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Gen1 Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) Replacement Lessons Learned


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#1 FJRBluesman

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 01:50 PM

After hearing about ionbeam and Radiohowie, I thought for a few $$ I'm going to replace my CCT. My 2005 has over 43K on it and I've suspected CC noise from the CCT being not so robust, for the $$ why not try it.

***EDIT***The engine is now much quieter, my hunch on the noise being the CCT was correct. I'm glad I changed it.

**EDIT** 5/14/11 Other issues I ran into this time around. The lower bolt did not work well with my ratchet wrench. I had to resort to my cut 8mm socket and wobble extension, that did the trick this time. I guess not every Feej is alike. It was real easy again and much quicker since I know what I’m doing. My old CCT was weaker in the resistance department. Glad I changed it. Also it is more quite again.

I ordered all my OEM parts from mrcycles.com CCT $71, gasket about $1.70.
Posted Image

There are many threads on CCT issues etc, I followed this CCT thread (page two has some great pix too) and wanted to add to it, like a CCT change for dummies. I did not have the same removal/installation luck as the others and did things slightly differently.

Some other Tools to have on hand:
1. Long (3-3/4 or longer) very thin narrow blade screw driver, for retracting CCT plunger.
2. 8mm box end ratcheting wrench (your new best friend).
3. Standard 8mm box end wrench.
4. Your 1/4 inch wobble extension or wobble 8mm socket.
5. Gum.
6. Pencil thick telescoping magnet (another new best friend).

Important Hints & Notes:
1) READ THIS FIRST! **Edit** 9-11-10 (thank you HaulinAshe)
Edit 5/14/11 NOTE:1a) I just did my second CCT removal/install (I bought another 2005 FJR this time with ABS). I did the same stuff as before except.. I took haulinasche's suggestion and secured the cam chain. I removed the stator cover and tied the cam chain across both front and rear so the chain was squeezed by the tie wrap above the crank sprocket, as close to center as I could. I also used a socket as shown in this thread by others as backup if the tie wrap let go. I can now see how it could move and possibly jump a tooth. With everything off and retracting the CCT I could see the slack coming. It still has quite a ways to go, but I guess it’s possible. I absolutely recommend doing this to help prevent any aggravation. The gasket for the stator cover was under $4, not much more time for peace of mind.
2) When you feed the 1/4 extension into the hole in the frame you'll have to put your socket on after the extension is inserted thru the hole. Try not to drop it in a nasty place. I used foil to cover areas I wanted stuff to stay out of. I did drop two bolts and two sockets into the frame hole. Easily retrieved them with my small telescoping magnet device you could get at any Kragen or Harbor Freight.
3) Make sure the ratcheting wrench has a very thin wall on the box end side. If there is too much meat on it, it'll interfere with the CCT. The one in the picture does work. Other brands maybe too thick. I did buy an aftermarket brand on ebay and it worked fine also. I made sure it was a thin ring on the box ends before I bought it, and confirmed on my old one that it fit. <b>DO NOT</b> use the ratchet wrench to initially break loose the bolt, you may break the ratcheting feature of the wrench. Use a standard box end first to break the bolts loose.

Remove this connector and feed the forward (engine) side down thru the frame and let it hang there.
Posted Image
There was no way in HELL the CCT was coming out the top without removing part or the whole throttle body, I tried. It did however, come out thru the bottom like a greased pig, no issues, after removing the idle screw and bracket.

Remove this bolt for the idle adjuster and move the cable and bracket forward on the tranny/engine, make sure you can still retrieve it.
Posted Image**EDIT** 2/4/12 Read posts #66, page 4. I'm posting this from my post #68, page 4. Thank you TomInCA!
Remove the clutch cover (the big silver thing my finger is on in the photo above) per Tom's post. Much easier access to the lower bolt. Easy peasy, about 10 bolts (I didn't count) and it came right off. Like Tom mentioned no oil came out at all, the clutch is not sitting in a bath of oil like the old days, it's only getting splashed with oil. That would explain sticky clutch plates and why they don't loosen up after just sitting.
NOTE: EXTREME CAUTION! With the clutch cover off, you also have direct access to the lower end connecting rod and crank. This area leads right down to the bottom of the engine case. If anything falls in, YOU’RE HOSED! :o :(
Make sure you cover the area with something so NOTHING falls in there,
we used foil, worked great. ;)


