Front Brake Failure on '05 ABS

Wow, today I had a great riding day with my buddies, really great twisties. On the way home, I noticed some bizarre braking behavior. Fortunately they were working, but they felt weird. I'd have braking power, but then the lever would slowly creep back to the bar. I was thinking, it's time to bleed the brakes. I made it all the way home without incident, thank God.

Tonight, I went out to the garage, and just pulled the lever, and it went straight back to the bar with no resistence at all. This freaked me out. I started poking around with a flashlight and found a small amount of brake fluid under the reservoir. I also found a much larger amount on the 3-way coupler/manifold leading to the front calipers. I opened up the reservoir, and it was almost empty. There is no visible leak that I can see anywhere.

Some more details...

I have a non-gull wing Superbrace. Though this may be the culprit, it doesn't explain the brake fluid up top by the handle bar.

Last week I changed out my tires for new ones. I've inspected the lines to see if I pinched anything, it does not appear so.

The back brake works, which doesn't make sense to me, as the ABS is one giant system.

Now the questions that I could really use help with...

I've got a full set of Spieglers from the group buy sitting around. Should I tear everything down and replace with those?

Should I bring the bike to Yamaha and have them sort things? FYI, my dealer sucks.

My tank, fender and some black dash panels had brake fluid on them. I've wiped everything up, but is there going to be permanent damage to my paint? Is there a recommended cleaning procedure?

Sounds like just about what happened to me on my '05 ABS. I slapped the front end and ended up with a slight ding in my old-style Superbrace....there to this day. Rode 800 miles and no issues, but at a stoplight I grabbed the brake extra hard and it got mushy all of a sudden. After that it just seemed to let go.

Rode home with the rear brake (it may go into the ABS unit, but the front and back on Gen I are separate circuits), wiped up the fluid from the manifold area, and replaced with my Spieglers. I, however, didn't have significant fluid around the master cylinder. Maybe just a bit of crud, no leakage...so not sure about that.

I'd check for a ding on your brace and look at the manifold as you grab a handful of brake in the garage (after topping up).

And brake fluid is NASTY on paint. If it's been there, it's already too late. Won't take long. . . .

And the ABS doesn't make it the one big system you're thinking of. Front lever works one rear piston, rear brake pedal works 2 front pistons, IIRC. That gives either control a light touch at the other end. Beyond that they remain completely independant.

Since fluid is all over the top, sounds like a master cylinder problem, or bottom of the reservoir. Reservoir been bashed, used as a farkle mount for something too heavy?

No, the brakes are not linked on the Gen I bikes. The front and back are independent, even with ABS.

Yes, clean the brake fluid off ASAP - eat eats paint for lunch.

I would replace/upgrade to Spieglers - they are a PITA to install, especially the factory brackets that they do not supply, but really make a difference in the feel. No more mushy brake lever. I would fix the problem at the manifold first, then see if the reservoir leaks resolves. Who knows, maybe it freaked out due to sucking air...

-BD

I concur with Ignacio's post. It has been reported here before. That's why many of us who kept the original styl forkbrace have taken a file and dremel to them for clearance of the "union/manifold" where the slave cylinder hoses are joined to the hose from the front master cylinder (just under the headlight area).

The first person who had the occurance posted that there was a mark on his fork brace and that the "union" was slightly bent. When he disassebled th hoses from the coupler he boud that it had bent enough to crack and leak fluid.

Thanks for the replies...

I'm going to swap out for the Spieglers today. I can't stand to see my bike out of commission.

Can anyone find the thread on the original manifold failure? I've searched and read a dozen threads with no joy. I'd like to compare notes. There is a ding on my brace, but that was there a while, before I set the suspension to firm. I'm thinking that I probably bottomed the suspension yesterday, and re-hit the Superbrace.

Also, does anyone know if there is a picture of the Spielger manifold. I found a detailed write up, but a picture would be better.

Sounds like my paint is hosed, no matter how quickly I cleaned up, right?

You are only hosed on the paint if the paint is actually damaged. If it isn't, don't worry about it!

Here is an old thread that has good info and my results from the upgrade. It was a PITA, as you can see, but ultimately worth it, IMO. Why Yammi does not put stainless lines on as OEM is beyond me. I think it is an insult, and I would gladly pay a few bucks more for these. BMW does it, geez.

EDIT AGAIN: My pictures in below thread fixed.

Click here and hard!!!

-BD

BrunDog said:

No, the brakes are not linked on the Gen I bikes. The front and back are independent, even with ABS.

Click to expand...

Didn't even see that it was an '05. The thread title and his avatar info completely eluded me.

Can I get big DUH??

