Dogs Gone It!

My 2006, at 22,000 miles has started to demonstrate that feeling of momentary wheel spin at max torque in second gear. I know that this is just the start of the slide toward transmission failure and that I may as well just turn the bike over to the mechanics now. I'm sure it's rounded dogs. My ride is going under general anesthesia on September 12.

That will give me enough time to brace myself for the "you're a squid, you abused it, it's not covered" spiel.

Harumph.

Could be just glazed or worn clutch plates. Much less painful than the transmission.

If I were an eternal optimist, I'd hope for that.

But being a dyed in the wool pessimist and a fan of Newtonian physics (and James Burleigh 5th Grade Essay Contest Entries), I know that coefficients of dynamic friction are always less than coefficients of static friction for the same interface. If it were a slipping clutch, it would continue to slip as long as equal torque were applied. What I'm experiencing is a fraction of a second lurch and then continued strong acceleration. I think the engagement dogs are popping out and reengaging. This will degenerate into a popping out of second gear situation if left unattended, I think.

Sorry to hear that Ari. Any nasty shifting habits you'd to care to share with the forum ? Not trying to broil any calamari, just looking for an education at anothers expense for a change.

After lunch all those that have transmission problems please report to the , Lets learn how to shift class 101 . So we can get startewd and we all can shift together with no further failures... :yahoo:

I hope it os not to serious and costly

Nice!

That's it, I need a workout. Got to be ready for the talk with Yamaha over this. Keep it coming.

Does it do it in all gears, or just second? Do the RPMs jump higher, or do you feel a lunge from it? How much backlash do your bike have in the drive train?

Yamaha had a problem with the FJ 1100's jumping out of second under power.

The fix was to slightly undercut the engagement dogs.

Good luck on the repairs, Let us know what happens.

Ari, what was the name of that Peanuts cartoon kid that was always walking under a storm cloud?

Good luck with the gears. Mama Yama should cover that.

Sorry to hear of your pain, Ari.

While rare, I have heard of a couple of FJR transmission failures.

While up at TechWest this past May (FJRGoodies dealership - Desert Valley Motorsports) they had an FJR torn apart. Apparently, with only about 20,000 or so miles the tranny had failed (worn dogs IIRC) and was being replaced under warranty. I think Yammie had originally tried to say abuse by the owner, but the dealership had fought that on behalf of the owner.

Good luck my friend.

You can likely verify if the gear engagement is slipping by doing the following:

When you shift into 2nd gear keep the shift pedal raised to its highest position with your toe. Don't release it. This will continue to push the shift fork against the sliding splined gear with the questionable dogs. Don't apply a lot of pressure. You're just trying to sense a kickback in the fork.

Now apply maximum engine torque to the transmission. If the three dogs jump out and then reconnect in other openings in the 2nd gear you'll feel it in the shift pedal. Similar to the pulsing one feels in the brake lever or pedal when the ABS operates.

Shifting from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 1st are the most interesting events in the transmission. Having to go through that intermediate neutral position makes these shifts a bit more challenging. Neutral is the transmission's 6th gear.

TruWrecks said:

Does it do it in all gears, or just second? Do the RPMs jump higher, or do you feel a lunge from it? How much backlash do your bike have in the drive train?

Click to expand...

It only does it in second, and only when the bike is quite warm, like a half hour or more of riding. At first, it would only do it on bumpy surfaces, so I was trying to talk myself into this being wheel spin. It happens when you grab a handful of second at 4k and start winding for redline. As the bike sweeps 7K, you get the briefest little burp in the thrust. The lurch is not significant, but you can't avoid noticing it. Casual passages through second are completely normal. I have no significant backlash in the drive train.

SkooterG said:

Sorry to hear of your pain, Ari.
While rare, I have heard of a couple of FJR transmission failures.

While up at TechWest this past May (FJRGoodies dealership - Desert Valley Motorsports) they had an FJR torn apart. Apparently, with only about 20,000 or so miles the tranny had failed (worn dogs IIRC) and was being replaced under warranty. I think Yammie had originally tried to say abuse by the owner, but the dealership had fought that on behalf of the owner.

Good luck my friend.

Click to expand...

Muchas gracias.

Enough about that, though. That's one hell of a ride you put in at the IBR. You gonna bring the medal to NAFO? Please?

