Valve check... Should I leave well enough alone or dig in

Hello members,

Picked up a gorgeous 06 last march with 28k that performs and runs flawlessly and I want to keep it that way. Since march I've clocked almost 10k (37500) I feel like Its time for plugs and a TBS. While the bike was well maintained and came with full service records, the valves were never checked. Ive purchased all of the necessary gaskets, seals, o-rings, grommets and a CCT should I decide to let my trusted mechanic perform said work to the (perfectly running as far as I can tell) FJR.

I guess my reluctance comes from the many varied opinions on the subject. Apparently many have ridden multiples of the mileage that I have on the bike without issue. I want to do the best for my baby but I don't want to potentially open a can of worms by fixing things that aren't broke.

I want to change the plugs and have a TBS done so I feel like while its apart for that work that now would be the time to have the valves checked and an updated CCT installed even though all SEEMS well....

What to do? Thinking out loud...

Is it time? Should I wait?

Thanks for any and all opinions.

Don't wait.

Although FJRs typically have very stable valve trains, there's always the one exception. My $.02 is follow the OE recommendations and have the valve clearance inspected. You're 10k + overdue for the first one. The original CCT was also a poor design and will eventually let the chain begin the death rattle. Make sure you have the latest P/N "green dot" tensioner.

Good luck...your FJR will thank you!

--G

George is right, get it done. If it is running fine now it willrun just fine after the service and you will know it's good to go instead of wondering when something will go wrong.

Those bikes that ran to high mileage received regular and thorough preventive maintenance. You are well beyond the first factory valve check interval.

I ran a poll on this forum on how often an adjustment was required at the first, second, and subsequent valve checks, and although the required number was low for the first check, it was not zero. Your bike may be one of the ~ 10 percent that need adjustment.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/111697-valve-checks-vs-adjustment-required-poll

My advice is to do the check now, and then stick to the service schedule from there on.

It is time. There is a possibility it could only be a check but why take the chance. You state that you have a ride that "runs flawlessly and I you want to keep it that way". Replacing a CCT (if not already done) would be wise as well.

Just performing the valve check maintenance opens up looking into so much more. Was the wiring harness updated? If not it might be good to inspect all of the connections, looking for dry connections that corroded. Clean and condition the connections using a 100% pure silicone dielectric grease usually gives you great results. Changing Plugs and fully changing the coolant are no-brainers and highly recommended. I'm sure that you will find more to explore when in doing the check, but it sounds like you have the right idea.

BTW, This sounds like a clone of the '06 I sold last year. If I had keep the 06 it would have gotten the check at a minimum for sure. Mine ran perfect as well.

NBB

Hey, thanks for the replies.

I mean yea, I knew the answer before I asked the question. The bike has been well maintained. All of the factory recall work has been performed. Ignition, ICU, Ground harness, and speedo. I perform the basic services and have a close eye on the maintenance schedule.

What makes me nervous is the horror stories about broken plastic, lost parts, skipped timing chain teeth and such. I just wanted to be sure that I shouldn't try to squeeze a few more miles before the inevitable.

I know its time. I dont want to wait until something goes wrong. I will NOT be taking it to the dealer and have found a tech that I'm very comfortable with.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Uenjoy

On my 06 I had the valves checked per factory all the way to 124k miles before I sold it and it never needed an adjustment. On my 2013 I decided I would wait until the 2nd scheduled maintenance to check the valves. I sold it before I could get them done but realize this was my decision and it could have blown up in my face. The other thing to think about changing are the headlights. On both bikes one of the lights failed around 50k.

There are some decent "how to's" on the forum for CCT changes and valve checks. Little chance of broken plastics if you are careful - read this https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=116788 .

The only lost or broken parts I have encountered are plastic push-pins/rivets. (Keep extras in stock)

Read the following on the CCT https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/136891-lessons-learned-on-changing-the-cct/?hl=++changing+++chain+++tensioner .

Valve check - do you have yamafitter's valve check Excel spreadsheet? It used to be hosted in a publically available location but the links are dead, I think. If you want it, I can email you a copy (PM me with your email address). Or try here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1wsPIhAZChyNTBqaU85OFVYbm8/view (you may need a Google account to download it)

If you encounter "how to" articles with bad Photobucket links, you can add the following extension to your Chrome browser and the photos will magically appear unless the original poster has deleted their account.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-hotlink-fix/kegnjbncdcliihbemealioapbifiaedg

I did my first valve check at 50,000 miles (later than I should have but all were OK - a couple were close). They don't change rapidly but its a good idea to get that first one done sooner since you don't know where they started. At 186,000 miles, I think I have done five checks and have needed adjustments twice.

Use a set of "go/no-go" feeler gages. Takes the guess work out of it. One man's "loose 6" is another man's "6" and yet another's "tight 5"

I also firmly believe that Yamaha set the interval with specific things in mind. Noteworthy is the fact that if you check is within spec, it can go 26,000 miles and not tighten up to the point of engine failure. So for example, let's hypothetically discuss one of your #2 exhaust valves. I use that example because the exhaust side gets hotter and the inner cylinders likely get the hottest. If one of your #2 exhaust valves goes with the 0.007" go/no-go feeler, then it's good for 26,000 miles. Period. Forget trying to loosen it up while you are in there. Don't fix something that isn't broken. Leave it alone, next time you will likely be getting into it (and perhaps others).

