Info about high speed blowout

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2006FJR

2006FJR

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I put about 1000 miles on the bike this weekend riding the wife up the coast to do some wine tasting. Well, she asked me what would happen if we had a blowout at high speed with her on it? Would I be able to safely pull the bike to the side of the road? I have never had a flat or a blowout so I was wondering if some of you that have could share some of your experence?

Also, I just bought a new BMW car and it seems they all come with run flats now, do they have run flats for motorcycles too and if so are they any good?

 
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Generally speaking tubeless tires don't have catastrophic blowouts, they loose air gradually usually giving the rider some notice before going totally flat but that's not to say that if your tire was in REALLY bad shape it couldn't have one. Yes they do make run flats. I know they make em for HD police bikes but they have reduced load carrying capabilities and give the bike a stiff ride

 
I had a high speed "sudden loss of pressure" on a front tire about 3 years ago. The tire stayed on the bead and I was able to "slowly" pull to the shoulder. At first I didn't know what it was but the front steered like a truck w/o power steering, thus slowly pulled to the shoulder--and don't use the front brake. I'm sure that had I been in a corner, leaned over, the results may have been different.

Within the last week Barabus posted a thread about losing a rear tire and pulling off to the side. I'm sure it could have been more of a handful with a passenger on the back.

 
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I had my rear tire lose a mushroom plug at about 70mph on Rt 95. Wasn't catastrophic, but it was quick - probably 5 - 10 seconds between, "this feels funny" to handling really going to crap. Noticed the bike wasn't handling right - beginning to mush back and forth and I quickly figured out what it was. Lorie wasn't with me, so I can't relate how it would have gone with a pax.

 
I was on my honda 919 a few years ago on the highway. Noticed it felt kinda weird, but just didn't think anything of it. About 15 miles into the ride, a guy pulled up, honked his horn, and yelled that the rear tire looked low.

I pulled off and it was completely flat. Had picked up a nail or something and it fell out. Nothing at all hapened to the tire, and I was running at like 70 mph for at least 10 miles. The tire was a Bridgestone Battle Ax.

I guess I got lucky nothing worse happened, but I assume that bike tires are made not to blow out the same way a car or truck tire may.

 
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JimLor said:
I had my rear tire lose a mushroom plug at about 70mph on Rt 95.
Click to expand...
:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: Now this is most unusual news.... of all the tire plugs on the market, the mushroom plugs are supposed to be among the best.

How did this happen, Jim, doya know? Surely that big, wide mushroom head didn't force it's way out of the original puncture..... did it?

 
(Hmmm, are you being sarcastic...I'll reply anyway! :D ) All I can think is that it failed to the inside of the tire. I always check pressures before I ride so I'm confident the tire pressure was correct - at least 40 psi. I had ridden on the tire for ~100 miles. I pulled over and put 3 more mushroom plugs in - yeah, the first two sucked themselves into the tire. #1 I cut even with the tire w/o filling w/air first. #2 I filled with air and then cut mostly flush. #3 filled with air and left about 1/2" proud of the tire. #3 lasted roughly 35 miles. I parked ole' Maxine in the garage until my new tires arrived and I swapped them out. Also bought the sticky string to carry in my bags. Still carry the surgical equipment quality mushroom plug kit, but I'll offer that for folks I run across on the side of the road who have flats. I'm using the sticky string for the next flat I get.

 
JimLor said:
I had my rear tire lose a mushroom plug at about 70mph on Rt 95. Wasn't catastrophic, but it was quick - probably 5 - 10 seconds between, "this feels funny" to handling really going to crap. Noticed the bike wasn't handling right - beginning to mush back and forth and I quickly figured out what it was. Lorie wasn't with me, so I can't relate how it would have gone with a pax.
Click to expand...
Hey Jim ... whaddaya doing on 95 at 70mph? You're supposed to be in the twisties man ... lol.

Let's get together soon for a ride - I'll be going to Maxton this coming weekend - pm me.

JW

 
Most "blowouts" are actually slowly developing events. The tire has a puncture or some other issue that initiates a slow leak that goes unnoticed. As the pressure slowly drops the load capacity of the tire rapidly decreases and heat is increasingly generated until the tire fails catastrophically. The worst is an event that causes an air loss that stops just above the point you feel it and you are on the big slab itching to get to the appropriate exit. A recipe for disaster - especially 2 up. You have a false confidence from the diligent pre-ride tire check and the right wrist starts to pour on the coals. It would have been much better if the air loss had continued to a noticeable point before the heat nuked it. Even riding the twisties would be better because you notice the loss at much higher pressures. This is exactly why I think tire pressure sensors (with alarms) are such a great application on bikes, especially heavy ones like the FJR.

