Finally replaced my starter yesterday

Well, I FINALLY swapped out my original 165k mile starter with a salvage unit I have had for a few months. As many of you may recall, I have had starting problems that have gradually gotten worse for a while now and that I have documented in other threads. They problems started around 140k, but even recently my FJR would start without drama 98% of the time. Still, a few weeks back I had three 'no-start' episodes in one day that required push starting. I knew then I needed to get this sorted out soon.

I have not been looking forward to this job. And I REALLY did not want to do all the work only to find out the starter was not the root cause of my problems. Well, the job wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Don't get me wrong, it was still a major pain in the ass. It took me two days working slowly. (And not working the entire day.) But I thought it would be much worse.

Short version: The salvage starter (Cost=$90 delivered) has fixed my issue. Schwing! :yahoo: :clapping: I feel so much better now. The old starter was toast!

So here's some photos:

First the gas tank was removed, then the tool tray, and then the airbox. Nothing too hard here. But lots of cables, wires, and shit to deal with. Airbox is wedged in there pretty good and took a bit of fiddling to get it out.

No airbox, and no starter in sight:



Shit! So as the service manual said, I am going to have to remove the throttlebodies. Speaking of throttlebodies, look at the 'gunk' on these things. Yikes!



Close up of the 'gunk'. How does all that crap get there? Of course I cleaned them well before re-installing.



So off come the throttle bodies. Luckily I didn't have to drain the coolant and disconnect everything as the SM instructed. I was able to disconnect most stuff and just pull them off to the side. With throttlebodies gone, I can see the starter.



And there's the two allen bolts that keep the starter mounted. Once those are removed, starter is removed pretty easily.



Old starter on right, *new* salvage unit on left. Note oil on the old one.



That oil matches up to where starter goes into case. More seepage here. Not too concerned with 165k on the clock.



With the throttlebodies removed, I can see into the head.............



Everthing looking pretty good here to my un-trained eye.



So in went the new starter, after everthing was cleaned the throttlebodies were re-installed. The moment of truth came and the starter button was pressed.

Yowsa! That thing is spinning a million RPM compared to the old original! Woo-hoo! It WAS the starter, and problem is now fixed assuming I can get everything back together correctly.

After finishing the tedious job of re-assembling everything, I opend up the old starter. As soon as I loosened the first bolt I smelled the strong odor of burnt electrics. Similar to that smell those old electric trains would make that I had as a young lad. Well, sheeee-ut! Look what I found:

The commutator. I haver never taken apart a starter before but this can't be good.



And the brushes. Unbelievable!



After seeing the condition of the starter, I am actually surprised it worked as well as it did these past few months. Obviously it looks terrible. Smelled bad too. Now I wish I would have cracked open the salvage starter I installed to take a gander at it. Oh well, at least it is working well and my FJR sounds and starts great now.

Much thanks to all of you who helped me in the past. Especially radman, Fred W, and Ionbeam.

Me and my FJR are in a Happy Place once again.

As always nice docu...I have stated before that I admire folks with the skills to do this sort of stuff

:clapping:

Is all that crud in the starter oil seepage or just melted crap or a combo of both?

Oh and congrats on the like new sounding bike...

Alfred

Great write-up and super pictures. Thanks for sharing, and ultimately, congratulations on a job well done.

I find it amazing that it worked as long as it did in that condition. It says alot about the quality of Yamaha's.. The intake valves also appear to be in excellent shape with no carbon build up especially considering the high milage. Thanks for sharing the swap out, excellent write up/pic's

Great job and great write-up Skoot! Glad to see that all that work was worth it, Yamaha sure made you work to get at the starter. You got your moneys worth outta that sucker, your starter was 100% used up and there was nothing functional left of anything. The dead starter is still of some value as a core, or you can have it repaired for resale or have a repaired starter on hand for when your next FJR starter begins to fail.

It looks like the external O-ring was just starting to leak a bit but the internal seal on the starter shaft had given up letting oil get into the starter. The brushes were 100% worn and the pole pieces on the rotor were most likely shorting. There should be clearly defined groves separating the pole pieces.

FWIW, and IMO, you are glad that you didn't open your replacement starter (whew?). It is often difficult for a duffer to get the starter back together so that the brushes seat back on the pole pieces correctly.

Great write-up Greg. Jeeze no easy task getting to that bugger.

