Leaking forks

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Big Sky

Dr. Gonzo
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
242
Location
Butte, MT
Okay, '03 FJR, 31,000 miles, not a leak anywhere. Knowing it would be beneficial in the long run to have the fork oil changed (just as I do brake, clutch, engine and final drive fluids), I had the dealer disassemble and drain them, replace fork oil, reassemble and reinstall. I then go for a 1,000 mile weekend, then park the FJR for a week. I go out and notice a puddle under the left fork leg. Take it to the dealer and he informs me the slider has been scored which is likely causing the seal to fail. I go and look and there is very, very slight "groove" scratched/etched into the polished slider that you can barely see and barely feel with your thumbnail; almost more of a scuffing or scratch. He attributes the scoring to dirt or grit having got under the seal, a "common occurrance" on a bike of this age and use. He can replace the tube ($140), bushing and seals for me.

So, in my discussion with the dealer, I state my position thus: I ride and own this machine for four years and 31,000 miles. Everything is perfect, nothing leaks. I take it to you to have the forks serviced, ride it 1,000 miles and two weeks after your service the fork leaks. Now you tell me the slider is scored and that accounts for the leak. Question: did your tech during reassembly cause the problem? Did he allow grit to get into the bushing and/or seal and cause this? Remember, there was no leak when I brought it in. Or is it possible that this damage occurred during the 1,000 miles I rode the bike after I got it back from you, despite no damage here in the first 31,000 miles and four seasons? My view? Yes, it IS possible but most highly improbable; simply too coincidental.

No, no, the dealers says, the mechanic couldn't have done a faulty/dirty reassembly. Remember the age and use. This is just typical wear and tear and has no doubt been going on a long time.

My question: Okay, so you're saying this has been getting ready to fail due to long-term wear and tear. So why, when you had it fully disassembled, did you not notice this or advise me, but instead simply reassembled a unit you now tell me was failing/damaged at the time? I just don't buy that either.

He then gives me the classic - hey, I'll do whatever you want. I'll put a new seal in there with the rest of the parts as they are now and it might fail again.

I told him to take a bit of emery cloth to the polished surface and smooth it as much as possible, then reassemble it carefully, immaculately, first checking the bushing and any other surfaces for any grit or dirt. We'll see if it holds up. Of course, I'm now equally concerned about the other fork leg. What might they have done to that? It's not leaking yet, but...

In addition, I had them replace the stator cover and gasket because of earlier cosmetic damage to the cover's paint. Guess what? It now leaks, too, Had oil all over the side of the engine, the oil filter and my boot when I got back from a recent trip.

This Yamaha shop was always part of a local Toyota operation. The Toyota shop was impossible to deal with and exhibited very questionable service quality so I have always avoided them. Been having my major service work done at a shop in Billings - 240 miles away (this is Montana where EVERYTHING is a long ways away). Any way, the Toyota dealership was sold and the Yamaha motorsports business (bikes, sleds and ATVs) was spun off as a stand-alone. I thought I'd risk giving them my business and now it looks like a mistake and I'll be going well out of town again.

Any opinions on the tube being very slightly scored, how this could have happened, can it be refinished with emery, is this likely caused by a faulty/dirty reassembly? Or am I just a typical asshole customer who brings in a functioning piece of equipment for SERVICING (not REPAIR) and gets it back only to experience an immediate failure of said equipment, then wonders if the dealer played a role.

Come to think of it, I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone experiencing leaky fork seals or scored/damaged sliders from "natural" wear and tear on an FJR

I'd love to hear from the knowledgeable FJR owners out there.

 
90 percent of the dealers out there you can just bend over for......and take it. I'd just do it myself. Probably would help if I had a manual, though.

 
Can't speak for the FJR as I havent had a leaky fork yet but I did have a similar incident to yours with my shadow.

With 6k miles on her she started leaking in under 6 months, so the dealer fixed it under warranty. Less than a month later the 2nd seal starts to leak, once again I bring it in and ask them what is going on and if there was a chance they had scratched the tube when removing the old seal. Of course I hear no, so they fix it and sure enough, not more than a month later the damn thing was leaking again!

This time I sat there while they disassembled it and found a pretty decent scratch in the fork. I mean scratch to, not a score or wear mark. They put up a slight fight but then agreed to replace the tube because the bike was only 8 months old and they had been the only ones to work on it and didnt have a lot to stand on.

I imagine you could get a slight score in the fork over time, especially if you got something in between the tube and the seal but I dont know, it's tough to say with out seeing the mark. Mine was obviuosly doone by a screwdriver or something sharp and you could tell because the mark skitted across the tube...it wasnt a slight indentation in the tube where it might slide up and down over bumps.

