Going to the Dark Side, Mounting a car tire on the FJR's rear wheel Options

[OCfjr]

Just curious--do you notice any change when walking the bike around? Is it harder to maneuver?

No more difficult than any other tire.

OK seriously, what kinda mileage are you guys getting out of a front.

Now, maybe the 2nd half of the equation is something like a Metzler Marathon on the front. Seems you've already tossed the whole "balanced tire pairing" idea out the window once you go darkside, so why not put a hard wearing Me880 of some damn 17" rim size on the front? Pro'lly doesn't need to be the traditional 120/70 profile either.

I have run the Me880 Radial. I'm a bit shy to run the bias ply for the riding I do. That might sound funny, but I've had enough sliding around on Radial Me880s in the rain, so not too sure I want to try the bias. I agree that the 120/70 wouldn't necessarily need to be maintained, though tire clearance is an issue at some point. Some of the Wing Darksiders use a rear tire, run reverse rotation, on the front for longer tread life there.

From my tire log, specifically front tire life and comments:

OE BT-020 ---------- 9200 - Cupped badly, noisy/bumpy and to the wear bars.
Avon ST45 Azaro -- 13,025 - Cupped to the point where it was noticeable going strait. Not to the wear bars.
Conti Road Attack -- 14,049 - Big tread blocks, cupping noticeably at 13k, but still smooth going strait and ok in corners.
Me880R -------------- 10,047 - squared off, ok, but odd handling at turn in. Matched rear wear, both wearing out at once.
Avon ST45----------- 16,986 - Badly cupped. To wear bars. (really ran this too long, crappy handling for the last 3k)
Pilot Road ----------- 9181 - Wobble for first 500 miles, odd wear, tankslapper city w/o hands. Not quite at wear bars.
BT-021--------------- 5392 - Worn evenly, some cupping - pulled early for a rally.
BT-021--------------- 9747 - Nasty cupping & uneven wear, (what the other 021 was heading for)
Dunlop RoadSmart - 6387 - Uneven wear after 3500, ok traction, at wear bars.
Avon ST45(NOS)---- 9606 - Cupped badly, not quite to wear bars.

Current tire is a Conti Motion. Only 2500 or so at this point, so insufficient data for conclusions.

[coastalcop]

Made it back from the big bend country without darksiding if just barely. One last question to put to you before I pull the trigger on this one. Does anyone have any two up time on an fjr with the CT, or a like amount of weight (150lbs or so) oin the passenger position to determine how that might change handling characteristics? Again thanks for testing the practical application for us!

[OCfjr]

Made it back from the big bend country without darksiding if just barely. One last question to put to you before I pull the trigger on this one. Does anyone have any two up time on an fjr with the CT, or a like amount of weight (150lbs or so) oin the passenger position to determine how that might change handling characteristics? Again thanks for testing the practical application for us!

I ride two up now and then with the 200 lb SO, (in gear), w/o issues. She can't tell the difference, but it does seem to keep slightly more rubber on the road in corners with her back there. Nice and smooth. Not much changes, handling wise, with the passenger on board. I do have a hydraulic preload adjuster for the Wilbers shock, and I do adjust it up some for the girl. I have forgotten a couple of times and she simply thought she was getting a softer ride or I was missing more bumps. (it was running more sag than I prefer though)

Normally I ride with a 45 lb fuel cell, with 4.8 x (what ever gas weighs), and a saddle bag full of misc, the other often with clothes, etc. Rally load is likely over 150 lbs too.

[coastalcop]

Ok so I pulled the trigger on a test tire. Found a 205/50 zr17 all weather performance tire on fleabay with 80% tread left at 8/32 symetrical design and the shipped to my door price was $48.00. Figured the 20% wear would let me get the feel right away without having to scrub in a new tire. As soon as it gets here then I call in a favor of the local road and bridge guys to help me mount it. Another convert to the dark side. Just talking about it to the guys got at least three others ( one winger, and two harley guys) thinking about it. I am having trouble finding a fitment for the harleys but i am still hopeful for them. I will add input and pics when during the install.

[RadioHowie]

Y'know, getting one with only 80% of the tread left means you're only gonna get 6 times the life of a MC tire instead of 8.

[coastalcop]

Yes but im less likely to die in a fiery ball of liquid aluminum death while trying to scrub the new off of the rear tire I mean I am sure to diiiiieeee for puttin a ct on my moto, thankfully with the economy the way it is right now Im worth more dead than alive........ come to think of it, I believe I have always been worth more dead. Oh well, saves me worrying bout ridin!

