Linked brakes not so bad

After a long and contentious discussion about linked brakes, I've come around to not merely putting up with linked brakes, but integrating them, with very good results, into my riding.

My biggest concern now will be riding a bike without linked brakes, and forgetting some bikes are not so fortunate as the FJR.

RBEmerson said:

After a long and contentious discussion about linked brakes, I've come around to not merely putting up with linked brakes, but integrating them, with very good results, into my riding.
My biggest concern now will be riding a bike without linked brakes, and forgetting some bikes are not so fortunate as the FJR.

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I figured you would come around once you had some miles under your belt.

plus you won't be getting bent over on the forum..

I love linked brakes. Most bikes I've owned have had them. I've only been riding ten years. I understand why some especially those who have ridden for many years may have their reservations, but the linked brakes will save the rider from any number of dumb braking mistakes. I always figure if a dumb mistake is possible I'll probably make that mistake at some point. Any of the members that think my philosophy regarding mistakes is wrong, just look up the thread on here that I think begins with something like

"I dropped my bike and the worst injury was to my pride"

After the poster told of his careless moment where his FJR fell and explained how he felt that a crowd of people saw him do it. In the following days there must have been at least thirty members that told their story of dropping their bike in a dumb moment and the embarrassment that come with. It's just possible to have careless moments and linked brakes will at least help with the careless moment of using one brake hard and it allows for you to use your front brake a little more liberally IMHO.

Re: dropping - I can't remember where I read it or heard it, but someone said "sooner or later we all do a drop. Some people tell the truth, some people say it never happened to them". I plead guilty. Not a garage drop but out of speed, out of room, out of ideas, out of pride. I tried to leave a side road, saw I was swinging wide and a car was coming at me as I was pointed into their lane. Brake, stop, drop. But better than being head-oned. My error for trying to push off too soon. [/ gun to head with finger ]

Speaking of brakes, when ABS was introduced, the counter-argument was "modulating the brakes is just as good". Head to head with the same vehicle type, same speed, same "step on the pedal here" point. Needless to say, modulating went further than ABS.

OTOH, I had an ABS failure leave me with minimal braking and 200+ miles to get home, from Backa-Beyond, NC. And no help from the Anonymous Book (does one exist in the FJR world?). Definitely a memorable experience. And part of why I gave up on BMW. The dead modulator alone cost $2K. There's a company who rebuild ABS systems - $600 for a rebuilt unit. No way the dealer wanted to even touch the rebuilt modulator. Unfortunately, the BMW brake system needs serious ju-ju to do anything. Sigh...

ABS failures have been reported, mostly on the 1st Gens in 04 and 05, and the failure mode was nearly always the same: The brakes worked just like regular brakes but would not modulate in the event of wheel slip. The sensors and electronics all still worked, but the hydraulic block would get stuck and not be able relieve pressure when commanded. No ABS light, just no ABS.

I have never heard of an FJRs ABS that failed and caused the brakes to become inoperative, and you know that if this was a likely possibility it would have been reported here. I guess the Yamaha ABS design is more fail safe than the BMW one. Another reason to be happy with your choice to buy an FJR.

I once had the brakes become inoperative on an 06 FJR AE. When it happened it nearly freaked me out. I was coming into St Louis on I 270 and exited for gas. When I got to the top of the ramp the brakes worked but felt very funny and didn't do much and also there was a funny smell. Then and there I decided that I'd pull into the gas station parking lot a couple blocks up and check things out.

When I slowly took off and turned into the street everything seemed OK, but two blocks up there was a red traffic light and the brakes entirely failed. I engine braked down to about 6-7 MPH and then there was nothing I could do but blow the light. I laid on the horn and turned right and quick left into the gas station with one or two cars yielding on my behalf and a lot of adrenaline for me.

As soon as I pulled into the lot, managed to stop and got off the bike I saw the problem. My rear brake pedal had stuck on the pivot partially depressed. I quickly discovered that I'd burnt up a lot of pad, but not all of it. The most devastating part was that this was bleeding the hydraulics and that's what caused the total brake failure. Once I un-stuck the rear brake and pumped the front brake a few times the hydraulic recovered and the bike rode fine for the next 5,000 miles in 8 days.

JSNS that the rear brake pedal has splines that can stick on the 06 FJR and probably but I don't know all generation 2s. It's important to be aware of as this could cause an event like I experienced. Had I been more aware, I'd have noticed the smell and or put my foot on occasion with the rear pedal to make sure it isn't stuck.

I get that the rear brake overheated and boiled the fluid. But I'm not understanding why a stuck rear brake would cause the front brakes to not work. In any case, this is a good reminder to not skip the regular maintenance to lube lever and pedal pivots. I don't think the splines have anything to do with it.

Hey RBE, welcome back to the world of Un-Boobness! Actually I was feeling kinda bad that I may have contributed to you not returning to the Forum, glad to have you back. Like many if not most, you may even decide that if possible you'll not own another bike without ABS. The linked brakes to me aren't even noticeable if you do your research, understand exactly what they do, and operate them accordingly.

Awww man... I already disconnected that brake hose and plugged the hole in the caliper with a whittled stick. Now y'all say it's safe to ride the FJR with linked brakes? I wish y'all would make up my mind.

I actually made a decent effort to feel at exactly what point the front brake started to come in with rear pedal pressure. I never could say exactly when that threshold was reached. I have on rare occasions been aware that "something is different" and I decided I was getting a bit of front brake actuation... and then decided I had no real clue. I have to assume the linking works but it has never had a negative impact on my enjoyment of or my ability to control the bike.

