Bike down, totaled slider, frame damaged, 15 mph

Friends

Went for a ride today thinking i was going to make a nice 250 mile loop through the cascades. Didn't happen that way.

Coming around a round about at about 15 mph I gave it a little gas. Looking around turn and up the ride just like I should. Bike went right out from under me. Best I can tell my back wheel got onto that white paint shit that they make arrows out of. Wasn't looking down at that moment so I couldn't tell. Pavement dry and flat. Nothing else makes any sense. No scraping pegs or centerstand (that came later)

Lesson one: watch out for the paint.

Bike slid on skyway slider. Left side. Damage:

Holed the muffler

Scrapped up the engine cover

Bent the mirror

Bent the handlebar

Rashed the throttlemeister

Holed the high-techy Dainese miracle fabric pants. Same with jacket.

Scraped up boots.

Plastic all fine.

Ridable but all need to be replaced.

Lesson two: This was looooow speed and there's over $1000 in parts here. I'll point out the obvious that it would have hurt like hell in jeans and sneakers yet alone shorts and a tee shirt. The protective gear all did what it was supposed to do but is trashed. The comfy miracle Dainese fabric is just too light weight. Leather would have scuffed and aerostich would have as well. Wear your gear and forget the fancy techy comfy fabrics.

The hard part about all this is what happened to the frame. The low side slide forced the slider up which applied enough force to the bottom of the flange into which the slider fits to snap it out (so basically it busted a piece of the frame off). Picture at https://kevinrants.typepad.com/photos/ducati/le0w7425.html if you care to look (ignore all the ducati stuff)

The bolt stripped out of the frame and bent about 45 degrees. When i got the bike home i was able to fit the stock engine bolt back in and torque it to spec. So i will be taking the whole mess to the dealer to see what's up with the frame. Picture at https://kevinrants.typepad.com/photos/ducati/le0w7433.html

Lesson 3: Not sure if a different slider design or bolt would have performed any differently and at the moment, not sure if the damage to the frame is more than replacement body work would be.

The important parts, i guess that would be me, are fine. That's why we wear gear. That's why we take classed (two advanced clinics this year including the excellent Lee Parks school). That's why we pay attention. And even with all that . . . shit happens i guess.

Ride safe.

Sorry to hear about your bike.

I ride through a circle (round about) on my morning commute on days when I need to go in to the office. That is the most slippery piece of road that I have ever ridden on. I don't know why, but the surface on the circle is pretty shiny even though there is no evidence of oil on the road.

The hard part about all this is what happened to the frame. The low side slide forced the slider up which applied enough force to the bottom of the flange into which the slider fits to snap it out (so basically it busted a piece of the frame off).

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This has been one of the concerns voiced about the use of the metal slider vs. Delrin plastic. Guess this might confirm the suspicions.

camera56 said:

So i will be taking the whole mess to the dealer to see what's up with the frame.

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I have seen many insurance adjusters total a bike for a LOT less damage to the frame than what you have here:



Hell, I've seen insurance adjusters total a bike because the frame was scratched!!!! This damage here would be an instant "total" in their eyes, because the Insurance companies just do not dick around when it comes to the frame. OTOH, perhaps your insurance adjuster might have a different perspective.

This has been one of the concerns voiced about the use of the metal slider vs. Delrin plastic. Guess this might confirm the suspicions.

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Most definitely. Suspect it's likely you wouldn't have had anywhere near the frame damage if you had the typical R&G or Moko sliders.

Warchild. Thanks for the call out on the frame. It's not obvious to me what can be done here.

In terms of the slider, I've been in touch with Skyway. Personally, i think there is a significant issue here as it looks to me like the bolt only engaged with four threads.

camera56 said:

In terms of the slider, I've been in touch with Skyway. Personally, i think there is a significant issue here as it looks to me like the bolt only engaged with four threads.

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I'm not sure about the direction of that comment, but I hope my radar just pinged a false image...

twowheelnut said:

camera56 said:

In terms of the slider, I've been in touch with Skyway. Personally, i think there is a significant issue here as it looks to me like the bolt only engaged with four threads.

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I'm not sure about the direction of that comment, but I hope my radar just pinged a false image...

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Not sure what your radar picked up. To be specific, it does not appear to me that the bolt used in the slider on the left side engaged more than four, actually five, threads . . . threads seven through twelve. Those threads are filled with sheared off materials. The rest are clean. The bolt was pulled right out. Bolts installed according to skyway's direction both written and verbal and tightened to 40 lbs.

twowheelnut said:

camera56 said:

In terms of the slider, I've been in touch with Skyway. Personally, i think there is a significant issue here as it looks to me like the bolt only engaged with four threads.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the direction of that comment, but I hope my radar just pinged a false image...

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Man ,this sure was one heck of a pop on the frame for 15 miles an hour. you must have dropped it straight on the bolt. Almost like you just slammed it down! that is amazing, I just went through a cemetary a couple of weeks ago and had both the front and then the back tire slide out on me and it only did minor scrapes but I had R&G,

Were the bags on, bet not!