Two comments. The thread should be re-titled 'brake failure', not ABS failure. A lot of people are wary of ABS for threads like this, when it has nothing to do with the problem. In fact, this brake problem has nothing to do with Yamaha; it was caused by a modification. Just setting the record straight.

And as a FYI, ALL vehicles must have TWO independent braking circuits by federal law (don't remember since when, but it's been decades), including motorcycles. Gen IIs are linked indeed, but not front to back; only back to front (hence the 2nd nipple on the right caliper). Later gang.

JC

ELP_JC said:

The thread should be re-titled 'brake failure', not ABS failure. A lot of people are wary of ABS for threads like this, when it has nothing to do with the problem. In fact, this brake problem has nothing to do with Yamaha; it was caused by a modification. Just setting the record straight.

Click to expand...

"Front Brake Failure on '05 ABS" is confusing? Whatever. :blink:

Seems like everybody else correctly divined it was a brake failure that happen to be on a bike that was ABS equipped and not an ABS issue. ...and I'm pretty sure wfooshee's response is a thing called sarcasm.

No title change needed. Thanks for playing though.

OK, thread titles aside, the bike in back online.

I disassembled everything, but could not find any visible leaks. There was an abundance of fluid around the manifold. I think I contacted the superbrace on a hard bump.

I've replaced all the lines with the Spieglers. It took me around 5 hours, mainly because of clearance issues. There are tight confines around the steering head. A stubby 10mm wrench would have made a difference. Making the steering head bracket was a chore. All in all, I'm sorry I didn't change them out sooner.

I rode up and down the block a few times as a brief checkout, I'll do a proper shakedown in the morning.

I'm really concerned about the long term damage to my paint now. Brake fluid got everywhere. The only immediate damage I see is the Yamaha logo on the tank. The clear plastic has some permanent bubbles from a splash of fluid. I'm going to replace this of course.

Thanks to all for the help and replies. I needed reassurance that I could handle the situation and the repair. This forum always comes through!

Ignacio said:

No title change needed.

Click to expand...

So the title wasn't changed :dribble: ? My apologies. And no, I'm not a sarcastic person... nor brand loyal, but didn't want Yamaha burned for something it didn't deserve. Alzheimer's must be setting in early, as I could swear it read 'ABS brake failure'. Sorry again folks.

And if the only damage is a Yamaha logo on the tank, get rid of them buddy. I did, and bike looks much better. You'd still be providing plenty of free advertising with the one in front and on the triple tree. Glad your brakes didn't fail at a more inopportune time. Take care.

JC

Bike is back at 100%, confirmed after long ride. I gave the bike the most thorough washing it's ever gotten as well. My buddy who is a Ferrari master mechanic says that brake fluid is not going to harm today's paints, provided it is removed quickly.

Thanks again for the hand holding.

Good to hear your bikes back up and running. Now before you go riding off too far I would highly suggest you either modify your Superbrace so it doesn't happen again, replace it with a gull wing one, or take it off. It would really suck to see you having the same problem again.

vectervp1 said:

Good to hear your bikes back up and running. Now before you go riding off too far I would highly suggest you either modify your Superbrace so it doesn't happen again, replace it with a gull wing one, or take it off. It would really suck to see you having the same problem again.

Click to expand...

Gunny!

From what it sounds like, you still haven't addressed the root cause. Or did going to the Spieglers get rid of that manifold?

ELP_JC said:

Ignacio said:

No title change needed.

Click to expand...

So the title wasn't changed :dribble: ? My apologies. And no, I'm not a sarcastic person... nor brand loyal, but didn't want Yamaha burned for something it didn't deserve. Alzheimer's must be setting in early, as I could swear it read 'ABS brake failure'. Sorry again folks.

And if the only damage is a Yamaha logo on the tank, get rid of them buddy. I did, and bike looks much better. You'd still be providing plenty of free advertising with the one in front and on the triple tree. Glad your brakes didn't fail at a more inopportune time. Take care.

JC

Click to expand...

I can't read titles either, apparently, so don't feel bad. I completely missed the "05" and answered for GenII linked brakes.

I can recover from this, though. I'm very experienced at public foolishness.

SkooterG said:

vectervp1 said:

Good to hear your bikes back up and running. Now before you go riding off too far I would highly suggest you either modify your Superbrace so it doesn't happen again, replace it with a gull wing one, or take it off. It would really suck to see you having the same problem again.

Click to expand...

Gunny!

From what it sounds like, you still haven't addressed the root cause. Or did going to the Spieglers get rid of that manifold?

Click to expand...

Yes, the manifold is different. I know that after I installed my Spieglers I felt comfortable with clearance and kept the brace. It has a ding in it to remind me of racing Dick Fish across the playa in the middle of the night and being lucky enough not to become a statistic.

The manifold is very different and much higher up, so this is not likely to happen.