many times, even at faster speeds than that, though (of course) not on a UK motorway.

Twenty seconds or so of immersion to a depth of a few inches is nothing like the forceful and continuous pounding of water on all parts of the bike that normal rain riding creates.

While I wouldn't advocate pointing a pressure washer at bearings and electrics, I have no compunction whatsoever at hosing my bike when I clean it (albeit not as often as I should), and it inevitably it gets ridden through sometimes quite deep puddles frequently.

To my knowledge, my FJRs have never suffered from water ingress - the only caveat to that is that my bikes don't do the mileages some people do, a few tens of thousand of miles rather than hundreds of thousands.

In my previous thread pointed to by RossKean above, I did check my final drive oil for water. Not a sign.



Oh, and 'gators? Not worried, I'm too old, skinny and my flesh far too tough for any predatory animal to bother with. Anyway, I am ATGATT, so I am safe from anything
rolleyes.gif
. Aren't I?
nea.gif


 
Oh, and 'gators? Not worried, I'm too old, skinny and my flesh far too tough for any predatory animal to bother with. Anyway, I am ATGATT, so I am safe from anything
rolleyes.gif
. Aren't I?
nea.gif
Maybe, except for possible drowning!

I have seen Yamaha final drive fluid come out thick and milky after water ingress (probably due to pressure-washing). I think it is prudent to check after a soaking but that is the only thing I would worry about. As Mcatrophy said, pounding down the road in a rainstorm (or even washing the bike) is a lot more forceful than fording a small body of water.

 
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Oh, and 'gators? Not worried, I'm too old, skinny and my flesh far too tough for any predatory animal to bother with. Anyway, I am ATGATT, so I am safe from anything
rolleyes.gif
. Aren't I?
nea.gif
Maybe, except for possible drowning!

I have seen Yamaha final drive fluid come out thick and milky after water ingress (probably due to pressure-washing). I think it is prudent to check after a soaking but that is the only thing I would worry about. As Mcatrophy said, pounding down the road in a rainstorm (or even washing the bike) is a lot more forceful than fording a small body of water.
Yeah - that's probably right. I suppose I had not considered the amphibious abilities, before now.

There are lots of things you probably could do do with it... like strapping a live gator onto the passenger seat and taking it to market. Again, probably safe
smile.png


 
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If you guys don't want to ride your FJR through a puddle just because you are afraid of rinsing off some lubrication then you will miss out on some fun riding. Your choice. I have ridden through deep puddles on the FJR and on chain driven bikes and my only concern was to make sure the water could not get into the engine. If the final drive takes in some water then it is easy enough to change that oil when I get home.

Anyway, the question was about traction control in the water. I have never owned a motorcycle with traction control, so I can't answer that. I do wonder if the road under the water was slimy with growth. If so, then the lack of grip and the pressure of the current against the back wheel and saddle bags might move it sideways without the traction control coming into play.

 
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I do wonder if the road under the water was slimy with growth. If so, then the lack of grip and the pressure of the current against the back wheel and saddle bags might move it sideways without the traction control coming into play.
I dropped my '03 FJR in a shallow concrete stream crossing in the Texas Hill Country many years ago because of algae slime all over it. Everything was fine for about 20' into the 50' crossing when the rear wheel just slipped out from under me and down I went on the right side gouging my side case--I was not expecting that. It was the only way in and out of the property I was visiting so I had to do it again when I left and, sure enough, I went down again even though I was trying my best to keep it steady and straight, this time on the left side damaging that side case as well. There was absolutely no way to avoid this--it was a real bummer.

 
I do wonder if the road under the water was slimy with growth. If so, then the lack of grip and the pressure of the current against the back wheel and saddle bags might move it sideways without the traction control coming into play.
I dropped my '03 FJR in a shallow concrete stream crossing in the Texas Hill Country many years ago because of algae slime all over it. Everything was fine for about 20' into the 50' crossing when the rear wheel just slipped out from under me and down I went on the right side gouging my side case--I was not expecting that. It was the only way in and out of the property I was visiting so I had to do it again when I left and, sure enough, I went down again even though I was trying my best to keep it steady and straight, this time on the left side damaging that side case as well. There was absolutely no way to avoid this--it was a real bummer.
There is a post somewhere in the archives of Julie (FJRfarrier) and another FJR rider going down crossing a small water crossing because of slime. They weren't moving fast at all.

 
If you guys don't want to ride your FJR through a puddle just because you are afraid of rinsing off some lubrication then you will miss out on some fun riding. Your choice. I have ridden through deep puddles on the FJR and on chain driven bikes and my only concern was to make sure the water could not get into the engine. If the final drive takes in some water then it is easy enough to change that oil when I get home.
Anyway, the question was about traction control in the water. I have never owned a motorcycle with traction control, so I can't answer that. I do wonder if the road under the water was slimy with growth. If so, then the lack of grip and the pressure of the current against the back wheel and saddle bags might move it sideways without the traction control coming into play.
I don't know if the surface was slimy, but it might have been. The underwater road surface is made of cobble stones, which are inherently slippery but normally perfectly navigable when wet. I couldn't see the surface because of the turbulence of the water.

The first time I went through it (some years ago), I got off the bike to check the surface, and it wasn't slimy then, but that was not long after it was resurfaced. The Google Maps street view shows the cobbles, and they look clean, but who knows when that was taken? (It says 2015, but I've known these dates to be very wrong.)

(Click on image for larger view)



Google Maps street view, looking in the direction I travelled

 
I will guess the rear tire slipped sideways due to the combination of slime and current.

Glad you ... powered ... through it successfully!

 
I will guess the rear tire slipped sideways due to the combination of slime and current.Glad you ... powered ... through it successfully!
The feeling I got was a bit strange.
Had I been on a normal road, I would have reduced (but not closed) the throttle, and would have expected the rear wheel to come into line. But in this case, with the water resistance, the bike would have stopped dead, and would certainly have gone down.

As it was, I still thought I was going down. The feeling of not being in proper balance and travelling a bit sideways gave me the feeling of the bike leaning on the water. Weird.

The more I think about it, the more I believe it was the traction control that prevented the wheel from going further out of line while still providing forward thrust, so saving my bacon.

 
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