If the bolt bent then that should be why only a portion of the frame was snapped off, I do not really think the bolt could have only engaged four threads or it would not have went on, it is possible that it some how got tweak when the bolt and slider was installed.

05fjrBluedevil said:

Man ,this sure was one heck of a pop on the frame for 15 miles an hour. you must hae dropped it straight on the bolt. Almost like you just dropped, that is amazing, I just went through a cemetary a couple of weeks

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What was the road surface like? Any lip/gouge/hole for the slider to catch in after settling into contact with the pavement?

Rashed the throttlemeister.

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How did the throttlemiester get rashed if it landed on the left side.

I just got Skyways and haven't put them on yet. Now I don't know whether to put them on or not.

That bolt goes into the motor case. So the (some of) the threads were pulled out of the motor also. The reason the stock bolt torqued up is because it was longer than Skyways and it went into the motor farther to the threads that the other bolt did not reach. But some of the threads are missing and the only true fix is to replace that case or Heli-coil it.

I an not going to install my sliders til I get more info.

The trouble with all these long sliders with long bolts is that there is too much leverage at the point of contact. That and the contact base isn't large enough. Even MOKO's are just tipover guards at best. A 0 mph tip over trashed the MOKO and in the end cost me over $500. They're placed too high to do any real good. The R&G's are the ones that I know really work.

camera56 said:

Not sure what your radar picked up. To be specific, it does not appear to me that the bolt used in the slider on the left side engaged more than four, actually five, threads . . . threads seven through twelve. Those threads are filled with sheared off materials. The rest are clean. The bolt was pulled right out. Bolts installed according to skyway's direction both written and verbal and tightened to 40 lbs.

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I would imagine he was thinking along this line.

twowheelnut said:

camera56 said:

In terms of the slider, I've been in touch with Skyway. Personally, i think there is a significant issue here as it looks to me like the bolt only engaged with four threads.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the direction of that comment, but I hope my radar just pinged a false image...

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In today's society, one cannot manufacture items like sliders without insurance - it is unfortunate, but if someone can prove any manufacturer's items were installed / used correctly and failed, the manufacturer is an open target for litigation. I have had friends who develop software components EXPRESSLY WRITE OUT in the software license agreement that the component could NOT be used in software that involved any life / death decisions.

Any how, I hope Camera56 is just pointing out a possible concern for others.

Best Regards,

Shane

Skyway does make Delrin sliders nowadays too... I picked up a set at WFO... and based on your estimate of the damage, and what I got back from Gary McCoy for replacement of my tupperware/misc. items, I'm probably halfway to a custom paint job by the time it's all said and done...

Friends

All of this in the spirt of fellowship of the road. I'm a big boy and live with my decisions. I'm just passing along the information i have. Here's what i now know.

In terms of the road, dead flat, no water, no ice, no curbs, no nothing but that thick which paint. I thought I might have jacked the center stand by close inspection of the tire suggest it slid and Niko at Seattle Yamaha (one of the true great and knowledgeable guys) agrees with me on this one.

In terms of the slider, it is his opinion that the bolt is too hard for the application. I won't know until next week when they tear it apart, but he thinks the bolt caught about a half an inch of threads at the most. He says there is more depth there that a longer engine bolt can take care of, but again, i'll know when they take it apart.

As to whether or not you should install these or any sliders or other farkles, buyer beware. If you're asking me, I would say no, particularly given the damage caused to the frame (see below). Having said that, who's to say it wouldn't have happened with another slider. Dunno. There was a similar issue with Doug Hines lovely risers with the bolts shearing off. I have a Rich's seat, Hyperpro suspension, CSI windscreen, etc. Like the rest of you, I buy this stuff eyes open, check it all constantly, and hope for the best. If something goes wacky, I write about it.

As the the frame, i have two choices. Get it welded or get it replaced. I have yet to talk to my insurance company but the idea of getting it welded seems like a poor choice. A frame is about $2000 and another $2000 to put it in. Another $1000 worth of bent stuff and the gear i have to now throw away adds another $1000. 40 minute ride, 15 mph low side, $6,000. I'm still alive and kicking to tell about it.

Just as a followup, I dropped my bike 3 times on the right side on the way to WFO (bad road, loose shale/dirt/gravel, downslope, all within a span of 300 yards). The Delrin Moko slider on that side got rashed pretty badly, but the front fairing only got scratched because of the slope of the road, and the fact that there were sharp pointy rocks sticking up to scratch it. They've kept the fairing from getting knicked two other times at Gas Station tipovers.

If you have the small piece of the flange on the frame that broke out, a good certified aluminum TIG welder should be able to repair it without much problem.

Fred H. said:

If you have the small piece of the flange on the frame that broke out, a good certified aluminum TIG welder should be able to repair it without much problem.

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Sadly i don't. Shattered into three pieces. Shards really.