 
To me, another classic case of why you want to learn how to do it yerself. the thing I always remind myself when approaching something like this...

whats the worse I can do? I'm good enough to make sure I put it back together correctly. So, screw up a fork tube? well the dealers can do that too, and probably more often then me!

and now that I've had the forks out, twice, (on my st1300), I'm very confident I can do things like this also. I hate the idea of having some chump butt kid work on something that means alot to me and pretty much nothign to them.

my .02 anyway... Regards,

 
There is no way that the tube would get scratched or scored while doing a fluid change. There's just nothing in the process that could cause it that would be part of the process. This being said, if it did indeed happen due to carelessness or incompetence on the techs part, the tech and/or shop is well aware of it happening. And that having been said, it would be a poor shop indeed that would not fess up and repair said tube on their dime. There can be instances where a scratch would not leak until fresh fluid was installed-very dirty fluid can build a false seal which would be removed during a cleaning and fluid change-you see this on poorly cared for engines that are bought by a conscientious owner, who does a couple oil changes in quick succession, only to remove false seals around oil pan and timing cover areas, which start to leak as a result. It's hard, though, to see this happening in a hydraulic device. Consider though, that the owner is telling the truth-as I said before, the shop that would damage a customers property then claim ignorance would be a pretty sleazy operation. What reputation does the shop have otherwise? Treated you ok in the past? That something happened in the 1000 mile period after the fork was serviced is, after all, well within the realm of possibilities. If the scratch was put there by the shop, I really don't think it would have taken 1K for the evidence to appear-I've replaced seals many times, and if a problem exists after the install, it shows itself almost immediately-tis the nature of the beast. Fork oil will find a way to get out very fast, if a route presents itself. You may want to consider this before accusing the shop, and burning a bridge that it appears you may very well need some day.

 
"Come to think of it, I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone experiencing leaky fork seals or scored/damaged sliders from "natural" wear and tear on an FJR"

Actually I just replaced the fork seals on my 05 at 34K. The right side pissed out most of it's fluid. Fork seals do wear out eventually. Mine just needed new seals, the sliders were fine. I'm surprised the dealer didn't put new seals in when they took your forks apart. That would seem most sensible to me, they could have damaged the seals taking everything apart.

 
When you say they dissassembled the forks do you mean they removed the forks from the bike to work on them or do you mean they actually pulled the tubes out of the sliders? Hard to imagine pulling the tubes/sliders apart just to drain the fork oil....but...???

If they did pull the tubes out they had to have exerted a fair amount of force on the tube to remove the seal from the slider as the tube will not simply slide out without pulling the seal also. There is a flat washer under the seal that the fork tube bearing loads against to pull the seal out during dissassembly. That washer can be bent into a concave shape by the force required. If it is not flattened before reassembly then it can ride up against the fork seal and cause it to leak. Don't ask how I know this. Possibly this happened in your case? I would expect a leak from this to show up rather quickly, though so how it could happen this way and wait 1000 miles to appear is a bit odd. If they didn't tear the forks apart then forget this idea.

If the problem is the scratch then a light burnish with crocus cloth (much finer than emery cloth....) would likely resolve the issue. Along with a new fork seal, also.

 
I appreciate the varied perspectives. It is my understanding the fork legs were removed and disassembled as I paid for new seals. The problem may have appeared almost immediately, since as soon as the bike came out of the shop, I took it for the 1,000 mile weekend, during which I may not have noticed a leak, then parked it. It may have taken me a week or two to notice the puddle as it was between the bike and the garage wall.

I have never used this dealer before, as explained in my original post. For convenience, I would like to be able to rely on them for the future. We'll see how this gets resolved.

Thanks again.

 
I bet that the tech distorted that washer under the seal when he dissassembled the forks and didn't realize it when he reassembled them. Easy to do and about the only way to catch it would be from the experience of having it happen previously. It is not very obvious as the washer is fairly large ID with a pretty narrow surface. The washer can be distorted dissassembilng the forks exactly a the service manual describes so the tech would not have to do anything "wrong" to cause this problem. Almost like the washer is too soft or something to be used to pull the seal out. You might mention this possible scenario to them least they spend a lot of time looking for another problem that doesn't exist.

FWIW...I've pulled my forks apart a number of times doing some revalving and just about everytime they come apart those washers are distorted and cone shaped. After the first episode of leaking I realized the problem and simply flatten the washer in the vice each time. It's only real purpose is to be there to dissassemble the forks the next time by pulling on the tubes (the lower bearing on the tube catches on the ID of the washer so as to pull the seal out of the slider) so functionally it will be fine if it is simply straightened out....but you have to know to look to see if it is distorted.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It sounds like a deformed washer could be the culprit. I called the dealership yesterday to advise along these lines but the service manager was "at a seminar" and didn't call back. I'll try again. Thanks for the sugestions.