I didn't make this revelation up. I'm no where near that smart. I was told this by a Yamaha dealer tech with 25 years experience on Yamaha motorcycles.

Now, this method only works if you stay reasonably close to the 26K interval. Which is why it's time for you to check them now, and follow the prescribed interval.

hppants said:

Use a set of "go/no-go" feeler gages. Takes the guess work out of it. One man's "loose 6" is another man's "6" and yet another's "tight 5"
I also firmly believe that Yamaha set the interval with specific things in mind. Noteworthy is the fact that if you check is within spec, it can go 26,000 miles and not tighten up to the point of engine failure.

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From everything I have read from multiple forums and technical articles, Yamaha is actually certifying to the EPA that the engine can go 26K miles between valve adjustments and still be in compliance with the EPA's emission requirements for that engine. How far the engine can go before the first valve adjustment without damaging the engine is a totally different calculation and very dependent on how accurate the original valve setting was when the engine rolled off the assembly line and whether the manufacturer tries to set the initial clearances in the middle of the clearance range or on the "tight" side. I have only read about a single instance where skipping the first valve check resulted in a burned valve and that didn't happen until about 50K miles....so do you feel lucky? You are really taking a risk if you plan to keep the bike past 50K and you skip the first valve check altogether, so if you have to do at least one valve check, you might as well do it close to the 26K requirement.

This is not how the Yamaha tech explained it to me. His understanding and experience indicated that under extreme conditions, a valve/seat/shim/etc. assembly that measures in spec (even on the tightest side) would not tighten to the point of catastrophic failure during 26,000 miles of running.

Of course, what makes him an expert is subjective. That, along with perhaps a hundred other variables including the ones mentioned above.

Regardless, we the OP's bike mine, I'd be much more concerned about the OEM cam chain tensioner than anything else.

Least we not forget the mantra... Ride More, Stress Less....

hppants said:

This is not how the Yamaha tech explained it to me. His understanding and experience indicated that under extreme conditions, a valve/seat/shim/etc. assembly that measures in spec (even on the tightest side) would not tighten to the point of catastrophic failure during 26,000 miles of running.

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I think what the Yamaha tech told you is a true statement, its just not the criteria Yamaha uses to determine valve adjustment intervals. Valve clearances have a rather large safety margin to prevent engine damage, especially during break in, and should go much longer than 26K miles if set properly after engine break in, the danger is that a new owner doesn't know how much of that safety margin may have been compromised during engine assembly and break in.

I have had a C14 sitting next to my FJR since 11/2007 and the valve adjustment intervals are 15K in the US and 24K in the rest of the world. Same engine, same valve train, same valve clearances. Nobody knows why except Kawasaki and they aren't talking (officially) but it does seem that everyone who does their own valve checks at 15-24K finds clearances that are on the tight edge or slightly beyond. One of my C14 riding friends found multiple tight clearances and one valve was only half of what was considered the tight limit but the engine did not have any apparent engine damage. I checked my clearances at 17K and had 14 valves on the tight edge with a couple slightly beyond. I checked again at 35K and the clearances were identical, nothing had tightened, but I had shims in hand and changed all 16, moving the clearances from the tight end of the range to the loose end...and I consider it a lifetime adjustment.

OP, Obviously it's time to do a check.. but that's probably all it is... a check.

Most bikes don't need adjustment of shims until 50k+ or even 100k+ miles... but you need to check!

Also, get a friend who's done it before (even a paid tech) and help out. You will learn a little, but feel a lot better if you participate, vs worry about the unknown. That's how almost all of us get started... helping along side someone who is helping you! Enjoy the process!

OP, Obviously it's time to do a check.. but that's probably all it is... a check.

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Agree. I did mine at slightly over 30k miles and all were dead on spec. What a relief to not have to remove the cams and fiddle with shims! Odds are you won't either, but you won't know until you do.

Keep in mind that the cost of owning a bike includes replacing wear items (tires, oil, etc.) as well as routine maintenance as prescribed by the people who engineered it. If you don't want to spend the time and $ to do it, then drive a car or use public transit. Cars have won't fall over when they fail (usually) and mass trans pushes the maintenance to someone else.

Bounce said:

Keep in mind that the cost of owning a bike includes replacing wear items (tires, oil, etc.) as well as routine maintenance as prescribed by the people who engineered it. If you don't want to spend the time and $ to do it, then drive a car or use public transit. Cars have won't fall over when they fail (usually) and mass trans pushes the maintenance to someone else.

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There are simpler options available that will keep you on two wheels w/o the major headache brought on my major service issues of many in-line fours, desmodronic systems, etc,, no need to ride the couch, the cage, or public transportation.

On the BMW LC motor a caveman can check/adj. the valves in well under an hour. On a Moto Guzzi, a blind man can do the job in less the 30 minutes.