[OCfjr]

@Coastalcop - I'd be interested to know what exact tire you end up with so I can peek at the spec sheet for it. PM if you prefer. I seem to recall the newer HDs running an 18" rear wheel. Finding a fitment might be tough unless they are running a 200+ wide tire already. I worry about belt clearance. If they run a 240+ already, probably something out there in a CT that's pretty close in width.

That would make a great picture though, a FJR, Wing and HD side by side all runing CTs.

As always, we will dissallow all knowledge of your ex.... Opps, wrong thread. As always, post up your impressions once you get some miles under your butt with the CT. The more viewpoints we get, the easier it is for the next guy to decide yeah, or nay on the CT idea.

[doug5551]

Darkside FJR #3

Bridgestone Potenza 019 Grid





Pictures of the custom single-sided Brake Tension Bar. I have a Audiovox Cruise Control and the canister had to be moved.





Installed CT with the Bridgestone 21 take off given to me by Reno John after the Nevada 1099 next to it:



Taking the Moto Tire home while on my first ride with the CT



I have about 1500 miles on the CT since I put it on May 30. It works just fine. I have ridden about 300 miles of twisties over the last several days along Highways 330, 18, and 38 in Southern California. The CT is stable in turns and just takes a little more steering effort in Sweepers.

[SkooterG]

Cats and dogs, living together!

[wheatonFJR]

Cats and dogs, living together!

Correction...cats and dogs, having sex with each other.

[OCfjr]

Cats and dogs, living together!

Correction...cats and dogs, having sex with each other.

As long as it's consensual, don't ask, don't tell. And who let the friggin cat out anyway? Skooter!

[RadioHowie]

Damn if that don't look like it would last about a million miles.

First thing when I (ever) get my FJR back together.....Put on a Potenza.

Me Likey!

[Calimus]

Glad to see that you guy's are having good luck with this. My father went Darkside with his VTX1800 almost a year ago. I rode it when the tire was fresh, didn't care for it much. I've ridden it a few times since and as he's worn down the sides (he rides that thing like a sport bike, not a cruiser) the cornering gets easier. He's been trying to talk me into this as well, so this thread is a bit comforting to come acrossed.

As much as I'd like to be tearing up the mountains that are oh-so-close by, I find that most of my FJR time is on the slab going back/forth to work. I'm lucky to get 4k miles out of a rear thanks to the horrible pavement on the slab here so I just might have to go darkside and try it out. Thanks for all the leg work & experimentation guys, good on ya.

[Fred W]

I'm waiting for the Jeff Ashe report on these car tires...


<g,d,r>

[OCfjr]

I'm waiting for the Jeff Ashe report on these car tires...

I'd love to see that report! That gent's pretty rich though, judging from all the tires he buys. Not sure he wants we could get him to test the Darkside.

[rogdeb]

Eric lots of thanks for the testing, etc, of the CT. Been following this thread with great interest.
You really have me considering this for my next tire change, if only for the cost savings. Can't see the negative side, if any, can be detrimental. Just a dealership to install one with no liability issue it seems.

Damn if that don't look like it would last about a million miles.

First thing when I (ever) get my FJR back together.....Put on a Potenza.

Me Likey!

I think this photo made my mind up

[jwhite518]

Losing sleep to change a tire at a checkpoint during the IBR is lame if you don't need to do it. And no one should DNF for a tire issue, that would be down right sad.

I can't let this one go by. With a spare rear wheel and someone helping you out, getting a fresh tire shouldn't take more than about 15 minutes. Half hour max, and that's if one of the parts rolls away.

We're looking at this from different sides of the fence. You're willing to sacrifice performance (1) to save a buck, I'm willing to pay for performance with money and time. Just different viewpoints.

(1) This is where the darksiders say that there's absolutely no performance loss with a car tire. I insist there must be some. When people start using them on the racetrack, I'll believe it.

[meosborn]

Losing sleep to change a tire at a checkpoint during the IBR is lame if you don't need to do it. And no one should DNF for a tire issue, that would be down right sad.

I can't let this one go by. With a spare rear wheel and someone helping you out, getting a fresh tire shouldn't take more than about 15 minutes. Half hour max, and that's if one of the parts rolls away.

