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Valve Checks vs. Adjustment Required Poll


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Poll: Valve Service Requirements (177 member(s) have cast votes)

On your 1st Valve Service did they/you have to adjust any shims?

  1. I paid a shop to do it and they did not have to adjust (change) any shims (69 votes [38.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.33%

  2. I did it myself and I did not have to change any shims (62 votes [34.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.44%

  3. I paid a shop to do it and they had to change one or more shims (7 votes [3.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.89%

  4. I did it myself and I had to change oneor more shims (14 votes [7.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.78%

  5. What's a valve? (28 votes [15.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.56%

On your 2nd Scheduled Valve service, did they/you have to adjust any shims?

  1. I paid a shop and they did not have to adjust any shims (30 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. I did it myself and I did not have to change any shims (31 votes [17.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.22%

  3. I paid a shop to do it and they had to change one or more shims (12 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  4. I did it myself and I had to change one or more shims (12 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  5. What the F*&$ is a shim? (95 votes [52.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.78%

On your 3rd, 4th and 5th valve checks... (ckeck as many as apppropriate)

  1. 3rd check and no adjustment required (18 votes [12.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.95%

  2. 3rd check adjustment was required (10 votes [7.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.19%

  3. 4th check and no adjustment required (7 votes [5.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.04%

  4. 4th check adjustment was required (4 votes [2.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.88%

  5. 5th check and no adjustment required (3 votes [2.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.16%

  6. 5th check adjustment was required (2 votes [1.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.44%

  7. I paid to have these checks / adjustments (21 votes [15.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.11%

  8. I do 'em myself (74 votes [53.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.24%

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#41 Fred W

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 12:58 PM

Well, I must be using the right oil, or additives (STP) or maybe it's just clean living?
Ya right...:rolleyes:


Things were kind of slow at work today, so I decided to go on down into the garage and crank out my 50k maintenance, including the valve clearance check/adjust.
I do everything on the 5k's, all the oil changes etc, Just makes it easier for me to remember.

Anyway, all of my clearances measured exactly what they did at 25k miles. Every intake was somewhere between .006 and .007 (an .006 feeler is a go and the .007 no-go) and every exhaust is between .008 and .009. Just like it was the last time. I had thought for sure that I would be chasing down some new shims, as there are a couple of intakes that are a tight .006, but those same valves are right where they were last time.

One added note: total parts required? Just 3 o-rings, which I already had from the first check.
Re-used the cover gasket again and never took off the timing cover (though I have a gasket on standby)

It was also much quicker to do the second time around...

Ready for another 25k. See ya again at 75k, cams. Woo-Hoo!!

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#42 jpcfjr

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:10 AM

Well, I must be using the right oil, or additives (STP) or maybe it's just clean living?
Ya right...:rolleyes:


Things were kind of slow at work today, so I decided to go on down into the garage and crank out my 50k maintenance, including the valve clearance check/adjust.
I do everything on the 5k's, all the oil changes etc, Just makes it easier for me to remember.

Anyway, all of my clearances measured exactly what they did at 25k miles. Every intake was somewhere between .006 and .007 (an .006 feeler is a go and the .007 no-go) and every exhaust is between .008 and .009. Just like it was the last time. I had thought for sure that I would be chasing down some new shims, as there are a couple of intakes that are a tight .006, but those same valves are right where they were last time.

One added note: total parts required? Just 3 o-rings, which I already had from the first check.
Re-used the cover gasket again and never took off the timing cover (though I have a gasket on standby)

It was also much quicker to do the second time around...

Ready for another 25k. See ya again at 75k, cams. Woo-Hoo!!

Fred W, How long did this job take you? I am contemplating doing the valve check myself and after reading this entire thread, I think I will take a crack at it. I've not seen anyone post how long it took.

Your guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

j

Edited by jpcfjr, 05 July 2011 - 10:11 AM.

Why would I want to be a member of a club whose only requirement is that I dropped or crashed my motorcycle? Pass. Update 6/4/12...well, I didn't crash MY motorcycle! Damned Dragon.

Now every morning I get to decide between my new old bike (2012 Triumph Speed Triple R) and my old new bike (2009 Yamaha FJR). Tough call.


#43 Fred W

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 02:54 AM

Fred W, How long did this job take you? I am contemplating doing the valve check myself and after reading this entire thread, I think I will take a crack at it. I've not seen anyone post how long it took.

Your guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

j


Total time will vary depending on many factors. Because I had done it before and had removed the PAIR plumbing last time, it took ~ 3 hours. Most of that was time being anal retntive about vacuuming grit and dirt up before opening the top end up. The actual checking takes maybe a minute or two once you get the valve cover off. I put the trans in 5th gear and use the rear wheel to advance the cam position, that way don't need to remove the timing chain cover unless you need to adjust shims.