Constant Mesh said:

You can likely verify if the gear engagement is slipping by doing the following:
When you shift into 2nd gear keep the shift pedal raised to its highest position with your toe. Don't release it. This will continue to push the shift fork against the sliding splined gear with the questionable dogs. Don't apply a lot of pressure. You're just trying to sense a kickback in the fork.

Now apply maximum engine torque to the transmission. If the three dogs jump out and then reconnect in other openings in the 2nd gear you'll feel it in the shift pedal. Similar to the pulsing one feels in the brake lever or pedal when the ABS operates.

Shifting from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 1st are the most interesting events in the transmission. Having to go through that intermediate neutral position makes these shifts a bit more challenging. Neutral is the transmission's 6th gear.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.

I talked to a tech at the local shop. I haven't talked to this one before (which isn't surprising because their turnover is ridiculous), but he seems to have a clue. The first time I took the bike in they couldn't recreate the problem. I told them the bike had to be well warmed up for it to do it. This tech said he'd be more than happy to spend all the time he needs to on the FJR (heh). He agreed with the diagnosis and also indicated that second, because of the long throw from 1st to second, was the first place it would show up.

Regards.

Stupid question on my part. Would the YES pay for this if you have it?

Don't really see why being warmed up or not would have any effect on this phenomenon, if it's a transmission problem.

Before you try the test I suggested, I'd ask for your tech's blessing. He might have a better test in mind.

ceddec said:

Stupid question on my part. Would the YES pay for this if you have it?

Click to expand...

It depends. There is a well-documented protocol that owners with this problem have to go through that is quite a bit more intricate than, say, the mating dance of a Flamingo.

I go first. I bring the bike to the shop and say, "dood, my bike broke."

Then the service manager will say, "we'll have to have a bike tech inspect your bike. It's not clear that anything is wrong with it until we say so."

Then I'll take a taxi home. The next day, around 1-ish, a call will come into my machine that will give nuances of complete surprise not to find the rider at home. They will say that they've verified that there is a problem, and the only way to fix it will be to pull the engine and do a complete transmission tear down.

I'll call after I get home and try to sound completely competent and knowledgeable, even when they use words like transmission. I'll grumble and say "okay" a lot.

Then the service manager will adopt a very serious tone and demeanor. And he's going to say, "Now this is important. Obviously, if there is a manufacturing defect, you're completely covered by Y.E.S. But this symptom only shows up, ever, on bikes owned by squids. It only happens on R1s, and, well, your bike. So, basically, I'm not falling for your claims of not being a squid, just because you bought the wrong damn blue Yamaha."

Then I'll say, "what, I'm 42, I'm no squid."

Then the service manager will say, "You know, that is weird....we'll just have to see what's what when we get the bike apart."

Then, maybe the next day, the service manager will call back and say, it's rounded dogs. "What's weird", he'll go on, " is that there's no obvious sign of abuse. Usually, there will be scoring on various surfaces, and maybe a bent shifting fork, but not in this case." Then he'll say, "since we can't find a manufacturing defect, it's not covered."

Then I'll say, 1 year and 22,000 miles is not adequate performance for a transmission.

They'll say, yeah, well, all of the other FJRs are just fine.

Then I'll say, not all, I've heard of a few...

Then they'll say, yours is the only one that's had a problem in our customer base.

Then I'll say, seems like a rare fluke, good thing there's a warranty.

We'll go round and round like this.

Eventually, just like in a Flamingo Mating Ritual, somebody comes out on top.

Ari Rankum said:

ceddec said:

Stupid question on my part. Would the YES pay for this if you have it?

Click to expand...

It depends. There is a well-documented protocol that owners with this problem have to go through that is quite a bit more intricate than, say, the mating dance of a Flamingo.

...........................................................

Then I'll say, seems like a rare fluke, good thing there's a warranty.

We'll go round and round like this.

Eventually, just like in a Flamingo Mating Ritual, somebody comes out on top.

Click to expand...

Ahh, its all very clear now. Still trying to figure out if I need to call D&H though. Good luck in your dance. Well said.

Ari Rankum said:

....that feeling of momentary wheel spin at max torque in second gear."

Click to expand...

I've felt that, too, on other bikes at max throttle and with the engine wound up. The cause was always one or both of 2 things:

> Hard tires, and/or

> Cool/cold tires and/or streets.

I'll be surprised if there's anything wrong with your bike unless you've used a low-friction motor oil (non-JASO spec) or slick oil additive in your engine. That would make your clutch plates slick.

Good luck. I hope they tell you to buy some softer, stickier tires. ;^)

IRBR