Frank has issues

Been chasing a vibration that won't TBS out, and it's been driving me nuts. So, drag out Big Snappy, and guess what I see?

1&2

CO .86

CO2 6.19

HC 14

3&4

CO 1.99

CO2 2.4

HC 4098

Houston, we have a problem.

OK, I'll bite. While I understand the basics of the internal combustion engine, I don't know what those numbers mean, other than 1&2 read differently than 3&4 which is probably "bad." What do it mean, and why would the readings be the same for 2 "pairs" vice for each individual cylinder? And if I may edit, what should the readings be?

Thank you professor!

OK, I'll guess that Big Snappy is a Snap-On analyzer and those numbers indicate some major fluctuation. That's about all I can make out of this. Maybe something going on with the PCIII or the reworked injectors you have? Am I even close?

#4 plug black as the ace of spades, the injector is dumping big time. And I mean dumping. Good thing I've got spares. High HC means extremely rich, unburned mixture exiting the workhouse. This blows.

Understanding the numbers

Was it you that got the spendy flow matched set not that long ago? Is this the set I'm thinking about?

slapnpop said:

Was it you that got the spendy flow matched set not that long ago? Is this the set I'm thinking about?

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Yup. Wasn't spendy though, but still............all 4 plugs out, only 4 is full of soot. Injectors can fail, regardless of any other factors, I wouldn't write off the service just yet. The others look good. It explains the goddamn vibration I've been beating my head against the wall with anyway, and thats actually a good thing, now I can fix it :yahoo:

Edit-HC is back to normal-could be it was a bad plug. Time will tell.

JimLor said:

OK, I'll bite. While I understand the basics of the internal combustion engine, I don't know what those numbers mean, other than 1&2 read differently than 3&4 which is probably "bad." What do it mean, and why would the readings be the same for 2 "pairs" vice for each individual cylinder? And if I may edit, what should the readings be?Thank you professor!

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I'll take a WAG that the sensor's are stuck in the exhaust pipe exits -- hense -- 1&2 measured then 3&4 (move the sensor from one side to the other. To get all 4 seperate -- you'd have to have access to individual exhaust pipes, and I'm not certain -- but I don't believe there's access on the FJR unless you welded on some bosses the drilled/tapped them.

Perhaps Frank is a little upset at you for pimping him out to every guy in a uniform. :huh:

radman said:

could be it was a bad plug. Time will tell.

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That was my first thought looking at your numbers. (not that I'm a tech or anything...)

radman said:

#4 plug black as the ace of spades, the injector is dumping big time. And I mean dumping. Good thing I've got spares. High HC means extremely rich, unburned mixture exiting the workhouse. This blows.
Understanding the numbers

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Rad,

I am sorry to hear about Frank's problems...but this is the same problem I am having with mine even after the New Head/Valves install. My #4 is Black and my mileage is 32 to 24mpg.

Do you have RivNuts installed to get your CO etc numbers? This is what I may have to do next to get my bike properly tuned.

I am interested in what you find out for this is frustrating situation and the mechanics don't have a clue.

After replacing the plugs, numbers look good. No issues on hot starting (a leaky injector would tend to flood that cylinder). He's never shown any sign of loading up, nor any other indication that a leaky or super rich injector might display. Mileage has been dropping, running rougher, vibration getting worse, hence my digging further. I suspect the plug has been bad all along, as the vibration thing began, as I think back, about when I replaced them, though I never made the connection. Rode home nice and smooth, though I had leaned #4 20 points just to be on the safe side. I'm gonna bring him back up, and re-run the whole shebang tomorrow, we'll see whats what.

03HiYoSilver said:

Rad,I am sorry to hear about Frank's problems...but this is the same problem I am having with mine even after the New Head/Valves install. My #4 is Black and my mileage is 32 to 24mpg.

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Black is fuel, possibly oil, but more likely fuel-overly rich due to a bad injector,or, like Frank, bad plug/wire/coil. Not that tough to figger out.

03HiYoSilver said:

Do you have RivNuts installed to get your CO etc numbers? This is what I may have to do next to get my bike properly tuned.

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No, but I do have a Holeshot header, which is a 4-2 configuration, and no cats, so that I am at least able to separate the two sides for testing purposes. For a machine with the oe exhaust, Rivnuts is pretty much the only option.

03HiYoSilver said:

I am interested in what you find out for this is frustrating situation and the mechanics don't have a clue.

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I would suggest different mechanics

Hey Radman, did you get CO, CO2, and HC numbers right after getting your injectors flow matched? I'm thinking about doing that, but need 'proof' it's going to be better than stock. And the other question is what to do with CO levels after that? Not all cylinders need the same fuel, so +0 might not be the best thing to do. Thoughts?

And how many miles on your '05?

JC

Radman,

Thanks for the reply.

radman said:

For a machine with the oe exhaust, Rivnuts is pretty much the only option.

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Hence the Problem...this is not covered under warranty work, so it is strictly guessing until the RivNuts are installed(probably by myself later)

<I would suggest different mechanics >

That is easier said than done.

03HiYoSilver said:

Radman,Thanks for the reply.

radman said:

For a machine with the oe exhaust, Rivnuts is pretty much the only option.

Click to expand...

Hence the Problem...this is not covered under warranty work, so it is strictly guessing until the RivNuts are installed(probably by myself later)

<I would suggest different mechanics >

That is easier said than done.

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I missed the previous info you may have posted on this but just for ideas it is most likely a plug or an injector. If the plug has been replaced but the injector still checks "good" then swap that injector with another cylinder and see if the problem follows the injector to the other cylinder. Pretty quick and easy way to isolate an injector problem.

Thanks Jestal,

I'll give that idea a shot next. I even bought an injector myself, just in case this was the culprit. The Shops didn't diagnose as such, so that is my next step in correcting this problem after I ride a few miles to how all the new plugs fare.

Thanks for the Idea!

I know that when my mechanic "leveled" the CO settings on the computer on my '03, he reported that three of the cylinders were set extremely lean and the third was very rich. He averaged the lot and behold the bike ran crisper and smoother! In my time lurking, I don't recall if Frank ever had a power commander or the ECU mod...

But if I were to follow the KISS rule, sparkplug and wire would have to be high on the list, though it seems to be more of a symptom than a cause (to me - I can hope to be wrong on this, right?).

TexBahn said:

I know that when my mechanic "leveled" the CO settings on the computer on my '03, he reported that three of the cylinders were set extremely lean and the third was very rich. He averaged the lot and behold the bike ran crisper and smoother! In my time lurking, I don't recall if Frank ever had a power commander or the ECU mod...
But if I were to follow the KISS rule, sparkplug and wire would have to be high on the list, though it seems to be more of a symptom than a cause (to me - I can hope to be wrong on this, right?).

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Frank has the PCIII, the Barb mod of course, and pretty much everything that is available short of Boost unt Nitrous ya. I, like so many, am prone to "worst scenario syndrome", especially when it comes to my pal. After I finish up some work on another FJR, I'm off to the shop to do a full Snappy hook up and test set, since I have it out and ready, you'd think for 40 g's I would be able to just point the thing at him and wait for the diagnosis. Stupid machines.......

Rad, Frank is ticked off, no pun intended, about not going to WFO. He just wants to be out there with his buddies don't ya know...You guy's will be missed! PM. <><