From the pics, i'd say you could have got another couple of months out of it ...but why push it

me curious if all the seals around your airbox are good? -a bit more gunk around the butterfly valves than when the bike was new. compression test lately?

...but your intake sure looks stellar!

thanks for sharing -and now time to go for a ride.

Cool, someone managed to quote the entire post with pics and then add 2 lines for effect! Oh, and glad it fixed it. Starter looks pretty much as I expected it to. A starter/alt rebuild shop can make it like new-the commutator is likely good, just loaded with brush and old lube etc.

Excellent write-up and outstanding technical presentation SkooterG; very informative. When I was in your Gilbert garage yesterday at 9AM and you were at the reassembly point, I had guessed you would not have it put back together so quickly!

Oh, and my sixty year old legs really thank you immensely! As decrepit and fat as I am, I don't think I had one more push start for "The Dirty Old Whore" left in this worn out piece of shit ancient body of mine. You are an excellent mechanic, Greg!

Congrats, you moron, for fixing the problem. :fuck:

Gawddamm that IS a Dirty Whore! The closeup of the brush holder on the starter made me throw up a little in my mouth...kinda like when I yanked my fuel pump!

Oh, this pic just sealed the deal for me:



Gonna yank that POS airbox off and put a set of these in:



And Wicked Webby won't have nuthin' on me for airbox mods!

RadioHowie said:

Gonna yank that POS airbox off and put a set of these in:

And Wicked Webby won't have nuthin' on me for airbox mods!

Click to expand...

I don't think those are going to keep the TBs any cleaner. Maybe breathe easier, but I doubt they will trap dirt better than the air box with a good filter in it.

Good job Skooter!

Saved a lot of money and now your proud of yourself too.

ScooterG,

Nice job! How did you take such excellent close-up photos? :huh: My pictures always have a dirty thumb in the way. :lol: Were the pix instrumental in the re-assembly or were the manual and your recollection sufficient? I've always considered keeping a cheap camera in the garage for just such an event. :confusedsmiley:

radman said:

A starter/alt rebuild shop can make it like new-the commutator is likely good, just loaded with brush and old lube etc.

Click to expand...

So, I could get mine R&R'd, if it goes bad, and save some more?

Toecutter said:

So, I could get mine R&R'd, if it goes bad, and save some more?

Click to expand...

You bet. Starter brush assembly (Skoots engine side seal has failed methinks) is available from Yammi, so a core is valuable. As long as the commutator hasn't been eaten alive, a clean and true and fresh brushes will revive a used unit for quite a while. Seals and bearings should be available from a bearing house.

Way to go, Greg :specool:

Those pictures were something else!

Stef

Geezer said:

I don't think those are going to keep the TBs any cleaner. Maybe breathe easier, but I doubt they will trap dirt better than the air box with a good filter in it.

Click to expand...

But that's not the point, is it?

4 of those K&Ns combined with a PCIII and one of these



makes for some great fun.

But to get back on track, props to Greg for a great pictorial and write-up. Another job I'll be able to tackle if the need ever arises.

Also, looking at the intake port pics,



it looks like a port polish job wouldn't hurt the Feej at all. :yahoo:

Damn!

I am surprised that starter lasted as long as it did! I know when i saw you last, It was real sick!

RadioHowie said:

Geezer said:

I don't think those are going to keep the TBs any cleaner. Maybe breathe easier, but I doubt they will trap dirt better than the air box with a good filter in it.

Click to expand...

But that's not the point, is it?

4 of those K&Ns combined with a PCIII and one of these

makes for some great fun.

But to get back on track, props to Greg for a great pictorial and write-up. Another job I'll be able to tackle if the need ever arises.

Also, looking at the intake port pics,

it looks like a port polish job wouldn't hurt the Feej at all. :yahoo:

Click to expand...

+1 to all the above, especially the comment on the ports!

Ok, you've polished the ports-now what? The rev limiter still cuts in at 10 thou or so, the cams are done by then, the injectors are at their limit. And actually, those ports are pretty decent as ports go-clean up the flash if you insist, but no gains there in any case. Unless you're reaching stratospheric power levels, a rough intake port actually works better, especially on the street-keeps the flow turbulence up enough so that the fuel doesn't drop out and condense on the port wall. There's a lot of stuff to be done before those ports need to see a grinder..........