The new CCT comes with the bolt in the middle, and washer. The great thing is the CCT is already retracted and a cool little "T" like device is used as a lock to keep it that way. Let me tell you, excellent idea, made installation a breeze. I actuated the new CCT to feel the resistance, it was very good compared to mine. Mine was not bad but, it was not as good as the new one, I'd say it lost almost half (I'm guessing here) it's spring tension.
Posted Image

Make sure the CCT is installed with the arrow UP and the blue dot UP. The CCT gasket also has a tit on it that lines up with the arrow facing up. The gasket is not symmetrical.
Posted Image

I had a wobble extension and it did NOT work for me, what a PITA. I even modified it by cutting the 8mm socket in half to shorten it, no dice. The hole in the frame was too restrictive and I could not get it even close on the top and the bottom was closer but not good…I would say get this tool and you'll have no issues with funky tool modifying etc.


I used on the upper and lower bolt a trusty Craftsmen box end 8mm, BAM! Cracked it loose no issues. The top was easy once cracked and loosened it by fingers no sweat. I left the upper bolt in just after the crack loose, made sure it spun by hand, then let it be. The bottom I attacked it from the underside and I did get the little extension to partly work and it loosened it enough to get my fingers on it and that bolt came right out too. Leaving the upper bolt in (not tight, just a turn or so out) prevented the CCT from backing out and putting pressure on the lower bolt. I then went back up top and took out the upper bolt. I borrowed my neighbors Craftsmen ratcheting box end it was a dream for installing the lower bolt! Use it on removal too, it'll help huge.

I used gum (as mentioned from previous thread) to help keep the bolt in the middle of the CCT on the socket for removal and installation.
Posted Image

Turn the old CCT internal screw CW (clockwise) all the way and it should lock into that position, this will make it easier to remove the bolts by hand. Once the CCT is free, feed it out the bottom like the pictures show, easy.


This pix shows the CCT fully extended when removing.
Posted Image

Posted Image

Installation is just the reverse.

After CCT installation I pulled the little "T" holder with a long angled pair of needle nose pliers. I then used the screw driver to turn the internal screw CW to retract the plunger and feel the resistance to make sure the CCT extended, it did. If it doesn't extend, slightly turn it CCW to get it to extend (it could be locked closed), then retract it and do it again to make sure it's working.

Some other tricks I did are use Vaseline to keep gasket on CCT during installation.

Good luck, I hope this helps all ya'll who attempt it.
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#2 johnny80s

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 02:00 PM

Nice post Simon.
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#3 mattster31

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 05:38 PM

Nice write up there!!!! That's one job I do NOT look forward to doing, should I ever need too................knock on wood. headbonk.gif
It puts the lotion in the basket.............or it gets the hose.
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#4 Zorlac

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 05:49 PM

Thanks for documenting this.
Is the engine quieter now?
It makes sense when you don't think about it.

#5 RadioHowie

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Zorlac @ Apr 25 2009, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for documenting this.
Is the engine quieter now?


Hey, mine's dead quiet. rofl.gif
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#6 wfooshee

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 08:04 PM

Not for those last few seconds it wasn't. . . . .
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#7 mattster31

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 03:03 AM

QUOTE (wfooshee @ Apr 25 2009, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not for those last few seconds it wasn't. . . . .


Ouch................bad juju ph34r.gif . I hear bones rattling.........or is it a TC??
It puts the lotion in the basket.............or it gets the hose.
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#8 03HiYoSilver

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 07:19 AM

Bluesman,

Thanks for the excellent Photo Essay on this. You have embarrassed me with you photo skills.

I will archive this for future access since my CCT was just replaced under YES.


Again, Thanks for your efforts!

#9 Khunajawdge

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 08:00 AM

QUOTE (03HiYoSilver @ Apr 26 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bluesman, (some snipping)
Again, Thanks for your efforts!


Ditto! clapping.gif

I want to ask if the newer Gen 1 CCT was identical to the old one, or is there any perceivable difference in the overall design?

Someone said that there has been a part number change in the Parts data base for this part for Gen 1's?