On a first gen you only need to remove the seat, raise the tank up high and tie it back to the luggage rack (disconnect the two electrical connectors underneath to get the tank up to 90 degrees), remove the A panel to access the radiator fill cap (with a great deal of panel flexing), remove the lower right front faring panel to get at the coolant bottle and drain hole.

The less junk you have to remove the faster the whole procedure will go.

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#44 jpcfjr

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 11:47 AM

Just got the bike buttoned back up so now I can officially vote in this poll. Are you phucking kidding me? I'm one of only 8 people that had to change a shim?????

Well, relatively easy but time consuming job. I had to change out one of the exhaust shims on cylinder 3. It was actually very easy. And the shop gave me the shim for free. Hardest part was getting that POS gasket back under the valve cover. After many, MANY tries I finally used some gasket sealer to get the rubber to stay on the cover for installation. Just couldn't figure any other way to do it.

If you want to do this job this link is the way to go... http//www.fjr1300.info/howto/valveadj.html

Special thanks to TahoeBound for some pre-work confidence building. My adice, contact someone who has done this job on the forum and pick his/her brain. Anyone that wants advice feel free to contact me.

Why would I want to be a member of a club whose only requirement is that I dropped or crashed my motorcycle? Pass. Update 6/4/12...well, I didn't crash MY motorcycle! Damned Dragon.

Now every morning I get to decide between my new old bike (2012 Triumph Speed Triple R) and my old new bike (2009 Yamaha FJR). Tough call.


#45 Fred W

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:08 PM

How much was that shim out? and where did you shim it to? Just curious.

In both times that I've done my checks (no adjusts needed :P ) I managed to leave the gasket stuck to the valve cover.
If it had come off I'd have done exactly what you did. Silicone seal it to the cover.

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#46 jpcfjr

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 12:38 PM

How much was that shim out? and where did you shim it to? Just curious.

In both times that I've done my checks (no adjusts needed :P ) I managed to leave the gasket stuck to the valve cover.
If it had come off I'd have done exactly what you did. Silicone seal it to the cover.

The factory shim was 181 and I had to go up one size to 185. So the gap was too large meaning the valve was not opening up enough...breathing is good! To get a little more technical on your buttocks... 0.010" (.254mm) slid in easily but 0.011 (.279mm) would not so I was just outside the top of the spec which is 0.0098" (.25mm). According to my calculations, dropping the clearance down by .04mm (181 to 185) would do the trick...and it did.

Edit: Thank you Jackass Yamaha engineers. You could have just as easily manufactured the groove for the gasket IN THE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE COVER! Don't you think that would have been a LITTLE easier for us part time mechanics????

Edited by jpcfjr, 14 August 2011 - 01:18 PM.

Why would I want to be a member of a club whose only requirement is that I dropped or crashed my motorcycle? Pass. Update 6/4/12...well, I didn't crash MY motorcycle! Damned Dragon.

Now every morning I get to decide between my new old bike (2012 Triumph Speed Triple R) and my old new bike (2009 Yamaha FJR). Tough call.


#47 Fred W

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 02:43 AM


How much was that shim out? and where did you shim it to? Just curious.


The factory shim was 181 and I had to go up one size to 185. So the gap was too large meaning the valve was not opening up enough...breathing is good! To get a little more technical on your buttocks... 0.010" (.254mm) slid in easily but 0.011 (.279mm) would not so I was just outside the top of the spec which is 0.0098" (.25mm). According to my calculations, dropping the clearance down by .04mm (181 to 185) would do the trick...and it did.


Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Also, that is an unusual wear pattern. Normally, what wears on a valve is the seat interface, as that is where the unlubricated friction happens. When that happens the clearances get tighter, not looser. If I found a valve whose clearance was growing I'd suspect some sort of carbon build-up might be occurring on the seat face. You might want to do a compression check on your engine and compare #3 to the others. Of course this is assuming that everything was properly in spec when originally assembled. At least you know what the clearances are now and can compare in another 25k miles.


Edit: Thank you Jackass Yamaha engineers. You could have just as easily manufactured the groove for the gasket IN THE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE COVER! Don't you think that would have been a LITTLE easier for us part time mechanics????


Actually, this is the industry standard way to mount a valve cover gasket. It's done this way on most automotive engines that have profile type gaskets too. For one thing, it's a lot easier to fiddle with the gasket getting it seated in the groove on a work bench than it is inside the engine compartment. And, as you figured out, it's pretty easy to make it stick in place with a little goo of some type.

