Those damnable vibrations

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radman

R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
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Some may recall I sent my injectors, as well as another set of 4 I had acquired, to be cleaned and matched. This was done for free, as long as they got to keep 4 so as to begin an exchange program for the FJR, something they do for many FI bikes. Got them back (this was winter teardown) in just a few days, cleaned and matched to within 1% of each other. With the valves adjusted, fresh plugs etc I figgered Frank was set for the year, and should run bonkers to boot. I was partially correct. Frank ran great, power outstanding, but mileage wasn't so great (avg 35) and he had developed a vibration in the upper ranges (4500 rpm and up). Nothing radical, mind you, just irritating, and something that has been a problem off and on since new. I feel a 4 cylinder with 2 balance shafts, an excellent state of tune, and good cylinder balance should be smooth as glass. Frank wasn't. A TBS cleaned up some of it (hadn't done one after all the work, which included the recall TPS), but he still didn't seem quite right. I did some hard thinking on the subject, because thats pretty much all I do is think motors, ask the wife, drives her nuts, which is ok by me. Then it hit me-I had 4 matched within 1% injectors! Sunday I re-barbed Frank, and dialed in a 0 CO on all holes. Voila! Smooth as silk-subsequent adjustments up brought the vibes back, less than 0 and he began to show lean effect-throttle respose slowed, light surging developed at steady mid-range speed (I have a PCIII with the Holeshot Header map and the Accel Pmp, set lightly). But at 0, Frank is smoother than he's ever been-4000 rpm there is no motor, just this electric hum. 4500 ditto. 5000 ditto. Slight, very slight vibes 6k-8.5k. I plan to try leaning the map a touch to address those, a custom dyno map would probably be my best bet-when I can afford it, I will. But 2 things became obvious:

1) Overly rich settings most definitely can cause vibration issues, and

2) One sure way to smooth a troublesome bike is to have a matched set of injectors and eliminate Yams offset adjustment.

The co adjustment in the ECM has always bothered me-as the bike ages, the injectors are gonna change slightly in output, and therefore the co adjustments intial setting requirement is gonna change also. Keeping the system clean will help to prevent this, but my system was as well as if not better maintained than any out there-and my injectors varied by 5% across the original 4. This in 2 1/2 years and 27000 miles. Without access to a 4-5 gas analyzer, and 4 ports drilled into the downpipes of the header (the way the original Wally Smoothness Map was done for the PCIII by the way), theres no way to be sure of whether the settings have changed, need to be changed, or are right on (damn doubtful, you ask me). We all know some bikes are glass smooth right off the floor, while some have nagging vibration issues that are ongoing despite bar changes, grip changes, TBS's up the ying-yang etc. This may help to finally rid those problem bikes- which I now realise Frank was one of- of those bastardly vibes.

Original Co

1) -2

2) +14

3) +24

4) +18

Injector cleaning and matching

 
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Sometimes technical discussions are over my head. This is one of those times because while I understand you found a CO setting that when tweaked fixes things, I have to ask why would you have to adjust your Colorados in Minnesota?

 
Very cool find! And kudos to 'ya for backing away from the problem far enough to remember the CO settings.

Is Cherie next??? I'll bring beer and a hammer.

:)

 
:clapping: Excellent...

So just to make sure I grasped what you were talking about... Instead of matching injectors, Yamaha offsets them by tweaking the CO settings. The same ones we all enrichened by doing the barb mod.

Your syncing and matching of the injectors took out the need for those wild ass offsets? Is that correct?

How much does it cost to have your injectors matched?

:D

 
Just googled a site and it's $180 for set of four at 1% (Visit My Website (IT'S NOT MY WEBSITE!). They don't list the FJR however. DISCLAIMER - I don't know these folks, I just googled - "matched injectors" and they showed up first. I wondered about cost and threw out a trapline.