Paul

Yeah... That has to be the first time Ive ever heard someone say they could simplify their motorcycle life by switching to a BMW. Huh? Ive owned multiple Beemers and Feejers, and I can tell you first hand that you are way off the mark there.

Yes, a valve check on an airhead or oilhead boxer is simpler than a far more high performance inline 4 (including the K bikes, one of which I also owned), but the rest of the German bike requires far more maintenance time and attention than any Japanese bike ever did. Never a problem for me because I always did my own, but when you have to fork the Deutschmarks over to Klaus, it is a significant factor.

FWIW, Ive done maybe 8 or 10 valve checks on FJRs now, and it is only a 3-4 hour job for a Saturday morning, and that includes changing the plugs, coolant, and oil while Im in there. When you do have to adjust, which will be infrequent, it is a bigger ordeal, but nothing you cant finish in 8 hours if you have everything you need.

And, since I havent pissed anyone off in a while... In my not so humble opinion, people that pay the mechanic to do service on their bikes may be avid Riders, but you have to do your own maintenance to become a motorcycle enthusiast. You just cant reach the same level of connectedness by tossing someone a wad of cash.

Ill hide behind my nomar flame screen now.

My 2013 needed two exhaust valves adjusted at 30,000; I had checked them at around 15,000 and they were all good (hey, what else are winters for?). I did all of the valves myself with online help with Fred and some manuals. I adjusted all the valves to about 70% of the max gap and figure I'm good for a long time. I created an oil leak by tearing the valve cover gasket, so I had to go back in at around 35,000. When I adjusted the valves I sanded the old valves instead of putting in new ones and was interested to see if they had changed in size because of pounding in. All the valves were at the same except two that had gone down in size by .01-2 mm. I had never done the valves on an inline four dual OHC engine before and was certainly anxious about doing so on my own, but it wasn't as hard as I imagined. I've since done the valves on my Super Tenere and a friend's ST as well. Same basic set up except with less work space. Scum is right about the ease of doing the vaves on the BMW water cooled boxers. I have a 2017 R1200GSA and Spousal Unit has a 2017 R1200GS. I haven't done the valves yet but have been reading up and watching maintenance videos and It looks like the hardest part is removing the crash bars on the GSA.

Fred W said:

Yeah... That has to be the first time Ive ever heard someone say they could simplify their motorcycle life by switching to a BMW. Huh? Ive owned multiple Beemers and Feejers, and I can tell you first hand that you are way off the mark there. Yes, a valve check on an airhead or oilhead boxer is simpler than a far more high performance inline 4 (including the K bikes, one of which I also owned), but the rest of the German bike requires far more maintenance time and attention than any Japanese bike ever did. Never a problem for me because I always did my own, but when you have to fork the Deutschmarks over to Klaus, it is a significant factor.

FWIW, Ive done maybe 8 or 10 valve checks on FJRs now, and it is only a 3-4 hour job for a Saturday morning, and that includes changing the plugs, coolant, and oil while Im in there. When you do have to adjust, which will be infrequent, it is a bigger ordeal, but nothing you cant finish in 8 hours if you have everything you need.

And, since I havent pissed anyone off in a while... In my not so humble opinion, people that pay the mechanic to do service on their bikes may be avid Riders, but you have to do your own maintenance to become a motorcycle enthusiast. You just cant reach the same level of connectedness by tossing someone a wad of cash.

Ill hide behind my nomar flame screen now.

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OBVIOUSLY Fred hasn't seen the video about how to be a "Real Biker." There is no mention in that video about having to do our own maintenance. So there!!

Actually, I'll do everything EXCEPT the valves and the forks. I've helped do one set of forks, and I'll never do that again. I don't have the correct tools, the patience, or the desire to clean up the mess. AND, I have an awesome Yamaha guy who does a great job in a short time.

I won't do the valves, because, honestly, there have been too many horror stories of guys skipping the chain and having to unscrew the mess. I don't have the patience for that either. IF, I could check them, find them out of spec, quickly button it up and take it to my Yamaha guy, well, I'd do that. However, since it has to come apart so much before a check can be done, I'll pay my guy to check them and then adjust them if necessary. So far, no adjustments needed anyway. FWIW, I did the valve check and adjustment on my KTM, but that was easy. The FJR, in my opinion, is unreasonably difficult, so I won't mess with it. I guess if I had someone that knew how to do it, help me, at least once, I'd be more comfortable.

I guess I think about it like brain surgery. If we fuck up our brain, we're done. If we fuck up an arm, well, that's inconvenient, but not deadly, mostly. Same with my motor. If I install the brake pads wrong, I'll screw up my rotors, and it'll just cost me a little money to correct it. If I screw up my valves, or jump the chain and my motor grenades, my FJR will be done. I'll have to sell it as a parts bike, because I don't have the skill or space to remove the motor, split the case and fix that kind of screw up. So, until I gain more ability, I'll pay someone to ensure I don't break it, and I'll ride it enthusiastically, which will make me a motorcycle enthusiast. Lol....