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Replacing Fork Seals and Bushings


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#1 dcarver

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 09:07 PM

Blown Gen II fork seal. Got the innards out and inner/outer tube separated.

Question - what have you done to reseat the bushings for reassembly? I called GPS, Ben stated they built special tools to seat the mid and upper busing into the outer tube. What have you used?

Some pix..
The entire assembly. Each bushing is approximately located where it would be when assembled, fully compressed.


Close up of the bushings.


Here you can see where bushings 'bottom out' on the ridges. The 'middle' bushing sits about 4 - 5 inches deep from the seal, the 'upper' bushing sits just below the seal. Ben said the upper bushing can be driven in place by using the flat washer and normal seal driver + heat.


Another whole picture shot..


And finally, a little motobike juxtaposition at 38 degrees F.


Soo, for you do-it-yourselfer's, what have you used to seat these bushings?
PVC pipe?
Yamaha high dollar fixture part?
?????





Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#2 RTSR1/FJR

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 06:41 AM

As far as the damper rod holder goes, I found that if you just loosen the forkcap, then use a impact gun on the rod retaining bolt when the fork leg is inverted over a pan is all that is required. Then you can separate the tube and slider and dump out the oil. As for the bushing/seal driver, one of the premade units is hard to beat. Once bought, you'll have it whenever you need it then. Find them here:

http://www.motionpro...k_seal_drivers/

#3 Bustanut joker

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 06:55 AM

PVC Pipe worked out for me, just have to make sure the end is cut flat otherwise you will do considerable cussing wink.gif

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#4 El Toro

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 06:55 AM

QUOTE (RTSR1/FJR @ Dec 27 2008, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as the damper rod holder goes, I found that if you just loosen the forkcap, then use a impact gun on the rod retaining bolt when the fork leg is inverted over a pan is all that is required. Then you can separate the tube and slider and dump out the oil. As for the bushing/seal driver, one of the premade units is hard to beat. Once bought, you'll have it whenever you need it then. Find them here:

http://www.motionpro...k_seal_drivers/


I use the motion pro tools and I think they are well made, commensurate with the price point.


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#5 Nikk

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 07:33 AM

Sorry dcarver, I'm not answering your questions; but have a related question on the procedure. If nothing else this will at least bump your thread smile.gif

Did you use the car jack method to pop the fork seal?
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#6 dcarver

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (RTSR1/FJR @ Dec 27 2008, 06:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as the damper rod holder goes, I found that if you just loosen the forkcap, then use a impact gun on the rod retaining bolt when the fork leg is inverted over a pan is all that is required. Then you can separate the tube and slider and dump out the oil. As for the bushing/seal driver, one of the premade units is hard to beat. Once bought, you'll have it whenever you need it then. Find them here:

http://www.motionpro...k_seal_drivers/



QUOTE (El Toro @ Dec 27 2008, 06:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (RTSR1/FJR @ Dec 27 2008, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as the damper rod holder goes, I found that if you just loosen the forkcap, then use a impact gun on the rod retaining bolt when the fork leg is inverted over a pan is all that is required. Then you can separate the tube and slider and dump out the oil. As for the bushing/seal driver, one of the premade units is hard to beat. Once bought, you'll have it whenever you need it then. Find them here:

http://www.motionpro...k_seal_drivers/


I use the motion pro tools and I think they are well made, commensurate with the price point.



For clarification, this tool will seat Gen II bushings? The 'middle bushing' sits approximately 4" deep in the outer tube, and is the difficult one I've been told to get seated correctly.


QUOTE
Sorry dcarver, I'm not answering your questions; but have a related question on the procedure. If nothing else this will at least bump your thread smile.gif

Did you use the car jack method to pop the fork seal?

No, I don't even know what that method is... rolleyes.gif I simply clamped the outer fork tube into a soft-jawed vice, applied heat to the outer fork tube using a propane torch (heat from outer fork tube lip down about 6 inches) until it was just too hot to touch by hand. Gently but firmly pull the inner tube out, using it as a slide hammer. Use multiple hits. Keep applying heat. I destroyed my bushings by not applying enough heat and popping the tubes with too much force, causing the middle bushing to destroy the lower bushing.

My first time, I'm still much better off $$$ wise than having a shop do it, and know I know better!


Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#7 El Toro

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 10:45 AM

I probably shouldn't have posted since my experience is on other models. I have not had to take the forks apart on my FJR yet.

I have used the Motion Pro drivers on other bikes with good success. It does seem a shame to buy a tool for one job and then have it set a long time before another use.

I've got to admit that I hate rebuilding forks. Its one of the messiest jobs, especially if you're cleaning up after someone else who did not regularly change fork oil.

As for the damper rod, you might get it with an impact wrench.... and again, I have not done an FJR, but my experience has also required me to make tools for this job on some bikes, using very long socket extensions and customized end pieces to apply the holding force. Some of the universal holders have been useless in my experience, and I've tried to buy holders from Yamaha for a few bikes without success (admittedly they were old enough that the fact that Yamaha was no longer supporting special tools for them was no mark against Yamaha).

The Haynes manuals will sometimes give tips about making your own tools for various jobs like this. I prefer the factory manual in general, but sometimes Haynes has useful information about short cuts or custom tools.
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#8 dcarver

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (El Toro @ Dec 27 2008, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I probably shouldn't have posted since my experience is on other models. I have not had to take the forks apart on my FJR yet.

I have used the Motion Pro drivers on other bikes with good success. It does seem a shame to buy a tool for one job and then have it set a long time before another use.

I've got to admit that I hate rebuilding forks. Its one of the messiest jobs, especially if you're cleaning up after someone else who did not regularly change fork oil.

As for the damper rod, you might get it with an impact wrench.... and again, I have not done an FJR, but my experience has also required me to make tools for this job on some bikes, using very long socket extensions and customized end pieces to apply the holding force. Some of the universal holders have been useless in my experience, and I've tried to buy holders from Yamaha for a few bikes without success (admittedly they were old enough that the fact that Yamaha was no longer supporting special tools for them was no mark against Yamaha).

The Haynes manuals will sometimes give tips about making your own tools for various jobs like this. I prefer the factory manual in general, but sometimes Haynes has useful information about short cuts or custom tools.


LOL on the job being messy. The Gen II's are different than any other fork I've rebuilt due to the 3 bushing arrangement. Getting the innards out (dampner, spring, valving, etc) was really easy. My tip is to leave the top cap on, keeping pressure on the assembly. Hit the 8 mm hex with an impact wrench and it's done.

I just might take some measurments then see if my bud can turn a special tool out of delrin or something..
Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#9 RTSR1/FJR

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 02:28 PM

QUOTE (dcarver @ Dec 27 2008, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (El Toro @ Dec 27 2008, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I probably shouldn't have posted since my experience is on other models. I have not had to take the forks apart on my FJR yet.

I have used the Motion Pro drivers on other bikes with good success. It does seem a shame to buy a tool for one job and then have it set a long time before another use.

I've got to admit that I hate rebuilding forks. Its one of the messiest jobs, especially if you're cleaning up after someone else who did not regularly change fork oil.

As for the damper rod, you might get it with an impact wrench.... and again, I have not done an FJR, but my experience has also required me to make tools for this job on some bikes, using very long socket extensions and customized end pieces to apply the holding force. Some of the universal holders have been useless in my experience, and I've tried to buy holders from Yamaha for a few bikes without success (admittedly they were old enough that the fact that Yamaha was no longer supporting special tools for them was no mark against Yamaha).

The Haynes manuals will sometimes give tips about making your own tools for various jobs like this. I prefer the factory manual in general, but sometimes Haynes has useful information about short cuts or custom tools.



LOL on the job being messy. The Gen II's are different than any other fork I've rebuilt due to the 3 bushing arrangement. Getting the innards out (dampner, spring, valving, etc) was really easy. My tip is to leave the top cap on, keeping pressure on the assembly. Hit the 8 mm hex with an impact wrench and it's done.

I just might take some measurments then see if my bud can turn a special tool out of delrin or something..


I've not ran into that either yet. Haven't done an '06+. Might be able to slip some conduit (split it length wise for a tight fit) or something over the inner tube and drive it with the driver then. As for the Damper Rod, leave the Fork leg intact(spring and all), just crack loose the fork cap and then remove the bolt with a 1/2" air impact. They always come out for me. Not had one not yet. That being said, now I'll have a bitch of a time on the next! lol


#10 dsmack

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 02:44 PM

Don ~
I've used a MotionPro driver when rebuilding the forks on my old Kawa Zephyr, and it did work very well. I think you are correct in your thought that it won't work for the lower bushing though, due to the larger diameter of the tool at the top preventing it from reaching the depth required.