 
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Just googled a site and it's $180 for set of four at 1% (Visit My Website (IT'S NOT MY WEBSITE!). They don't list the FJR however. DISCLAIMER - I don't know these folks, I just googled - "matched injectors" and they showed up first. I wondered about cost and threw out a trapline.
Ah, thats the place I linked to. I was apparently the first FJR owner to contact them. They need to update the site-however, I know they have at least 4 on hand.

:clapping: Excellent...
So just to make sure I grasped what you were talking about... Instead of matching injectors, Yamaha offsets them by tweaking the CO settings. The same ones we all enrichened by doing the barb mod.

Your syncing and matching of the injectors took out the need for those wild ass offsets? Is that correct?

How much does it cost to have your injectors matched?

:D
Correct. J Lo has the price-$180 for a 1%. $120 for a 2%. Once you know the specs for each injector though, you can tune around it.

 
Does anyone know if the Gen II injectors are the same as the Gen I?

Thanks,

Bill

 
Does anyone know if the Gen II injectors are the same as the Gen I?
Thanks,

Bill
Gen 1 # 5FL-13761-00-00

Gen 2 # 5JW-13761-10-00

Now, this is from the Yam fiche proper, so I doubt the Gen 1 number will update to the Gen 2 number were one to order it, but it's still possible. One could still send in his injectors for a clean and flow test, and from that determine how to adjust, as when you get the injectors back, you get a sheet showing pre and post cleaning flow numbers, as well as each inj bagged with it's individual numbers attached. Knowing this, you could adjust CO numbers accordingly.

 
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Wow! Now this is a great discovery. The real secret to the roving gremlins. And it does explain why some bikes are much worse/better than others.

 
Sunday I re-barbed Frank, and dialed in a 0 CO on all holes. Voila! Smooth as silk-subsequent adjustments up brought the vibes back, less than 0 and he began to show lean effect-throttle respose slowed, light surging developed at steady mid-range speed (I have a PCIII with the Holeshot Header map and the Accel Pmp, set lightly).

Wow! Now this is a great discovery. The real secret to the roving gremlins. And it does explain why some bikes are much worse/better than others.
Ha! No way bro! It just means rad fucked with so many things on Frank until he finally reached the point where the motor only makes 32 HP...no power = no vibes! :lol:

Jes shittin rad. Nice piece of work ya done here, and makes good common sense to boot. Good on ya! :)

 
I have to tell you, this is out of control. Spent $15K on an 07, added grip puppies, bar weights, Gen Mar risers, trashed them, bought MotorcycleLarry's new risers, retorqueing sliders after every ride (the bolt must be two feet long), TBS, spring release, throttle cam, peg lowering kit, trashed them, to much scraping, Bill Mayer seat, and this is in all of 60 days. I must be nuts but I really like the ride. I just sold my Harley custom and the only thing I worried about is "more chrome". Help me here, where is shangrila. All I want to do is ride this beast and not feel like someone stuffed their vibarator up my butt. Can't wait to hear the answer to this. Have at it guys.

 
Excellent realization, dude. Why hasn't anyone come up with this B4?

I am sure the intakes should be matched, too, but clearly this gets you much closer that you could with a simple TBS or richening.

-BD

 
Can't wait to hear the answer to this. Have at it guys.
Perhaps your answer is in the first post of this thread. Some of your fixes have been directed at the source of the vibes (motor) like your TBS, but many have been seeking to simply dampen the vibes that exist (all your seat/peg/bar mods).

Were it me, I'd seek to kill the vibes at the source. This will be the most effective means of getting rid of the vibration in all areas of the bike. If you're not a great wrench, then find someone who is and get help. I was able to kill off most of the vibes in my '05 with the unauthorized TBS, but you may need to go further, depending on your sensitivity to vibration - everyone is different in that respect. One man's smoothie is another man's vibrator from hell.

Best of luck to ya.

 
Sounds like the right way to for-sure tune the bike well. Match the injectors, Test the CO from each cylinder... smooth and powerful.

And it doesn't take much to get things out of balance, either!

