What's the difference between the 06 and 07 bikes as related to altitude surging??

Just curious why more 07's are having altitude surging issues when it appears that only a few 06's have them. I thought the bikes were identical???

FWIW, my 06 ran flawlessly from sea level to 6000'.

jcolman said:

Just curious why more 07's are having altitude surging issues when it appears that only a few 06's have them. I thought the bikes were identical???
FWIW, my 06 ran flawlessly from sea level to 6000'.

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I have had my 2006 on the highest maintained road in the US. RT 34 Colorado, Trail Ridge Road, Rocky Mnt. N.P. peak elevation 12,132'

FJR & Rocky Mountains

My trip started at 134' above sea level.

My bike never made a sputter and I had a passenger on the back. I was impressed at that elevation but the speeds were slow...max 45 MPH.

I do not know what the difference is between a 07 and an 06 but I am glad mine does not have the surge. I plan to revisit CO again in the next few years.

The programming on the ECU is apparently a bit different.

OK, any one want to experiement?

Take an 06 and 07, swap ECU's, then go for an altitude run..

That is a good question. I too thought the bikes to be identical, so why are the 07s worse off with respect to this problem? Of course, I wonder why they are doing it at all, and wonder why it is just some and not all.

Glad I got an 04 these days.

TruWrecks said:

The programming on the ECU is apparently a bit different.

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If this is the case, then wouldn't a simple reprogramming fix the problems?? Have any of the 07' bikes that are experiencing the problems tried swapping ECU's??

OK, any one want to experiement?Take an 06 and 07, swap ECU's, then go for an altitude run.

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These are my thoughts as well.....

Although.... I understand the '07 FZ1 has (or had) pretty much the same, identical altitude surging problem, and Yamaha was able to correct it.

ASSuming this rumor is true.... can one of youse guys who frequent the FZ1 boards tell us what Yamaha did?

Warchild said:

Although.... I understand the '07 FZ1 has (or had) pretty much the same, identical altitude surging problem, and Yamaha was able to correct it.

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2006 FZ1s had the problem, and Yamaha corrected it for '07.

I thought '06 FJRs also had the surging problem, but apparently not. Now this is even more bizarre. No change in sensors from '06 to '07, meaning the '06 also does not have the baro sensor and pressure regulator??

Hey '06 owners, you also have a different set of CO numbers, correct? I have 5,18,18,21, and my build date is 1/07.

If bikes are identical, all I can think of is emissions were further tightened and Yamaha changed the settings. The CO levels would give us an answer, no? Thx.

JC

Some of the early 06's have reported surging to me. It seems the first batch of bikes for each year have some kind of 'bug' in them.

ELP_JC said:

Warchild said:

Although.... I understand the '07 FZ1 has (or had) pretty much the same, identical altitude surging problem, and Yamaha was able to correct it.

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2006 FZ1s had the problem, and Yamaha corrected it for '07.

I thought '06 FJRs also had the surging problem, but apparently not. Now this is even more bizarre. No change in sensors from '06 to '07, meaning the '06 also does not have the baro sensor and pressure regulator??

Hey '06 owners, you also have a different set of CO numbers, correct? I have 5,18,18,21, and my build date is 1/07.

If bikes are identical, all I can think of is emissions were further tightened and Yamaha changed the settings. The CO levels would give us an answer, no? Thx.

JC

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My '06 was -10,8,8,11 and +5 BM made it run well with no issues at all and no high idle rpm hunting...my '07 (had Stratoliner in between) was 5,18,18,21 and +4 seems the best...but it will not hold 2K rpms w/o a load even with the Throttlemeister locked...just wants to hunt between 1500 and 2500...under way I don't really drive in that range long, and don't notice the hunting or just correct for it...will play with the BM tomorrow to see if I can get the 2K issue smoothed out...have done two throttle body cals on the '07 and they're within 5mm at idle and 3500...but need to set the #3 to 250mm (now 235 or so) and redo as the manual and others have recommended...there was a mention in an early post in the main stumbling/surging thread, I believe, that Yamaha had told a troubled owner that there were changes in the ECU map from '06-'07...so, switching ECU's is an excellent test for someone to report on...what US emission standards have changed this year?...my $0.02 for the eve.