Khunajawdge
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#10 FJRBluesman

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 09:09 AM

You are all welcome. That's why we're here, to help.

QUOTE (Zorlac @ Apr 25 2009, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for documenting this.
Is the engine quieter now?
I have only test rode it and yes it seemed more quiet, maybe it's me. The real test is I need to get it up to temp on a longer ride and see how it sounds, I'll do that tomorrow when I arrive at work.


QUOTE (RadioHowie @ Apr 25 2009, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey, mine's dead quiet. rofl.gif
That's sad.... But funny....


QUOTE (03HiYoSilver @ Apr 26 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bluesman,
Thanks for the excellent Photo Essay on this. You have embarrassed me with you photo skills.
I will archive this for future access since my CCT was just replaced under YES.
Again, Thanks for your efforts!
You're welcome glad others can get use form this.



QUOTE (Khunajawdge @ Apr 26 2009, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ditto! clapping.gif
I want to ask if the newer Gen 1 CCT was identical to the old one, or is there any perceivable difference in the overall design?
Someone said that there has been a part number change in the Parts data base for this part for Gen 1's?

I didn't see any external difference, they looked the same but I did not do a side by side thorough exam, I just wanted to get it done. Internally they could have done something different, maybe the spring has more winds, or beefier…. I could definitely tell the difference in tension. The new CCT if I let off slight pressure holding the plunger back, it moved. The old one I had to release my grip even more before the plunger would move.

Now that I've done this it's a lot easier and I could attck it better and quicker, plus I won’t be taking pix etc. It is in a tight spot, if you have short fat fingers, this will not be a fun job.
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#11 James Burleigh

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 11:42 AM

A little viagra in the tank will tension your cams right up.

Jb



#12 FJRBluesman

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 04:35 PM

QUOTE (Zorlac @ Apr 25 2009, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for documenting this.
Is the engine quieter now?
Yes! The engine is much quieter!!! My hunch was correct.

I can now hear other things rattling around. tongue.gif

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The Piston Return Spring.... Without it, the internal combustion engine would be nothing....

#13 Brodie

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 04:52 PM

QUOTE (FJRBluesman @ Apr 27 2009, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...The engine is much quieter!!! My hunch was correct.

I can now hear other things rattling around. tongue.gif



Thanks for the write up, I had mine out around 10k ago, you are right about the path to take for extraction. On the second gen. it's the same way - move the idle adjuster screw and thread it out under the frame member.

Due to the number of posts concerning this, and the relativly inexpensive cost, I'm going to buy one next month and put it in. You said the spring tension is stronger with the new unit, I will look for that on my '06.

clapping.gif Good Work!!

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#14 Patriot

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:41 PM

my '04 just turned 87k - friggin' morning noise warming up at idle while gearing up has gone away lately - jeesh

question, when do you just replace the CHAIN as well...I'm looking to have done a valve check; if it needs adjustment, I understand the cam(s) have to come out...would it be prudent to change the cam chain...or when do I have it done regardless.

Mike "confused and wringin' hands" in Nawlins'

PS - I have two extraneous goals for SFO
1) get expert advice with bike in front of experts on these issues
2) ride someone's AE; I love to try one out, even if just in a parking lot, or whatever you can stand with moi ridin' ya steed
wonder if my Gen II Feejer could be an AE !!!

oh,a ignore the local definition of expert - ex is a has been, and spert is a drip under pressure
bam zoom
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#15 RadioHowie

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE (Patriot @ Apr 27 2009, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
my '04 just turned 87k - friggin' morning noise warming up at idle while gearing up has gone away lately - jeesh

question, when do you just replace the CHAIN as well...I'm looking to have done a valve check; if it needs adjustment, I understand the cam(s) have to come out...would it be prudent to change the cam chain...or when do I have it done regardless.

Mike "confused and wringin' hands" in Nawlins'

PS - I have two extraneous goals for SFO
1) get expert advice with bike in front of experts on these issues
2) ride someone's AE; I love to try one out, even if just in a parking lot, or whatever you can stand with moi ridin' ya steed
wonder if my Gen II Feejer could be an AE !!!

oh,a ignore the local definition of expert - ex is a has been, and spert is a drip under pressure
bam zoom


Mike, the chain is only $23. Why would you NOT change it? Unless you pissed all yer money away on crawdads, tequila and fast wimmin'. smile.gif

(I got one with only 56k on it you can have)

The ONLY extra work to pull the chain out, assuming your cams are out for valve adjustment, is to pull the ignitor rotor off the end of the camshaft. I'd have to get a REAL good explanation from the shop if they charged more than a 1/4 hour for the extra work, considering everything else is already out.