Your idea of Delrin is good, another possible alternative would be a piece of brass tubing the correct diameter, turned-down if needed for an exact fit. PVC pipe has also served well in a pinch, again turned down on a lathe for appropriate fit.

The advantage of Delrin or PVC is that it will non-marring to the interior bore surface of the fork leg, an important consideration!

Let us know what works out for you.

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#11 dcarver

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE (dsmack @ Dec 27 2008, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don ~
I've used a MotionPro driver when rebuilding the forks on my old Kawa Zephyr, and it did work very well. I think you are correct in your thought that it won't work for the lower bushing though, due to the larger diameter of the tool at the top preventing it from reaching the depth required.

Your idea of Delrin is good, another possible alternative would be a piece of brass tubing the correct diameter, turned-down if needed for an exact fit. PVC pipe has also served well in a pinch, again turned down on a lathe for appropriate fit.

The advantage of Delrin or PVC is that it will non-marring to the interior bore surface of the fork leg, an important consideration!

Let us know what works out for you.

Don

I think this is the road I'm about to travel. I took measurements of the inner tube OD, the middle bushing thickness, and the exact depth of the 'seat' point. I'll be searching the local hardware stores mananna looking for the cheap yet workable solution.

Honestly, I can't believe this hasn't been solved before... is this truly new ground? unsure.gif

Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#12 dcarver

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 07:00 PM

Guess I'll post back to my own thread rolleyes.gif .
I've been to every hardware store in 4 counties looking for just the right size pipe. PVC, EMT, fence poles, plastic sewer pipe, electrical pieces n parts, blah blah blah. Looked like a goofball with my digital dial calipers measuring everything in site.

I tried 2" copper pipe, sawed in half. It's not deep enough to work effectively nor does it have an area to 'hit' in order to drive the bushing home.




Then yet another bright idea entered my cranium scareabellium.. What about a muffler shop? They can 'expand' muffer pipe using hydraulics... yeah, that's the ticket.

Only problems?
1. Muffler shop could only 'poof' pipe in ~2 inch sections. To drive the bushing home, I need a section about 13" long.
2. The fork tube at the tip flares out, which I didn't notice until I got home and attempted to slide the sleeves over the inner fork tube top.



In the meantime,
1. I'm still waiting on parts (bushings, seals, washer) from good ol' Gary McCoy
2. I have some hope in having a custom made bushing driver created by some talented folks who swore me to secrecy pending how well it works.
3. I found a local independent shop who said they would drive both bushings home for 1/2 shop rate, or 45 bucks. Since I want to get Crzy8 back on the road (it's been 2 weeks now), I may just spend the $$ on the shop then continue this quest for a good part. I sure wish I had my own lathe, I know how to operate them and this would be so over. Hmm, now I think of it, I wonder if they would sell me whatever driver they use?

Sooo, fellow Feejer pilots, any other ideas? Or do ya'll just pay the shop prices? unsure.gif


Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#13 madmike2

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:27 PM

I paid the shop prices. For me..... it was worth the $100 to carry the forks to them @ 10 AM and pick them up that afternoon @ closing. rolleyes.gif

Your method is much more of an adventure and probably more fun. I just didn't have the time as I was leaving for Park City the following Saturday. blink.gif
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#14 just roy

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:30 PM

dcarver, i have a few machine tools and a little time so if you would like i could make you a tool simular to the motion pro but with a longer snout. it would clamp around the fork and you would have to provide a pipe to drive it down with. if it works you would have to do a write up and become custodian of the tool which would be a great honor. if your interested i would need a few dimensions and a couple of days.

on edit i dont come on here as often as in the summer so if you want a quicker response call me at (315)877-6820
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#15 dcarver

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE (just roy @ Jan 13 2009, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
dcarver, i have a few machine tools and a little time so if you would like i could make you a tool simular to the motion pro but with a longer snout. it would clamp around the fork and you would have to provide a pipe to drive it down with. if it works you would have to do a write up and become custodian of the tool which would be a great honor. if your interested i would need a few dimensions and a couple of days.

on edit i dont come on here as often as in the summer so if you want a quicker response call me at (315)877-6820

WOW, what a great offer, and Thank You!