Gary in Fairbanks

PA1195 said:

My '06 was -10,8,8,11 and +5 BM made it run well with no issues at all and no high idle rpm hunting...my '07 (had Stratoliner in between) was 5,18,18,21 and +4 seems the best...but it will not hold 2K rpms w/o a load even with the Throttlemeister locked...just wants to hunt between 1500 and 2500...under way I don't really drive in that range long, and don't notice the hunting or just correct for it...will play with the BM tomorrow to see if I can get the 2K issue smoothed out...have done two throttle body cals on the '07 and they're within 5mm at idle and 3500...but need to set the #3 to 250mm (now 235 or so) and redo as the manual and others have recommended...there was a mention in an early post in the main stumbling/surging thread, I believe, that Yamaha had told a troubled owner that there were changes in the ECU map from '06-'07...so, switching ECU's is an excellent test for someone to report on...what US emission standards have changed this year?...my $0.02 for the eve.Gary in Fairbanks

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Hey Gary, thanks a lot for that interesting piece of information. Didn't know our bikes didn't hold 2K rpms. We have the same COs for our '07s. I honestly couldn't tell of any difference from 0 to +7 (tried 4,5,and 7), other than the temp went down 1 bar, but that might have been coincidence when I looked at it. Engine still stumbles when blipping the throttle quickly in any of the CO levels mentioned above. I think it surged worse on +7, so I agree the most for my bike is +5. Maybe raising the idle a bit more eliminates the stumble while blipping, but it does not affect rideability for what I can tell.

Please let us know when you finish messing with the CO levels and if any setting eliminated your problem.

But just like you said, none of us ride there while cruising, but that might be part of the reason why the surging, no?

And I also volunteer to try an '06 ECU, even though I'm 120 miles away from the closest mountain. Best would be for 2 people who live in the same town near a mountain to just swap ECUs and go for a ride. And yes, the solution is in the ECU; no question about that. And I bet it's probably the same fix as the FZ1, since they had identical issues... and both are 'world bikes'. Take care.

JC

ELP_JC said:

I thought '06 FJRs also had the surging problem, but apparently not.

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Many '06 owners reported surging issues early on, with many fixes arrived at. But there was not any reports last year of the type of altitude surging being reported this year. The complaints last year were of low speed surging, in traffic for example where it can get exciting, but the bikes always had power.

Some '06 owners this year have reported the same sort of surging the '07 owners have reported, be interesting to see if they are early or late '06's.

So far only early 06's. No late VIN's yet.

TruWrecks said:

So far only early 06's. No late VIN's yet.

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FWIW my bike is an early 06'. Number 23 off the line to be exact. While I didn't experience any surging issues on my recent cross country trek, I only rode thru one abrubt change in altitude (from sea level to maybe 2000') during the trip. I did ride up to Santa Fe which sits about 6000' however the change in altitude was gradual.

I have a Cali model 2006 #212 and I always play hard in the steep mountain. Never any problem, unless I take to near redline and chop the throttle, then immediately regas it. It takes a second or two to power up from that. I am usually try to be more smooth than that, so it has only happened 2 times out of hundreds of trips thru mountains. Not that frequent for me. BTW, BM +7 plus I run the idle at 1150rpm.

06A, 16,000 miles, no mods whatsoever, highest altitute I've been is 6300' on Blue Ridge., no problems with surging at all

I'd be awesome if one of the non-surging '06 bikes would swap ECUs with an '07 and go for a ride. Maybe an '07 owner in LA, or other highly populated city near mountains, can start a separate thread asking for a non-surging '06 FJR to volunteer for the experiment. Don't see it happening any other way, and would be a great experiment. Won't mention that again here, but hope somebody takes the lead on this one. Have a great day folks.

JC

Is there a possibility the Motorcycle Manufacturers had to meet new more stringent EPA standards starting with the 07 model year? If so, could this be the difference why the 06's aren't surging at higher elevations as bad or if they do at all? Hummmmm?

Keep the rubber side down, C1

I think the answer to my post lies in Truwrecks stickied post.

Yamaha has admitted that they removed the sensor in the 2007 that samples the air pressure during operation (The 2006 has this sensor). They now only have one sensor to sample air pressure, and it only takes a reading shortly after the engine starts. It does not take a reading again until the bike is turned off, then back on, hence the need to restart your bikes when it starts acting up. This means that ALL 2007 FJR's will eventually have a problem with altitude.
For those of you who have patiently waited, and helped me collect information, the following is my findings for what I have compiled:

2006:

45-1744 have reported sporadic issues, but no consistent pattern, less the two last in the group. The VINs from lower ranges of the California bikes also show no trend. These appear to be anomalies.

2007:

385-3350 are bikes that appear to have a trend for surging/throttle response issues with altitude changes of ~1000' or greater while ascending or descending.

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and FWIW, my CO levels are the same as Gary in Faribanks's bike: -10,8,8,11