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Audiovox Cruise Control-Problem Solved?


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#1 rfulcher

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:54 PM

Audiovox Cruise Control for 06-07 FJR, problem solved, maybe?

If you have a properly installed AVCC that works at first and then fails this may help.

After a year of frustration I now have a working cruise control on my 2007 yahoo.gif yahoo.gif yahoo.gif yahoo.gif
Summary: Shortened AVCC blue wire connected to the orange wire near the ECU plug and servo DIP switch #7 set to OFF for ECU source.

I have made 3 rides >50 miles in 80 degree temps at 75+ mph and it worked perfectly. I live in the flat lands of coastal South Carolina and will not be able to test more extensively with long distance and long climbs until early June.

I think that moving the servo blue wire from the coil to the orange harness wire, #1 on the connector, under the left side cover (where you do the Barbarian Mod) and setting the #7 DIP switch to OFF are the most important changes.

I think that the magic is in moving switch #7 to OFF. However, I don’t think if I would move DIP switch #7 to OFF unless I moved the blue servo wire to the orange #1 wire at the ECU harness. I just don’t know what would happen.

You can make your own call on this. It has not let the magic smoke out yet, but it might.

_______________________________________________________________________

The Back Story


I started a long thread on my inability to get the AVCC working on my 07 FJR. This started last April 2007.

The problem was addressed at length here.

http://www.fjrforum....s...avcc flaky

Kaitsdad addressed it again here.

http://www.fjrforum....udiovox Cruise

Kaitsdad provided me with a servo for problem solving. This was the 3rd servo I have tried on the bike. Trust me, I tested and replaced everything multiple times without success. I had given up on the AVCC until I had another servo to play with. This is what got me working on the “lost cause” again.

Ionbeam is in the process of evaluating one on my “bad” servos and has found nothing wrong with the servo so far.

I think that the problem is related to something with the bike that does not play well with the AVCC.
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#2 kaitsdad

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 09:18 PM

Ross, this is Excellent !!! What a relief !! I gotta say, props to ya for sticking it out - you just kept at it till it happened. Good Job.

Now - is there any other GenII problem child out there that is willing to try the changes on their install?

This would give a confirmation of the solution ....


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#3 wheatonFJR

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 05:35 AM

"Once you let the magic smoke out...you can't put it back in."

-wise old electrician sage

Heard in Hooterville, 2008.
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#4 canyonman

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 09:49 AM

I removed the servo from my bike to have the ecu replaced a couple weeks ago. Mine was/is located under the seat.

Mine is already wired to the ecu, I dont believe I have the dip set to ecu I'll have to double check that.

Mine worked ok on the flats when it was cool but hills and rising temps would make it drop out.

When I put it back in I will make sure the dip is set to ecu and see how it works after that. I was going to add a couple more

vacuum sources ( only using one right now) but I'll hold off on that so not to screw up the resulting data.

Does anyone have the part# of the check valves smitty uses? the one I have is the double outlet one from napa.

Probably be a couple weeks before I'll have any info.

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#5 rfulcher

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 06:12 PM

QUOTE (canyonman @ May 20 2008, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I removed the servo from my bike to have the ecu replaced a couple weeks ago. Mine was/is located under the seat.

Mine is already wired to the ecu, I dont believe I have the dip set to ecu I'll have to double check that.

Mine worked ok on the flats when it was cool but hills and rising temps would make it drop out.

When I put it back in I will make sure the dip is set to ecu and see how it works after that. I was going to add a couple more

vacuum sources ( only using one right now) but I'll hold off on that so not to screw up the resulting data.

Does anyone have the part# of the check valves smitty uses? the one I have is the double outlet one from napa.

Probably be a couple weeks before I'll have any info.


It would be a hoot if all you had to do was flip the #7 switch to the ECU setting. This could help to verify the fix. This would be a good thing for sure.
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#6 dcarver

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 06:45 PM

Props to you mi amigo, rfulcher! I would have so tossed the avcc by now.. but you stuck to it.. yahoo.gif
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#7 bmwhd

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:15 PM

Excellent! I may try this tomorrow just for grins. Mine doesn't cut out often so it may take a while to determine if it made a difference for me.
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#8 CHRIS_D

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 06:46 PM

Boy, I hope this is the fix..... I been dying to get a cruise control and since the AVCC has been so up in the air with problems on GEN 2 and I just can't seem to justify spending $850 for MCC's cruise, I have been SOL. Please keep us advised.