 
OK I'll try the first post. I have to tell you though, I just rode my Harley 13 hours straight back from Mexico, stretched out, no widshield, 40 degrees and all the wrong clothes, 40 MPH cross winds through Palm Springs, 40 foot semi's everywhere in the dark sitting on a seat called a "butt crack seat". My sensitivitiy is pretty high and in fact my wife thinks I'm a masochist. I am riding to Alaska in June and is the primary reason I ditched the Harley. In my 40 years of riding I know this vibration is going to be an issue when you do 750 miles and 12 to 14 hours a day. I want to fix the problem and concentrate on the ride. Alaska is no cakewalk. My sorry old ass needs to concentrate on keeping the shiney side up. Don't get me wrong, I love the bike so I've got to make this right before June 15th. Anyone up for some fun riding. Meet us in June. I'm meeting my buddies from Chicago in SF and on to Alaska.

 
Vibration is a strange thing-the vibes in a big v-twin are quite different than the high frequency buzz from a multi-it's all about frequency. I've owned several HD's, several vertical twins, even set up an out of phase vertical twin, all had their own vibe frequencies, all affected the hands and feet in different ways. I find the 4 cyl buzz the worst, and grow less tolerable of it as I age. One thing that led me in the direction I ended up heading was that I noticed Frank had vibrations that changed with temperature-smoother when 45 degrees vs 75 degrees. This indicated he was running rich. For what it's worth, I can now easily tune for temp on longer rides-only takes a minute to lean or richen via the CO screen to compensate for temp. Start out in the morning with a +4, back it down to 0 at my lunchtime stop. Actually works pretty slick. Racers setup for temp all the time, no reason we can't. Now, the FI should have the capability to adjust for temp, but I wonder how effective it is, or how wide a range it compensates for. Just the fact that I noticed (and it wasn't my imagination, not after putting 30K on Frank, in temps ranging from 15F to 110F) a difference in how the engine ran from hot to cold indicates to me it isn't as active or sensitive as it should be. But, the FI in the Gen I FJR is pretty basic, even when compared to the Gen II variant, with it's heated O2.

I've also noticed Frank is quite a bit quieter at cruise throttle openings now. I've become quite familiar with the sounds eminating from the Holeshot header system, having had it on over a year now. In my normal cruise range, 75-95 mph on slab, the sound has been reduced considerably, which means smaller throttle opening. This should translate to better mileage, which only time will tell, but I believe I've picked up a couple mpg, only 2 tanks in so far say that I've gotten 3 back, from 35 to 38 avg.

 
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I have to tell you, this is out of control. Spent $15K on an 07, added grip puppies, bar weights, Gen Mar risers, trashed them, bought MotorcycleLarry's new risers, retorqueing sliders after every ride (the bolt must be two feet long), TBS, spring release, throttle cam, peg lowering kit, trashed them, to much scraping, Bill Mayer seat, and this is in all of 60 days. I must be nuts but I really like the ride. I just sold my Harley custom and the only thing I worried about is "more chrome". Help me here, where is shangrila. All I want to do is ride this beast and not feel like someone stuffed their vibarator up my butt. Can't wait to hear the answer to this. Have at it guys.
welcome to the world of performance mods. say goodby to the old world show-and-shine mods. the first cause the bike to work more (power). the second cause you to work more (cleaning).

all of this is the same whether it's bikes, cars, or planes. chasing that last 20% of performance will cost you 80% of your total investment. some people see it as deminishing returns while others see it as a challenge.

 
You're fighting a losing battle on engine generated vibration. One of my cars is a Honda 4 cylinder. It has balancing shafts and everything Honda could likely do to smooth it. It also has vibration absorbing engine mounts between the engine and the frame/body. It's a 2.4 liter versus the FJR's 1.3 liter.

Yet it's still not as smooth as a V-6 or V-8, and certainly not as smooth as an in-line 6. I'm a big fan of the BMW in-line 6 and the old Nissan Z car in-line 6.

When the engine is bolted directly to the frame vibes will be experienced.

 

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