Like the Nike ads said......"Just Do It!"

Edit: "ignitor rotor off the end of the CRANKshaft."

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#16 Patriot

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE (RadioHowie @ Apr 27 2009, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Patriot @ Apr 27 2009, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
my '04 just turned 87k - friggin' morning noise warming up at idle while gearing up has gone away lately - jeesh

question, when do you just replace the CHAIN as well...I'm looking to have done a valve check; if it needs adjustment, I understand the cam(s) have to come out...would it be prudent to change the cam chain...or when do I have it done regardless.

Mike "confused and wringin' hands" in Nawlins'

PS - I have two extraneous goals for SFO
1) get expert advice with bike in front of experts on these issues
2) ride someone's AE; I love to try one out, even if just in a parking lot, or whatever you can stand with moi ridin' ya steed
wonder if my Gen II Feejer could be an AE !!!

oh,a ignore the local definition of expert - ex is a has been, and spert is a drip under pressure
bam zoom


Mike, the chain is only $23. Why would you NOT change it? Unless you pissed all yer money away on crawdads, tequila and fast wimmin'. smile.gif

(I got one with only 56k on it you can have)

The ONLY extra work to pull the chain out, assuming your cams are out for valve adjustment, is to pull the ignitor rotor off the end of the camshaft. I'd have to get a REAL good explanation from the shop if they charged more than a 1/4 hour for the extra work, considering everything else is already out.

Like the Nike ads said......"Just Do It!"

thanx Howie
always comes through for us, "more fortunate"
btw, if someone dies and leaves me enough $$$ for a Gen II '07 fav color except my '04, you can have my '04 gratus to do what you wish; just sayin' clapping.gif
and I'm friggin' serious (might be a, ahhhhh, uncomfortable prayer request blink.gif )

Mike "wrenching is NOT second nature to moi" in Nawlins'
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#17 Patriot

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:10 PM

QUOTE (Patriot @ Apr 27 2009, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (RadioHowie @ Apr 27 2009, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Patriot @ Apr 27 2009, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
my '04 just turned 87k - friggin' morning noise warming up at idle while gearing up has gone away lately - jeesh

question, when do you just replace the CHAIN as well...I'm looking to have done a valve check; if it needs adjustment, I understand the cam(s) have to come out...would it be prudent to change the cam chain...or when do I have it done regardless.

Mike "confused and wringin' hands" in Nawlins'

PS - I have two extraneous goals for SFO
1) get expert advice with bike in front of experts on these issues
2) ride someone's AE; I love to try one out, even if just in a parking lot, or whatever you can stand with moi ridin' ya steed
wonder if my Gen II Feejer could be an AE !!!

oh,a ignore the local definition of expert - ex is a has been, and spert is a drip under pressure
bam zoom


Mike, the chain is only $23. Why would you NOT change it? Unless you pissed all yer money away on crawdads, tequila and fast wimmin'. smile.gif

(I got one with only 56k on it you can have)

The ONLY extra work to pull the chain out, assuming your cams are out for valve adjustment, is to pull the ignitor rotor off the end of the camshaft. I'd have to get a REAL good explanation from the shop if they charged more than a 1/4 hour for the extra work, considering everything else is already out.