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#48 jpcfjr

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 03:12 AM



How much was that shim out? and where did you shim it to? Just curious.


The factory shim was 181 and I had to go up one size to 185. So the gap was too large meaning the valve was not opening up enough...breathing is good! To get a little more technical on your buttocks... 0.010" (.254mm) slid in easily but 0.011 (.279mm) would not so I was just outside the top of the spec which is 0.0098" (.25mm). According to my calculations, dropping the clearance down by .04mm (181 to 185) would do the trick...and it did.


Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Also, that is an unusual wear pattern. Normally, what wears on a valve is the seat interface, as that is where the unlubricated friction happens. When that happens the clearances get tighter, not looser. If I found a valve whose clearance was growing I'd suspect some sort of carbon build-up might be occurring on the seat face. You might want to do a compression check on your engine and compare #3 to the others. Of course this is assuming that everything was properly in spec when originally assembled. At least you know what the clearances are now and can compare in another 25k miles.


Edit: Thank you Jackass Yamaha engineers. You could have just as easily manufactured the groove for the gasket IN THE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE COVER! Don't you think that would have been a LITTLE easier for us part time mechanics????


Actually, this is the industry standard way to mount a valve cover gasket. It's done this way on most automotive engines that have profile type gaskets too. For one thing, it's a lot easier to fiddle with the gasket getting it seated in the groove on a work bench than it is inside the engine compartment. And, as you figured out, it's pretty easy to make it stick in place with a little goo of some type.

I believe that the valve in question on my bike was out of spec from the factory. Because if there was some carbon build up on that valve, why not the other one in that cylinder (or all 4 for that matter)? I checked the shims (both the one I took out of the bike and the one I put in) with my digital caliper and both were spot on. The shims don't wear much if at all. In fact, the shop usually takes them in on trade and reuses the ones they get in. Wear on the shim would of course also cause a loose situation. Obviously the cam is not wearing on the non lobe portion. That leaves wear on the bucket...unlikely, or the end of the valve stem, also seems unlikely. The only conclusion I can reach is that you are correct, that it could be a carbon build up. However since there was only one out in that cylinder, I'm inclined to think it was out of spec from the factory. Helps me sleep better at night.

I was half way joking about the gasket...half way.

Why would I want to be a member of a club whose only requirement is that I dropped or crashed my motorcycle? Pass. Update 6/4/12...well, I didn't crash MY motorcycle! Damned Dragon.

Now every morning I get to decide between my new old bike (2012 Triumph Speed Triple R) and my old new bike (2009 Yamaha FJR). Tough call.


#49 El Toro Joe

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 03:24 AM

No shimming req'd @ just under 50k

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#50 Pepperell

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 04:50 AM

First check was at 30k-ish. Two valves seemed tight to me so I was able to swap one and buy one shim. The low end spec was very tight, a dealer probably would have given it a pass, but I was already there, so I changed em.

Toughest part was finding a suction cup to get the bucket off. I found one that I trimmed the outer edge off to make it small enough. It was either that or get out the vice-grips!
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#51 RadioHowie

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 05:24 AM

Toughest part was finding a suction cup to get the bucket off. I found one that I trimmed the outer edge off to make it small enough. It was either that or get out the vice-grips!


One of these, Magnet-On-A-Stick, works MUCH better!

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#52 jpcfjr

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 04:07 PM


Toughest part was finding a suction cup to get the bucket off. I found one that I trimmed the outer edge off to make it small enough. It was either that or get out the vice-grips!


One of these, Magnet-On-A-Stick, works MUCH better!

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Yeaaaah, the old magnet trick. They told me about that at the dealer when I went in to get the new shim. I was bitching about how hard it was to get the damn bucket out and they laughed at me and said, we just use a magnet!

Fargin bastages.

Why would I want to be a member of a club whose only requirement is that I dropped or crashed my motorcycle? Pass. Update 6/4/12...well, I didn't crash MY motorcycle! Damned Dragon.

Now every morning I get to decide between my new old bike (2012 Triumph Speed Triple R) and my old new bike (2009 Yamaha FJR). Tough call.


#53 RossKean

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 06:59 PM

First valve check at 50,000 miles. Three intake valves were at 0.15mm (minimum spec) Everything else was 0.16 or higher (but well below max) so I called it a day. Exhaust valves were all OK. Will make sure to do the next valve check in another 25,000 miles or so and pay particular to the ones that were low. I used Yamafitter's Excel spreadsheet application. Didn't need it for calculation since no changes were needed but it makes for decent record keeping for the next time. Thanks Bill.