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#9 timalan

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 07:51 AM

Just a quicky did you remove the resistor on the blue wire or keep it? And How did you attach the blue to the orange? one of those stupid clipy things or another way?
Thanks
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#10 rfulcher

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (timalan @ May 29 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just a quicky did you remove the resistor on the blue wire or keep it?
Shortened the wire on both ends and moved the resistor as close to the servo as was reasonable

And How did you attach the blue to the orange? one of those stupid clipy things or another way?
I used a Posi-Tap. those clipy things cut wires and make bad connections
Thanks


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#11 TriggerT

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 02:22 AM

QUOTE (CHRIS_D @ May 24 2008, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Boy, I hope this is the fix..... I been dying to get a cruise control and since the AVCC has been so up in the air with problems on GEN 2 and I just can't seem to justify spending $850 for MCC's cruise, I have been SOL. Please keep us advised.


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#12 Fred W

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 07:06 AM

The orange wire (on botha first and second gen) is not a speed signal.
It is the trigger to the primary of one of the two ignition coils.
You are therefore still running the AVCC on a coil signal, just it's closer to the ECU.

On a 1st gen the speed sensor signal is a white / yellow wire to the ECU.
I cannot find a speed sensor on the second gen schematic. It may be that they use the ABS sensors for speed input since all 2nd gens have ABS.

[edit] there is a speed sensor on the AE's used for the YCCS, but that doesn't seem to tie into the ECU

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#13 timalan

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 04:51 AM

QUOTE (rfulcher @ May 29 2008, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (timalan @ May 29 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just a quicky did you remove the resistor on the blue wire or keep it?
Shortened the wire on both ends and moved the resistor as close to the servo as was reasonable

And How did you attach the blue to the orange? one of those stupid clipy things or another way?
I used a Posi-Tap. those clipy things cut wires and make bad connections
Thanks


Hey,
I reworked my Cruise control Chain last night by moving the cable forward and used a Pitch Trim Pully from Some airplane. Chain fit perfect Into the pulley. It solved my Out of travel drop out. It solved my surge at low speeds. I can tap resume to increase a half MPH at a time and Tap coast down Half MPH per tap. Works flawlessly. I am very happy. Again no camera(damn UPS crushed it for bestbuy) And they can't work out the details to give me a new one....

I also moved the blue wire down to the orange Coil wire at the ECU Plug. Resistor and blue wire are now about three inches long.

I will throw my wife on tonight and Ride to Joplin and back to see if it will hold. supposed to be near 100 degrees today so That will simulate Heat. My wife will simulate extra load.... No jokes here... she is a small one. Maybe I'll throw on my prepacked camping float bag. 200 miles is surely enough to tell if it works right?
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#14 rfulcher

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:32 AM

Heat, time, distance, and hills are what you need for a complete test. Any hills involved in the ride? The shortened blue wire to the orange wire at the ECU made everything fine for me except for on hills. Changing DIP switch 7 to ECU seemed to solve that problem for me, maybe changing the DIP switch was all that was needed? Tomorrow I leave for a long 5 day ride up to the Smoky Mountains so I will finally get to prove or disprove the fix on my bike with a valid test.


QUOTE (timalan @ Jun 3 2008, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (rfulcher @ May 29 2008, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (timalan @ May 29 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just a quicky did you remove the resistor on the blue wire or keep it?
Shortened the wire on both ends and moved the resistor as close to the servo as was reasonable

And How did you attach the blue to the orange? one of those stupid clipy things or another way?
I used a Posi-Tap. those clipy things cut wires and make bad connections
Thanks


Hey,
I reworked my Cruise control Chain last night by moving the cable forward and used a Pitch Trim Pully from Some airplane. Chain fit perfect Into the pulley. It solved my Out of travel drop out. It solved my surge at low speeds. I can tap resume to increase a half MPH at a time and Tap coast down Half MPH per tap. Works flawlessly. I am very happy. Again no camera(damn UPS crushed it for bestbuy) And they can't work out the details to give me a new one....

I also moved the blue wire down to the orange Coil wire at the ECU Plug. Resistor and blue wire are now about three inches long.

I will throw my wife on tonight and Ride to Joplin and back to see if it will hold. supposed to be near 100 degrees today so That will simulate Heat. My wife will simulate extra load.... No jokes here... she is a small one. Maybe I'll throw on my prepacked camping float bag. 200 miles is surely enough to tell if it works right?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke
"Sometimes the magic works, and sometimes it doesn't." Old Lodge Skins

#15 timalan

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:15 AM

OH! I left that out. I also followed your lead and flipped the dip switch 7 to OFF.
I figured two test bikes is better than ONE. Thanks for your tips... I hope you found the answer.
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#16 Fred W

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:49 AM

Guys,

Moving the blue "Tach" signal wire from it's normal position (at the coil negative side) to the orange wire at the ECU is not really doing anything. It is just the opposite end of the same wire. The negative side of the two coils are the Orange wire and the Gray/red wire. Which one you use is of no consequence and it should not matter which end of the wire you are at.