I can see where the rear brake circuit goes sour with cooked fluid and that causes some mischief in the ABS "brains". That, in turn, could affect the front brakes. This is totally guesswork, but, hey even a blind squirrel occasionally can find a nut.

On brakes, I'm impressed that, while wheeling the bike around the garage (2 car, 0 bike, bike goes across of one car or the other), hitting the front brakes is quick and hard. The KRS wasn't as "enthusiastic". Obviously a compromised brake circuit (popped hose, slave or master cylinder failure, etc.) won't work so well. But in a "power out" situation, I suspect the brakes will still be there. Or does anyone know otherwise?

What? None of that made the least bit of sense to me.

I hope you were under the influence of something.

I had a 2004 BMW with servo assist abs brakes. With the engine off they barely did anything. BMW called it residual braking. That sucked when the ABS went out 600 miles from home.

The only thing you lose if the power goes out on the FJR is the ABS. Braking effectiveness is identical - pure hydraulics with no vacuum or servo assist.

Hard to believe that BMW would unnecessarily complicate stuff at possible risk to the rider. Oh, wait a minute, this is BMW and German over-engineering we're talking about. Let's make it so complicated that nobody other than a BMW "Technician" can fix it at hugely inflated cost. And so complex that mechanical failures are almost certain, especially when built by a company whose reputation (inexplicably) greatly exceeds their quality control. No doubt, however, that they make some stuff with a "kool" factor.

Fred W said:

What? None of that made the least bit of sense to me.
I hope you were under the influence of something.

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I think what he is saying is that the BMW brakes don't do much without the engine running. That right there would be a deal breaker for me. Of course my truck brakes don't do much without the power steering pump providing boost (turbo diesel, no engine vacuum) and that has never bothered me.

My R1150R is a non-ABS bike and the brakes usually work almost like they are supposed to.

The KRS' brakes are servo assisted, which some, including me, like. Pull the lever or stomp on the pedal, and things happen in a hurray. With non-servo brakes, serious squeezing or stomping is needed to make things happen. Going from the KRS to a '16 RT (boxer motor) felt as though the brakes were almost gone. 'Course, when the ABS module, which includes a whining motor as part of the module, goes away, even the non-servo brakes are much, much, much better.

OK, the rear brake locks up, the brake fluid boils, which means there are bubbles in the fluid, which means that even if the brakes free up, the system will still effectively be an unbled brake system. Front and rear brakes are linked. Here's where I start guessing. If those bubbles reach the ABS system, that might cause the ABS valves or module or whatever does its work when the wheels lock up, to not handle any brake activation, rear or front, properly. Or not. It's just a guess.

On the FJR, the two left piston pairs and the upper right piston pair are absolutely independent from the back brake. The hose could split or the brake fluid cooked to boiling and it would have no effect on the front brake (other than the loss of the lower right piston pair activated by the rear.

Redfish Hunter said:

Fred W said:

What? None of that made the least bit of sense to me.
I hope you were under the influence of something.

Click to expand...

I think what he is saying is that the BMW brakes don't do much without the engine running. That right there would be a deal breaker for me. Of course my truck brakes don't do much without the power steering pump providing boost (turbo diesel, no engine vacuum) and that has never bothered me.

My R1150R is a non-ABS bike and the brakes usually work almost like they are supposed to.

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Correct - no power, no full braking. Even with the motor running, the bike has to roll several feet (AFAIK, more than 20') before the brakes come up to full power with ABS. Until the ABS sensor reads the reluctance ring (slotted ring between the brake rotor and axle) moving, it won't engage. How clever... [/ rolled eyes ]

RossKean said:

The only thing you lose if the power goes out on the FJR is the ABS. Braking effectiveness is identical - pure hydraulics with no vacuum or servo assist.
Definitely the way to go.

Hard to believe that BMW would unnecessarily complicate stuff at possible risk to the rider. Oh, wait a minute, this is BMW and German over-engineering we're talking about. Let's make it so complicated that nobody other than a BMW "Technician" can fix it at hugely inflated cost. And so complex that mechanical failures are almost certain, especially when built by a company whose reputation (inexplicably) greatly exceeds their quality control. No doubt, however, that they make some stuff with a "kool" factor.

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German thoroughness has its pluses and minuses. There's an attempt to do things the best way possible ("best" being open to debate). "Getting it right" is a big deal. My father-in-law spent I don't recall how many hours chasing down a $.25 (or 1 DM - pre-euro) error in a budget report. "Close enough" simply wasn't in his vocabulary. Which meant whatever was reported was Right.

But BMW makes some incredibly bone-headed mistakes, too. My Mini Cooper S had a starting problem: too many cranks to get it going in the morning, but fine all day. Cause: pressure valve, which should have kept full fuel pressure in the EFI, didn't hold up. On the KRS, BMW used two quick disconnects for the fuel lines (feed and return from EFI). It makes removing the gas tank easier. A good thing, as the air filter lives under the tank (say what?!?). They cheaped out and used Nylon, Delrin, or some other gas-proof plastic parts. Which are prone to breaking, which then could dump gas. Unfortunately the price for a set has risen to $75 (bastards) but balance gas spill on hot exhaust with metal disconnects. BMW Motorrad had a quiet semi-recall (it was there, customers had to figure it out). Not so getting it right, but, hey, we're BMW so it must be right.