While the engine's open

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Checkswrecks

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I've got a 2004 that I bought a year ago with very few miles and it now has 18000. I took it in for the TPS recall a few weeks ago and the junior mech thought that rather than a ticker, my noise was something from the cat converter loose in the head pipe. He's young, had only one side fairing off, and I knew I'd be in there soon. I had the fairings off over the weekend to flush coolant & do the winter mx and got out the ol' stethoscope. No question, it's the #1 exhaust. I showed it to the service manager, he agreed, and he explained it to Yamaha HQ.

I'm the second owner of a 4-year old bike and Yamaha agreed to do parts and labor for the exahaust valves. I'm on the hook for anything else, which sounds fair to me. I previously worked at a Suzuki dealer and got shafted by Triumph's lack of support on a common Sprint problem.

[SIZE=12pt]So before anything else, because of their doing the right thing, my hat's off to Yamaha and when the time comes, I'll look at new Yamahas. [/SIZE] Actually, I've been drooling over 2008s, but that's another story...

Having been around here awhile and using the search function, I knew to order up the head bolts and I asked for a quote on doing the intakes. What I'm surprised about is to hear how little else people have had issues with. I saw IonBeam's string about cam chain tensioners, but little else.

So here's my question: While the top of the motor's apart, is the group experience with needing other items as good/quiet as it seems?

Bob

 
Well, Ionbeam (the depressed) sez, have them carefully inspect the cam chain tensioner, actually run the plunger in & out looking for consistant spring pressure. Inspect the gear on the crank shaft that drives the cam chain for wear. Inspect the cam chain slipper. And, inspect the cam chain for wear. If your engine is like the vast majority there should be no problems. If you have had no problems with shifting or the way the clutch engages you are done. If there are issues with the trans/clutch now is the time to address them.

Are the guides, seals and valves being replaced? If yes, you should be getting back a better than new engine.

 
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We're definitely past valve adjustment noise. Actually, somebody at EOM said taht his ticker sounded like it before he had his fixed, so I've had an idea that it'd come to this.

Ionbeam, thanks for the input. We've already discussed the timing chain, guides, and tensioner. Figured with going on condition of how they look.

I was actually kind of trolling to see if anybody'd seen anything of concern with intake valves while we're in there?

What's strange is that I normally do most of my own work, so this having a dealer do it (even if Yamaha pays) is a new thing that I need to come to grips with.

 
If you are already in the engine as deep as I think, there's NO WAY I would not replace the cam chain. I show it currently selling for $12.72.

If you are determined to inspect it for "wear", check the timing relationship of the two cams to each other. If there is any noticeable difference in the timing mark positions between the intake and exhaust cams, REPLACE THE CHAIN WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE. It will give you more of a horsepower boost than buying pipes, and for $12.72 you can't beat it.

 
Good - I see you asked for a quote on the intakes.

when they repaired my '05 ticker I had them replace the intake valve guides at the same time "just in case" even though the problem is/was the exhaust guides.

They charged me for the parts only and it was something like $75

That was at 18.5k miles and now at 49k miles the bike is running STRONG and silent.

Good luck - when its done your bike will be what it is supposed to be.

 
If I might pile on here and slightly change the direction:

I need to have my valves checked (actually overdue about 1.5k) -- what else would folks suggest/recommend I have done at the same time? I've never done this myself so I don't understand what is "open" or accessable during a valve check.

Thanks.

 
The cooling system is apart for the job, if over 24 thousand miles (a figure I just pulled outta my ass) a new thermostat would be a good idea. A thorough cleaning of the throttle body plates would be easy now, as well as a careful inspection of the intake manifolds, any deterioration would be easy to spot, though unlikely, but still..... Cleaning and inspection of the reed valves for the AIR would also be easy now, if they are still in place. Inspection/replacement of the water manifold (head to thermostat housing) is called for-the wells the tubes run into at the valve cover retain rain/water/dirt, and the manifold corrodes rather quickly as a result. I wouldn't replace the intake valves, but new seals, as well as a valve lapping, would insure perfect sealing, and restore horsies usually slowly lost over time, in fact, you may find the bike has never felt stronger. Many hi perf motors I've built have benefited from a valve freshening soon after a new build, if only because once everything has seated, small variances creep in.

 
If you are already in the engine as deep as I think, there's NO WAY I would not replace the cam chain. I show it currently selling for $12.72.
If you are determined to inspect it for "wear", check the timing relationship of the two cams to each other. If there is any noticeable difference in the timing mark positions between the intake and exhaust cams, REPLACE THE CHAIN WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE. It will give you more of a horsepower boost than buying pipes, and for $12.72 you can't beat it.

OK then, if you replace the chain, would you replace the cam gears also?

Since Ion's failed (the tensioner) wouldn't that be good to replace too?

I'm interested in how much tooth wear Ion's crankshaft gear showed. You certainly don't want to have to replace that.

 
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You can find a valve adjustment VISUAL AID on the FJR1300 dot INFO site, written by Torch.

There is no factory spec for the cam chain gear on the crank, we had to get a Yamaha tech come inspect the gear for wear and distortion before it was declared 'good'. The gear is part of the crankshaft; the whole crank has to be replaced if the gear is bad. In the above link, about 2/3 the way down the page is a picture of the gold colored timing plate on the crank shaft, the cam chain gear is behind this plate. The cam gears are replaceable but probably won't ever wear enough to need replacement.

As stated earlier, the cam chain is cheap (and inexpensive too), replace it. The cam chain tensioner isn't that expensive but it is located in a place that is hell to get at (unless you happen to have the engine already out of the frame).