 
I talked to the dealer and he said the seal was full of dirt/grit when they took it apart again. That's curious, since somehow I managed to fill the seal with spoodge in a mere 1,000 miles after the initial tear-down, when I hadn't managed that feat in four years and 31,000 miles previously. Sounds like an improperly installed seal, to me. Oh well. I told him about the washer and he said they'd check that. And he said they'd use steel wool to smooth the slider (?!) before reassembly. I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed regarding the re-fix, and the right fork leg which hasn't leaked yet since tear-down. Now if they get the stator cover to re-seal using a new gasket...

I really, really hate taking equipment in for service, then getting it back with brand new problems related to the items serviced. Sigh...

And I agree with those who suggest it's probably best to do these chores yourself. But that takes a certain degree of tool possession and know-how - and confidence - which I lack. I think I will have to remain satisfied with being able to change my own oil and pull and re-install wheels (the shop does the mounting and balancing).

 
This is one of the reasons this forum is great....you can learn from other owners in your area or get their help when trying different maintenance or projects on your bike that you might not have the mechanical savvy or tools for....

 
I live in a town of 30,000 in southwest Montana. Believe it or not, I am the only FJR owner I know of in the whole state (900,000 population) with the exception of one other in Lolo, MT - about 120 miles away, and I don't know if he does any of his own work. I've heard there is another in Bozeman about 85 miles away. I'd love to have a motorcycle mechanic mentor, especially one who owns an FJR. I have no mechanical training but am not stupid and can learn when shown how. I wouldn't, however, trust myself with a shop manual and tools. I'm not bad at getting things apart but am rather lame at getting them back together right. If I could, I'd do all of my own maintenance, diagnostics and repairs.

 
Big Sky, I ride trials bikes, scored fork tubes happen often. Take a fine sharpening stone and gently work down any high spots. Clean with solvent, fill any low spots with a good 2 part epoxy. Use a toothpick to apply, don't add too much. Let dry and use crocus cloth strip to polish to perfection. If the repair is visable, rotate fork tube to where it isn't. Good luck.

 
Well, today the dealer said they had redone the fork seal and smoothed the surface of the tube with steel wool. Said he "hoped" it would now stay sealed. Not a lot of confidence in their repair by the dealer or me, apparently. He didn't admit they could have allowed gritty contamination into the works during reassembly (I know, that's almost unthinkable, but...), or that the gunk could have gotten into it DUE to a faulty seal install. But, on the other hand, he didn't charge me either for round two, and this was after he thought he had me pretty well bent over. I must have been fairly (calmly) persuasive. However, a free fix won't mean squat if it starts leaking again. He also DID admit fault for a poorly installed stator cover gasket that resulted in a messy leak.

So far, so good. The dealer did the right thing and has kept me for a customer...for now.

 
I thought and hoped this thread was dead. Now, seven weeks and 2300 miles later, the right fork seal is gone and it went fast and bad. No leak this morning when I left for work. Rode five miles to the job and parked. When I went out a few minutes ago, the right fork was dribbling all over the brake caliper, which then dripped onto the wheel where it puddled up and ran onto the asphalt (I could actually watch it drip). Great! Oily brakes! Now I guess I get to look forward to another wrangle with the dealer... All coincidence? I think not!

 
Just had a similar problem with my Triumph Sprint ST. They refused to reconcile the problem so I fixed it and sold the bike because there are no other Triumph dealers in the vicinity. I now have an FJR.

I've learned to interview the mechanics before having my bike serviced.

 
I thought and hoped this thread was dead. Now, seven weeks and 2300 miles later, the right fork seal is gone and it went fast and bad. No leak this morning when I left for work. Rode five miles to the job and parked. When I went out a few minutes ago, the right fork was dribbling all over the brake caliper, which then dripped onto the wheel where it puddled up and ran onto the asphalt (I could actually watch it drip). Great! Oily brakes! Now I guess I get to look forward to another wrangle with the dealer... All coincidence? I think not!
Well, it's an 03, which had the worst springs of the bunch. Assuming you haven't replaced them, now might be a good time to send the forks off to GP or one of those places for a complete rebuild, re-valving, and re-springing. Not cheap, but the final result will, you'll find, be worth it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
No doubt you're right, radman. But in Montana, we've got to ride while we've got the weather. A rebuild and upgrade sounds like a good winter layup project. Right now I need a repair!

 
Top