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#54 HawkWing

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:25 PM

Doing my first valve check/adjust at 30000. All measurements check out within spec, except two exhausts: cyl. 1-1 @ .0102" (the 2/10000 is my best guess, based on tight fit of a .010" feeler gauge); and cyl. 4-1 @ .0100 (again, based on feel). The spec max for exhaust valves is .098" I'm debating whether to risk complications (skipped sprocket teeth, etc) for making such a small and (to me) inconsequential adjustment of a VERY slightly out-of-spec valve. Any guidance or advice would be greatly appreciated. What would you do-- increase shim thickness .05mm, or leave it alone for another 15-20 thousand miles and re-check? Perhaps give it Fred's Seafoam treatment and see if that brings it into compliance (by blowing out any carbon buildup)? Of course, the answer I like best is the one where I button it up tomorrow and put some serious fun between my legs asap. :scooter:

#55 Fred W

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:28 AM

Of course, the answer I like best is the one where I button it up tomorrow and put some serious fun between my legs asap. :scooter:



That would be my answer. :thumbsup:

The reason the spec is .0098 and not .0100 is just because the engineers setting the spec are doing so metrically and the conversion gives you odd numbers like that. And let's be serious here, nobody can measure .0002" with a feeler guage

For all intents and purposes you are in spec. Besides, the wide end of spec isn't the one that you have to worry about. And it should not be getting wider from wear (only from carbon build-up like you mentioned). There is probably more danger in adjusting the clearances down on a gunked up engine, and then having the gunk clear up for some reason (brisk riding or fuel additives) which then causes your newly adjusted clearances to be too tight.

Nope, I wouldn't touch them at that. Just make note of the gaps and compare them the next time. Maybe run some Techron, Seafoam or Ring Free during the next 30k miles.

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#56 HawkWing

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:46 AM

Thanks, Fred, for the prompt advice. I'm going with your expertise. Will button her up, add some techron for awhile, and give another check at 50000. Didn't want to disturb that persnickity CCT anyway. You guys ROCK! :clapping:
Will keep y'all posted.

Oh, yeah- also to-do:
1) Complete this poll
2) TBS (already yanked & plugged PAIR plumbing)
3) New CR8EIX's
4) Button her up and let the fun begin. :D

Edited by HawkWing, 23 September 2011 - 07:23 AM.


#57 bigtallguy

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 07:43 PM

Finally got around to checking mine with about 30k miles on it. I used the go/no-go method and all were within the range :yahoo: I was very glad I didn't have to change any out. On the last moto I had, I mis-timed the cams and bent valves, so needless to say I was nervous :dribble:

I guess I was lucky and had no issues with the head cover gasket.


Now I have to install a cruise control, stainless brake lines, and change the front tire....

Edited by bigtallguy, 22 October 2011 - 07:52 PM.

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#58 TomInCA

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:52 AM

First check at 27,100 and all passed with easy pass on the minimum clearance, and nothing passing greater than the max allowable. Thanks again to Fred for his help with the Notes on Valve Clearance Check and the Gen I CCT replacement. Radio Howie for photos in the Cam Chain Replacement, The technical resources on this forum are among the best.

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#59 Bounce

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:08 PM

The original seems to hint about if there's a need to bother even checking until later. I suspect Fred would not skip required maint but that it's just the way it's worded.

There's a thread here somewhere about what an owner went through when he played the odds and lost.
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#60 Fred W

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:21 PM

The original seems to hint about if there's a need to bother even checking until later. I suspect Fred would not skip required maint but that it's just the way it's worded.

There's a thread here somewhere about what an owner went through when he played the odds and lost.


Of course everyone is free to form their own conclusions based on the raw data... But that definitely was not where I was going with this poll at all.

What I was attempting to prove was that bike shops were more likely to say that the shims needed adjustment than a conscientious DIY owner. Afterall they do have a conflict of interest to drum up more business for themselves. Somewhat happily, I think that the statistics prove that this is not the case at all. In Myth Buster parlance, that hypothesis has been BUSTED!

It is of interest that so few engines (percentage wise) need an adjustment at each check. But the number that do need adjustment is still significant enough that it is definitely not worth the risk of skipping these checks.

Besides... It's fun!

[edit] I'm sure that I reported this elsewhere already, but my second valve check went much faster and smoother than the first one (which was when I started this thread). I knocked it out in a couple of hours one day. Once you know what you are doing it's a piece of cake. I really think that everyone should do the check (at least), If it needs adjustment you can always chicken out then and send it to the shop. Odds are in your favor that the clearances will be in spec and you'll be ahead a good chunk of money and gained a great deal of personal satisfaction.

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