FWIW, Jake, my mechanic says that the FJR cam chain tensioner is similar in design to the early Connie's, and the Connies had so many failures that Kawasaki finally redesigned the part. The ratchet mechanism is alleged to have small teeth spaced in a way that sometimes it does not ratchet up a tooth and take up slack, also it may not engage completely causing the adjuster to release (ding, ding). Additionally, the adjuster spring sometimes seems to loose some of its spring.

I hope to have my bike back by the end of next week. We will go through the box of garbage parts and see if Yamaha wants any of them or we may keep some parts to file a reimbursement claim. I will do a scientific analysis of physical evidence as best I can when it all comes home :lol:

 
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Cam chain tensioner would be great. But like IonBeam said, it depends on how deep you are or are planning to go. It's not an easy swap.

Your profile says you have an 04. If it was my 04 it would have over 100,000 miles on it. Mileage has a lot to do with cam chain and tensioner wear. But at four years of age, time is starting to run a close second.

It's your call and there's no way I could give any better advice without a first-hand inspection. If the chain and tensioner are kept in good condition (along with obvious things like oil changes) then the cam chain gears should outlast the frame.

:)

 
Heeding 'ionbeam's advice (Jake's, too) would be shrewd, imo -- a good visual inspection of all cam-timing aparatus: chain, guides, sprockets, and (most of all) tensioner assy. Actually, the chain can be measured -- total length between a number of pins -- (there may be a spec in the shop manual?). If not, there will be a spec for Morse Hy-Vo chains, in general (somewhere?). Also the plastic parts (guides) can be measured and compared to new (beyond just visual). But it's usually the tensioner that's the source of cam-chain problems -- and has been for decades. Ever since 'automatic' cam-chain tensioners came on the scene, there have been a certain percentage of failures (and some companies have retrofitted many times -- altho, not -- for the FJR). Racers used to take-off the automatic and replace with a manual cam-chain tensioner (or, modify the automatic to manual).

So, carefully inspect the tensioner (as 'ionbeam' says) -- good strong spring, no burrs on the plunger shaft, ratchet mechanism working propery -- if it's good, it's good (no problem).

No need replacing good parts with more good parts -- you need only replace the bad/worn parts.

 
ionbeam - thanks for the link, don't know why, but I hadn't read that one before. Now that I've read it, this doesn't actually look all that difficult - ASSUMING the valves are within spec. Gotta think on this one...thanks again.

 
Cam chain tensioner would be great. But like IonBeam said, it depends on how deep you are or are planning to go. It's not an easy swap.
Not sure why you say this. I can do a tensioner swap in about a half hour to 45 minutes I'm guessing, plastic off to plastic on, it's readily accessible, one of the more accessible pieces on the bike.

 
Cam chain tensioner would be great. But like IonBeam said, it depends on how deep you are or are planning to go. It's not an easy swap.
Not sure why you say this. I can do a tensioner swap in about a half hour to 45 minutes I'm guessing, plastic off to plastic on, it's readily accessible, one of the more accessible pieces on the bike.
Hmmm, I suspect that the typical FJR do-it-yourselfer with a typical set of home garage mechanics tools will find the cam chain tensioner's engine bolts to be a fiddly access problem. I also suspect that the adjuster's bolt in the end of the cam chain tensioner will drive the average home mechanic insane. The hole in the frame that's on the cam chain tensioner side will become a black hole into the stygian depths for the bolt and/or washer PDQ. Thank goodness the parts are magnetic...

One of the two cam chain tensioner's retainer bolts is fairly accessible but the other will probably be a problem for an average mechanic.

I, on the other hand had no problem at all -- with that engine just sittin' there on the floor :bad:

 
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Not sure why you say this. I can do a tensioner swap in about a half hour to 45 minutes I'm guessing, plastic off to plastic on, it's readily accessible, one of the more accessible pieces on the bike.
Radman,

Go look in the mirror, you are NOT the average mechanic.

:)

 
Not sure why you say this. I can do a tensioner swap in about a half hour to 45 minutes I'm guessing, plastic off to plastic on, it's readily accessible, one of the more accessible pieces on the bike.
Radman,

Go look in the mirror, you are NOT the average mechanic.

:)
No, but I have to admit, the only time I've played with the tensioner was to set the valves, so I could be talkin' out my ass, for the first time. :p But then, much has been written here about the difficulty in doing this, accessing that, when in reality it often turns out the perceptions of the writer were taken as gospel, without really being able to take the abilities of the writer into account, due to the wide ranging locations of this bunch, and few knowing each other intimately. I might rate a valve adjust as a 2-3 in difficulty on a scale of 10, while some would rate it a 15-20 on the same scale. Having had to repair many attempts at repair by numbskulls on more than a few machines, it's certainly reasonable to hope one knows his limits, and refers work beyond them to someone who knows. On the other hand, I didn't start out at this in pro form-countless disasters have helped hone the skills I now have, so on that hand, ya don't learn if ya don't try. Mistakes come with the territory... ;)

 
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This writer is warning that the cam chain tensioner could be a real PITA. I also warned that one of the TPS screws could be a PITA. While I had little trouble with either one myself, I could sure see others with limited tools and/or experience having a bitch of a time.

I've done valve adjustments for... well, since the '60s and yet I would mention to newbies of this job that there is some learning involved as to what a 'light slip fit' with a feeler gauge means when checking the valve gap.

I try to write for (my idea of what) the 80% group would find helpful, which sometimes is not a reflection of my personal experience. Depending on how the discussion goes I may come back in with more details. Jestal supplies the encyclopedia content and Odot explains how it relates to gerbils and trees ;) :lol:

 
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