We're looking at this from different sides of the fence. You're willing to sacrifice performance (1) to save a buck, I'm willing to pay for performance with money and time. Just different viewpoints.

(1) This is where the darksiders say that there's absolutely no performance loss with a car tire. I insist there must be some. When people start using them on the racetrack, I'll believe it.

From what I've been reading there is performance loss with at MC tire. It just depends on what performance you're talking about, tread life, traction, handling, etc. Everything is a trade off. If you are pushing your MC tire to the limit with no self control then maybe the CT isn't for you. Every tire has it's limits and every rider has to be able to ride within the limits of the tire that's on the bike. If that wasn't the case, we would all be riding the FJR with racing tires all the time and getting 1000 miles per set.

[FJR DaveH]

I must say that the pictures, explanations and commentary still leave me wonder why. But, I guess it's one of those things that if you have to ask.....

[Cavy]

I tried to just start this in NEPRT, but you can't start threads there. I'm sure a helpful admin will move it for me shortly, at their discretion, of course.

I read about mounting car tires on bikes years ago. Mostly cruisers and HDs. I even rode an old Pan Head with one way back in the day. More recently I caught some discussion on one of the lists about it and read some more. Recently I decided to give this a try. At least to discover if it would work on the FJR at all.

I bought a used Cooper Zeon ZXS summer performance tire for cheap to test fit and today with DougC's help we mounted the tire and installed it on the bike. Below is a short report and some pics.
Apologies if you get this multiple times. It's going out to different lists.

So, things went fairly well. First off, it's a bitch to mount a stiff performance tire to a moto rim, even with the NoMar tire changer and three people, but it can be done. It takes all the tools you have though.



More tools stuffed in the tire

NoMar in use

And a 205/50-17 does fit on the FJR's 5.5" wheel, and fits on the bike, JUST. I think it just barely rubbed off the tops of some of the lettering on the sidewall with the brake caliper arm. There was about 1/8" clearance to the side stand legs as well. FYI, it rubbed a little when flat. :-( But not so much you couldn't push the bike around.

the bike

Ready to go test ride:


What did I learn? The car tire is wider than the rim, so mounting it requires more effort to get the first bead in the 'valley' of the wheel while you work the second bead on. And since the tire sticks out farther from the wheel, that means it doesn't like to sit flush on the NoMar pads. It's dished pretty good once you have both beads on the wheel. No need to seat the bead with high pressure, they are THERE. Possibly due to the rim design, the tire sticks out at the rim edge more than on a car. Not a problem, just an observation. Think rim protector beads X2.

For dismounting, it's very challenging to get the wheel lip onto the NoMar pad clips and locked in. I had to stand on the wheel spokes to exert enough down force to allow a second person to push the wheel into the pad clips and locked down.

I also learned to check used tires better for damage. :-/ The Cooper tire I bought for testing turned out to have two vertical slits in the side wall. Same side and they didn't leak with the tire inflated and just sitting there. They only leaked when the tire side wall flexed. I got a slow speed test ride in, but couldn't do an 'at speed' test due to the severe leakage.

The Cooper Zeon ZXS has very stiff side walls. It's a summer rated performance tire, so that was expected. Not much flex at 30 psi and one side would lift off the pavement when doing turns. I suspect a softer sidewall all season tire will not be as bad in this regard, but didn't feel it was a deal breaker on it's own, and didn't get the chance to play with different pressures due to the leaks. We could have patched it, but having learned 85% of what I wanted to learn, I didn't feel it was worth the effort to dismount the tire, patch it in two places, (making a total of three inside patches), and re-mount it.

What I noticed in feel is that during slow speed turns you can do everything you always could and it feels fine, traction wise, it's just that you get feedback in the bars when turning. A very noticeable pressure against you. You push left, it wants to keep going left to a tighter turn. You have to hold the bar position you want noticeably. This is parking lot drill speeds though. On the one short ride at faster speeds, (35 mph), I noted that the bar pressure seemed less and wasn't really that big a deal. Again, not a great test, just tooling down the neighborhood and making some swerves and a few turns.

I'm going to go ahead and order a new all season tire and give the Dark Side a try. I now know it will fit on the FJR and while handling is different, it's not so different or bad that I feel unsafe. There is just an adjustment period. I don't think it's a big deal to adjust to the car tire at this point.

I'll post more when I have the all season tire on and have some miles on it.

Did you chew on lead paint when you were little?