Consider this:

Tire reserves are preferred to be at least 50% for continuous cool running and best wear. I have included an R6, whichh uses the same size/load tire, for comparative purposes.

R6 - rear tire capacity (@ 42psi) = 806 - 210(1/2 wet weight) - 130(65% of 200lb rider) == 466lbs RESERVE

466/805= 58% TIRE RESERVE

FJR - rear tire capacity (@ 42psi) = 806 - 330(1/2 wet weight) - 130(65% of 200lb rider) == 346lbs RESERVE

346/805 = 43% TIRE RESERVE [[now drop to 38psi] - 276/736 = 37% TIRE RESERVE

ADD 40lbs luggage *****

306/805 = 38% ...........@ 38psi - 236/736 = 32% ........... @ 32psi - 170/670 = 25%

ADD 40lbs luggage & 140lb passenger ****

166/805 = 20.6% ............. @ 38psi - 50/736 = 6.7% .............. @ 32psi - -16/670 = -2.4%

Plug in your own numbers and do the math. It is easy to see why BMW uses 980lb 70series bias tires on their RT & LT.

The FJR being true to its sport side uses true sport sizes. While this works well solo or lightly loaded it requires some understanding 2 up and trunk and panniers stuffed. For those situations you have to become a pilot and start trading fuel for load or at least understand that triple digits may best wait until you are carrying a lighter load or at the very least the second half of the tank. Personally, if I find myself trimming the reserve a bit I will run 44 in the rear. I do this understanding that there is an unmentionable (by tire companies) margin of strength built in. This will cause center wear and longer braking distances but I can accept that if I am aware and adjust my riding style accordingly.

Wouldn't it be nice to know if you're going 85 to know that in the last 20 miles you have dropped from 42 to 39psi and that your tire that was running 120 degrees F is now at 140F even though the day is cooling off? Maybe it's just the pilot in me coming out and I need more gauges to play with.

 
FLHX said:
Yes they do make run flats. I know they make em for HD police bikes but they have reduced load carrying capabilities and give the bike a stiff ride
Click to expand...
BMW R1150RT, and BMW R1200RT police bikes here in CA have had run flat tires for several years.

Gary

 
How are you NOT supposed to use the front brake on an '06 or newer in the event of a front tire issue? The brakes are linked and the front brake will get used.

 
Trent,

Here is my experience on the I-605. Very unpleasant and I am seriously thinking about the Tire Smart product.

Clicky

Flyguy said:
Most "blowouts" are actually slowly developing events. The tire has a puncture or some other issue that initiates a slow leak that goes unnoticed. As the pressure slowly drops the load capacity of the tire rapidly decreases and heat is increasingly generated until the tire fails catastrophically. The worst is an event that causes an air loss that stops just above the point you feel it and you are on the big slab itching to get to the appropriate exit. A recipe for disaster - especially 2 up. You have a false confidence from the diligent pre-ride tire check and the right wrist starts to pour on the coals. It would have been much better if the air loss had continued to a noticeable point before the heat nuked it. Even riding the twisties would be better because you notice the loss at much higher pressures. This is exactly why I think tire pressure sensors (with alarms) are such a great application on bikes, especially heavy ones like the FJR.
Consider this:

Tire reserves are preferred to be at least 50% for continuous cool running and best wear. I have included an R6, whichh uses the same size/load tire, for comparative purposes.

R6 - rear tire capacity (@ 42psi) = 806 - 210(1/2 wet weight) - 130(65% of 200lb rider) == 466lbs RESERVE

466/805= 58% TIRE RESERVE

FJR - rear tire capacity (@ 42psi) = 806 - 330(1/2 wet weight) - 130(65% of 200lb rider) == 346lbs RESERVE

346/805 = 43% TIRE RESERVE [[now drop to 38psi] - 276/736 = 37% TIRE RESERVE

ADD 40lbs luggage *****

306/805 = 38% ...........@ 38psi - 236/736 = 32% ........... @ 32psi - 170/670 = 25%

ADD 40lbs luggage & 140lb passenger ****

166/805 = 20.6% ............. @ 38psi - 50/736 = 6.7% .............. @ 32psi - -16/670 = -2.4%

Plug in your own numbers and do the math. It is easy to see why BMW uses 980lb 70series bias tires on their RT & LT.

The FJR being true to its sport side uses true sport sizes. While this works well solo or lightly loaded it requires some understanding 2 up and trunk and panniers stuffed. For those situations you have to become a pilot and start trading fuel for load or at least understand that triple digits may best wait until you are carrying a lighter load or at the very least the second half of the tank. Personally, if I find myself trimming the reserve a bit I will run 44 in the rear. I do this understanding that there is an unmentionable (by tire companies) margin of strength built in. This will cause center wear and longer braking distances but I can accept that if I am aware and adjust my riding style accordingly.