Like the Nike ads said......"Just Do It!"

thanx Howie
always comes through for us, "more fortunate"
btw, if someone dies and leaves me enough $$$ for a Gen II '07 fav color except my '04, you can have my '04 gratus to do what you wish; just sayin' clapping.gif
and I'm friggin' serious (might be a, ahhhhh, uncomfortable prayer request blink.gif )

Mike "wrenching is NOT second nature to moi" in Nawlins'

BTW, is it a given and NOT advisable to purchase all the parts mail order and only want the local shop to charge me labor when I hand them the parts (less shims, if needed). I guess that would be penny anny and insulting to them and not, if any, save me any $$$ or enough to make it my wild...

my motivation is to expedite the job and not wait on them ordering and getting in parts.

any comment ???
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IBA# 42430 . my pics - FLICKR CLICKY HERE and New Orleans Ride Captain; Patriot Guard Riders; www.patriotguard.org
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#18 FJRBluesman

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE (Patriot @ Apr 27 2009, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BTW, is it a given and NOT advisable to purchase all the parts mail order and only want the local shop to charge me labor when I hand them the parts (less shims, if needed). I guess that would be penny anny and insulting to them and not, if any, save me any $$$ or enough to make it my wild...

my motivation is to expedite the job and not wait on them ordering and getting in parts.

any comment ???
Yes - Not for sure on them honoring any part warranty, but....

I do know they will install the parts you hand them and they will note on the receipt, "Parts supplied by customer". That being said they may not honor any part failure even though OEM etc. If they dealer puts in the part and it fails, they will stand behind it. YMMV.
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The Piston Return Spring.... Without it, the internal combustion engine would be nothing....

#19 RadioHowie

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:25 PM

QUOTE (Patriot @ Apr 27 2009, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BTW, is it a given and NOT advisable to purchase all the parts mail order and only want the local shop to charge me labor when I hand them the parts (less shims, if needed). I guess that would be penny anny and insulting to them and not, if any, save me any $$$ or enough to make it my wild...

my motivation is to expedite the job and not wait on them ordering and getting in parts.

any comment ???


Hell, I've never passed up a reason to comment. smile.gif

I'd talk it over with the Service Manager. Some might appreciate not having to order a box full of parts. Others might be pissed at missing a chance for some parts mark-up.

Lessee, you'd need a set of O-rings for the coolant pipe...the two into the cam cover and the one larger one for the thermostat...the cam chain...at 87K miles, I'd replace the cam cover gasket, jes 'cause...fresh coolant to replace what's dumped removing the coolant pipe (may as well put in fresh)...a new set of plugs, if yours are over 10k miles...that's about it, not counting the shims. Not really a big parts list. Fresh Rotella while it's in the shop?

Anyway, it doesn't hurt to ask.



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#20 Patriot

Patriot

    Isabella is Lazarus

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE (RadioHowie @ Apr 27 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Patriot @ Apr 27 2009, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BTW, is it a given and NOT advisable to purchase all the parts mail order and only want the local shop to charge me labor when I hand them the parts (less shims, if needed). I guess that would be penny anny and insulting to them and not, if any, save me any $$$ or enough to make it my wild...

my motivation is to expedite the job and not wait on them ordering and getting in parts.

any comment ???


Hell, I've never passed up a reason to comment. smile.gif

I'd talk it over with the Service Manager. Some might appreciate not having to order a box full of parts. Others might be pissed at missing a chance for some parts mark-up.

Lessee, you'd need a set of O-rings for the coolant pipe...the two into the cam cover and the one larger one for the thermostat...the cam chain...at 87K miles, I'd replace the cam cover gasket, jes 'cause...fresh coolant to replace what's dumped removing the coolant pipe (may as well put in fresh)...a new set of plugs, if yours are over 10k miles...that's about it, not counting the shims. Not really a big parts list. Fresh Rotella while it's in the shop?

Anyway, it doesn't hurt to ask.


fresh Rotella in it now, but I'll give 'em a gallon plus a quart if they have to drain the oil to do the work
I like Coolenol, so I'd bring the stuff, as well. Plugs are fresh Iridiums.
If they'd give me an appt with their provided parts ready in hand, that'd be fine with me with reasonable $$$ per hour rate ($85 or less ?) and reasonable markup - I'd ask for a written estimate of the work with what if's.

I'd also tell them NOT to do anything else, like a TBS (unless that's a good idea after the work even though I had one like 5k miles ago) and NOT to replace the final drive oil or whatever like some shops that do a "service" (all fluids, plugs, filters, etc).

Maybe I should throw out the possibility of a "clinic" at SFO ??? yahoo.gif

Thanx again
Mike

Mike in Nawlins' ..... 2004.5 FJR 1300 Silver Bullet "Isabella" in Nawlins' ..... Darksider #53
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