..and with that, here is the update. Dave from GPS machined out a 'sleeve' with just the right spec's to drive the middle bushing in place. It wasn't 'tall' enough to clear the inner tube top, so I found that 1.5" PVC pipe, on the bell end, fit perfectly. Then I found a 1.5" pvc broken pipe fixer upper thing that worked OK, but not perfect. I ended up gluing a bell-end to the broken pipe adapter thingie then stacking some more sawed off bell-ends on top of that to drive the bushing home.

Actually, the fork seal gave me more trouble...

Just Roy - If you can machine to pretty tight spec's, e.g. you have lathe with big enough bed, I will happily send to you the part GP Suspension sent me, or provide exact dimensions for you, and PAY you for the part - then offer it for free use to Forum members. Of course, if someone stiffs the forum and doesn't return the tool, the wrath of the Forum in the most massive dog pile ever seen will prevail..

Let me know if you are interested...

dcarver
Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#16 just roy

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 07:57 PM

dcarver, yes i'm still interested in helping out you and the forum anyway i can. my big lathe can spin 16" X 52" so i dont see a problem. e-mail me what you want and exact specs or give me a call and we can talk about it. my e-mail is joshuaz2@hotmail.com
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#17 dcarver

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE (just roy @ Jan 28 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
dcarver, yes i'm still interested in helping out you and the forum anyway i can. my big lathe can spin 16" X 52" so i dont see a problem. e-mail me what you want and exact specs or give me a call and we can talk about it. my e-mail is joshuaz2@hotmail.com

Damn! 16x52 is impressive. I will contact you tomorrow, and Thank You!
This is what this forum is all about - riders helping riders.. so Thanks Again for your contribution... clapping.gif
Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#18 HaulinAshe

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 09:13 PM

The troublesome bushing (middle) is 48.05 mm i.d. x 53.0 mm o.d., when moderately compressed to close the split.
So any driver tool has to be a slip fit over the 48 mm inner tube. The o.d. has to be thin, I don't remember exactly HOW thin. I'll have to pull a fork to measure the chamber i.d.

A long driver tube is not the answer. A heavy steel collar at the upper end of a 8" sleeve will get the job done. The molded plastic dust shields on FJR forks makes the typical seal driver useless. It's a long way from the upper edge of the dust guard to the middle bushing.

I may be able to pull a fork and make measurements and drawings in a few days.

The older you are, the faster you used to be.

#19 dcarver

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 06:43 PM

Ok, I measured the sleeve GPS made for me:

ID = 48.05 mm
OD - 51.05 mm
Wall thickness = 1.55 mm

Haulin', I was thinking, that for simplicity, if the sleeve was long enough to extend past the inner tube top, when the inner is fully inserted into the outer, the sleeve could be hit with rubber or brass mallet to directly drive the middle bushing into place. If the sleeve had a 'cap' then the cap would take the abuse of the hit and not distort the sleeve.

I'm not sure what would be easier to machine, a longer sleeve with PVC cap (or whatever)
or
your idea of an 8" sleeve with heavy metal ring, kind of like a non-sliding slide hammer.

I will say that it doesn't take much force to seat the bushing, especially if the outer tube is pre-heated to expand.

Whatcha think HA? You're more of mekanic than I am.. smile.gif

I'll cut and paste this as PM to Just Roy to see if he's still interested.
Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#20 just roy

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:21 PM

dcarver and haulin. i prefer to gently persuade things rather than drive them so this is what i have in mind after seeing your photos and reading what you have written. . i assume the sleeve that was made by gps is solid not two piece like some fork seal drivers that you see for driving seals down on forks that are installed in the tree. i would make the two plates, screws and another sleeve to drive the seals. my only question is how much force is required to drive the bushing and seals? do we need the plate with the piece to fill-out the circle on the bottom clamp or would a simpler way to clamp it to the fork suffice? is the open side on the top plate strong enough or should it be enclosed? i picture making these out of 3/4 or 1" plate. i will also need the dimensions for the seal pusher and the contour of where it presses on the seal.


2010 Multistrada 1200s Touring black "no name yet"
2009 hypermotard 1100S black "Tard"
2009 CRF230L not black yet "Honda"
2008 FJR1300 black "Betty"
2005 CBR1000RR black "Monster"