Wouldn't it be nice to know if you're going 85 to know that in the last 20 miles you have dropped from 42 to 39psi and that your tire that was running 120 degrees F is now at 140F even though the day is cooling off? Maybe it's just the pilot in me coming out and I need more gauges to play with.
Click to expand...

Great summary. This is what happened to me. I did not notice being that I was on grooved super slab until it was too late!

 
Mike-H said:
ponyfool said:
How are you NOT supposed to use the front brake on an '06 or newer in the event of a front tire issue? The brakes are linked and the front brake will get used.
Click to expand...
Good question....wonder if anyone will/can answer it?....
Click to expand...
With a truely flat tire, you do not need brakes. It doesn't want to go. In fact after I stopped, I could not push the bike or use the side stand. Center stand was much harder to deploy too. Two guys could not push the bike. We had to winch to the front forks to "roll" the bike onto the tow truck. With a less than truely flat tire, I personally would brake.

 
The worst outcome of a catastrophic tire failure:

Butte man killed in I-90 motorcycle wreck

By The Associated Press - 05/10/2007

MISSOULA (AP) — A motorcycle blew a tire and crashed Tuesday on Interstate 90 east of here, killing a Butte man and critically injuring his wife.

The victim was Stephen Gageby, 50, authorities said.

The crash happened at about 6 p.m. between Clinton and Turah.

The couple was westbound on I-90 when the motorcycle’s rear tire blew out, causing the bike to crash, said Trooper Jason Hildenstab of the Montana Highway Patrol.

Stephen Gageby was not wearing a helmet and suffered severe head injuries. His wife, Karla, was wearing a lightweight helmet, but it came off as she was thrown from the motorcycle, Hildenstab said. She also sustained head injuries.

Karla Gageby was transported to St. Patrick Hospital in Missoula, where she was listed in critical condition.

*

Hildenstab said there was no indication that high speed or alcohol were factors in the crash.

The death raised the state highway fatality toll to 86, compared with 77 on May 9, 2006.

 
Damn I hate to hear about that accident and I road through Butte just a few weeks ago. This is the worst case! This article really has me thinking about run flats and Barabus has me thinking about a Tire Smart product. I think I am going to throw them both on this weekend. I want our safety to be our top priority. I don't mind taking chances with my own life if I do something stupid but I do not want to risk the one I love.

 
This story is also worthy commentary on the helmet issue. Apparently the half-hats are pretty worthless.

 
Mike-H said:
ponyfool said:
How are you NOT supposed to use the front brake on an '06 or newer in the event of a front tire issue? The brakes are linked and the front brake will get used.
Click to expand...
Good question....wonder if anyone will/can answer it?....
Click to expand...
I'll try :ermm: ....madness notwithstanding! :crazy:

Most street riders use the front brake a majority of the time. My statement was meant to instruct a rider NOT to grab the front brake as one would during a"normal" stop, rather than during a front-tire-failure incident.

The linked brakes on the NewGen FJRs only uses 1 piston on 1 disc. I am surmising that this small percentage (25% surface but not fully applied pressure) of front brake is not likely to cause the dire results one would achieve should a rider apply front brake with the handlebar lever, using all 4 pistons against both front discs. Especially when said rider's adrenalin level is probably far above normal and their cognitive brain function may not be over-riding their emotional response to the emergency. In other words, they are not likely to be modulating or controlling their response to the situation and may lock-up the front wheel causing it to come off the bead.

Careful application of the rear brake with the small amount of "linked system" the FJR uses shouldn't affect the outcome. As stated by Barabus, one should be coasting to a stop.

 
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2006FJR said:
I put about 1000 miles on the bike this weekend riding the wife up the coast to do some wine tasting. Well, she asked me what would happen if we had a blowout at high speed with her on it? Would I be able to safely pull the bike to the side of the road? I have never had a flat or a blowout so I was wondering if some of you that have could share some of your experence?
Also, I just bought a new BMW car and it seems they all come with run flats now, do they have run flats for motorcycles too and if so are they any good?
Click to expand...
Man and wife on HD this weekend. Blew out tire, crashed. He had no helmet, he's dead. She had on a shorty helment that come off when she hit the ground. Has head injuries in critical condition.

Don't know if it was front or rear tire. Speed and Alcohol were NOT a factor. Just bad luck for the people. I wonder what the condition of the tires were. New or old, possible worn out?

CK

Sorry for the double post. THis is the Butte Montana accident listed above.

 
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