[edit] Unless, the reason it works better is because you are not running the tach sense wire through the electrically noisy engine compartment and therefore getting a cleaner signal.


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#17 timalan

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE (Fred W @ Jun 3 2008, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guys,

Moving the blue "Tach" signal wire from it's normal position (at the coil negative side) to the orange wire at the ECU is not really doing anything. It is just the opposite end of the same wire. The negative side of the two coils are the Orange wire and the Gray/red wire. Which one you use is of no consequence and it should not matter which end of the wire you are at.

[edit] Unless, the reason it works better is because you are not running the tach sense wire through the electrically noisy engine compartment and therefore getting a cleaner signal.

I was going to look on my O scope but didn't take the time. I think running the blue wire down all four sparkplug wires and through the engine compartment may be part of it (too much noise on the line). The book actually says not to run the wire near any spark plug wires. Impossible using the coil end of the wire. I also thought about just running a shielded wire. But tried this first. If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.
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#18 Fred W

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (timalan @ Jun 3 2008, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Fred W @ Jun 3 2008, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guys,

Moving the blue "Tach" signal wire from it's normal position (at the coil negative side) to the orange wire at the ECU is not really doing anything. It is just the opposite end of the same wire. The negative side of the two coils are the Orange wire and the Gray/red wire. Which one you use is of no consequence and it should not matter which end of the wire you are at.

[edit] Unless, the reason it works better is because you are not running the Tach sense wire through the electrically noisy engine compartment and therefore getting a cleaner signal.


I was going to look on my O scope but didn't take the time. I think running the blue wire down all four sparkplug wires and through the engine compartment may be part of it (too much noise on the line). The book actually says not to run the wire near any spark plug wires. Impossible using the coil end of the wire. I also thought about just running a shielded wire. But tried this first. If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.


I'm actually mid-way into my CC installation, which is one reason I am so interested in this thread. Looking at the layout of the blue wire, for some strange reason AudioVox put the "noise suppressor" toward the far end of the wire. That would mean that the suppressor would not filter any noise induced into the blue Tach Signal wire as it passes through our noisy engine compartment.

I have opted to tap into the coil wire at the ECU, which is convenient since I am putting the servo (and vacuum reservoir) where the tool tray used to reside. I just folded the extra blue wire into the corrugated tube. Mine is a 1st Gen, and those aren't supposed to have any of the problems that the 2nd gens do. But I figured it couldn't hurt to get a cleaner signal since it is so convenient.

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#19 rfulcher

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE (timalan @ Jun 3 2008, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If we still have a failure mode I'll take home the recording O scope and ride with it and see what happens.



I hope you don't have a failure mode, but that would be a cool piece of information to have.



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#20 ionbeam

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:41 PM

This is an automotive cruise control intended for cars and trucks with much slower ignition firing rates. It has to work on older vehicles as well as newer one. The manual only says to hook the blue wire to the ground side of the coil and select Coil or ECU. In some vehicles the ground side of the coil may either be a point set or the output of an ignition module. This would constitute the 'Coil' selection for DIP switch position 7. If the ignition system has an ignition module, the module would be receiving a square shaped pulse of some duty cycle from the PCM/ECU. This relatively clean pulse will drive the ignition module which isolates the switching of coil’s primary winding. You would select the ECU position in this case.

The FJR's ECU is directly grounding the negative side of the coil via the orange and gray/red wire. The kick back voltage from the primary side of the coil can be pretty wild looking with a point breaker system. The FJR ECU will make some effort to snub the back EMF as well as dampen the ringing.

The Servo's only active component is a modified error amplifier style electrical motor controller. The AVCC servo receives the coil/ECU signal, then with only minor filtering and voltage clamping by passive devices the signal is fed directly to the servo's controller. I don't have the chip data sheet for the proprietary servo chip but I can speculate that the coil/ECU DIP switch sets up different forms of internal digital filtering for the signal.

It is good design practice to place the signal source as close to the controller as possible, especially in 'dirty' electrical environments like a motorcycle. I'm betting that the signal on a shortened blue wire, tapped as close to the ECU as possible is a much cleaner signal. Depending on the amount of electrical dampening done by the ECU, the signal is more likely to resemble a square wave than a normal ringing DQ signal off of the coil's ground wire. I have PMed a couple of people some screen shots of a point ignition wave vs an ECU signal that triggers an ignition module. I've got them up on Photobucket if anyone is interested.

At some point I guess that Fred and I could have an O’scope session and see if there are any differences in the way the Gen I and Gen II ECUs fire the coils.