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Superbright LEDs Replacement of Tail/Brake Lights


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#1 Ignacio

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:33 PM

This is a review of a Superbrightleds.com 1157-R19W6 LED replacement for the stock 1157 two filament bulb. They light our tail marker lights that are on all the time and brake lights when we grab the binders.



My Reasons To Switch
The main reason I wanted to switch is because I'm one of those Iron Butt loonies with a fuel cell and beefed up sub frame...and replacing a burned out bulb in the tail is a genuine PITA for me. Even running the "long life" bulbs supposedly rated at 10,000 hours...they don't seem to last close to that. I've had to replace them several times now in parking lots right before rallies and it sucks!. With a 50,000 hour rating of the LEDs I'm hoping for longer life at least.
1157 rated hours 1200/5000
1157 LL 2000/10,000 hours
LED 50,000 hours
One thing I'd rather not sacrifice is braking conspiciousness. I know enough of LEDs that the ratings and methods to calculate are very different and what they promote on websites doesn't match expectations. I could throw milacandela ratings and attempt to convert to lumens, but pictures later are probably more telling.

Another LED advantage is you might save a few watts and that's always good for us Gen 1 owners. BY my calculations the tail light loop uses about 17 watts in the stock pair and about .14 watts for the LED.....so 17 watts is a small gain.
1157 and 1157 LL 8.5/27 watts
LED .07/.11 (50/75 mA @ 14v)
Another thing I didn't realize, but these bulbs also illuminate the license plate. If one looks closely at the bottom of the reflector you see windows that let some of the white light down onto the plate. Using a regular backward-projecting LED wouldn't aim any light down this direction. By the way...I suggest cleaning it occasionally....it is grungy!



So, I had done enough homework to drop $32 after shipping for a pair of the bulbs. Superbrightleds.com even had a model specially designed to mimic an 1157 with 19 backward facing elements and 6 LED elements aimed towards the plate.



I Got Mail!
They came standard mail in a few days and looked well engineered at closer inspection. Another thing to note is that the width of this bulb is 25mm...the same as a stock 1157. Many LED replacement lights are larger than the hole in the reflector and won't fit. So, if you think about a different 1157 replacement don't go more than 19 LEDs on the face or much over 25mm.



The Pictures
For the shots that follow the left is stock and right is LED. I replaced the right bulb and took this series of shots. Unless noted, for consistency each is f4.5 at ISO-100 for 1/10 second on an Olympus E-500 dSLR.

Tail lights on, no brakes.
The LED bulb (right) illuminates the rearward LEDs to 50mA....which seems about the same as the stock bulb in intensity. The reflector is "filled" about the same level.


Oblique view with just the tail lights on....again they look about the same.



Hitting the Brakes
With the addition of brake lights the LED adds 25mA to the output for a total of 75mA (50% increase) while the standard goes from 8.5 watts 27 (300+% increase). The difference in reflector fill and overall luminosity is much more noticeable. The left is from the bulb filament that is being redirected backwards by the reflector where the LED is coming more directly from the 19 LEDs.

I think this is the reason the bulb is more obvious as a shape behind the plastic. It looks blingly cool, but I suspect it's not as noticeable in an emergency situation by traffic behind you.


At an oblique angle the intensity is more similar. This surprised me a little bit, but I think the reflector is biased to focus backwards...which makes sense since you are less concerned with traffic at oblique angles than the car right behind you.



Fleeing The Scene
I took another picture with the garage lights out and no brakes (f4.5 ISO-100 1/4 second). License plate illumination.....if you're into that sort of thing....is slightly better and whiter with the LED.



Hiccup!
When I replaced the second bulb with an LED I had a system hiccup. My Hyperlites started flashing even when I didn't press the brake. Doh! But after a weekend of pondering, forum suggestions, and even popping a fuse (it's the "fan" circuit BTW)...I found I had installed the Hyperlites last year incorrectly. Once I read Hyperlites troubleshooting suggestions and swapped two lead wire the LEDs worked fine together.


Final Analysis
The 19 LED rearward facing and 6 side facing output in low-level tail light mode is comparable to the 8.5 watts of a regular bulb. People are going to be able to see the tail of the FJR fine cruising at night. Call it a push.

But if you stand on the brakes those 19 LEDs...even in high-level output mode....they just aren't as good as a set of conventional filament blasting out 50+ watts of photons to the Suburban that may be behind you. You can mitigate this with a supplementary set of Hyperlites and blink your way to conspicuousness, but if you're thinking of swapping just the existing bulbs....I'd think long and hard about LEDs.

I'm personally going to stick with LEDs because I DO have Hyperlites and really hate tearing the tail off my bike every other year to replace a burned out bulb.


Other Bulbs
I didn't consider replacing the outboard turn signal 1156 bulbs. The turn signal bulbs are bright like the brake lights and I would worry they wouldn't be as bright as stock bulbs. That and turn signals work off a flasher so LEDs would change the blink rate drastically. Finally, turn signal bulbs rarely burn out anyway because they're not on very often. I've never lost one before.....and same deal for potential watt savings because they're rarely on.

I didn't consider the front marker/turn 7443 wedge bulbs in the fairing. Besides being easy to change the blink rate would likely be an issue to. Watt savings would be a very small issue because they use 5 watts each in cruise mode.

After I posted this review somebody brought up alternative bulbs for the 1157 that potentially include a higher wattage brake filament. The 7443 appears to have a 40 watt rating and lower life than the supposed 32 of the 1157 so I went to Napa and bought a pair. Pictures didn't show any difference though and when I ran an ohm reading on 1157 and 7443 I got .6 ohms on both. Maybe the 7443 has become Americanized...I dunno.

Left is 1157 and right is 2357. f4.5 at ISO-100 for 1/10 second. I couldn't tell any difference.

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#2 wfooshee

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 07:19 AM

Thanks for the review. Confirms to me what I've always thought about LED replacement bulbs. They just don't fill the reflector since they project light to the rear only.

I had someone ask, "Well, why do they use LEDs for brake lights on cars, then?" Those lights aren't simple bulb replacements, still trying to use a reflector. OEM LED brake lights are large panels of LEDs, not a small source trying to fill a large lamp.

Now, if someone came up with something like that, I'd be interested. Replace the lens, not the bulb, with a panel full of LEDs, some for tail, the rest for brake.

Your off-axis pictures surprised me, though. Most LED systems I've seen are absolute crap except immediately in line with the LED lens.
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#3 RadioHowie

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 07:55 AM

Bravo!

Great write up, Iggy. Guess I'll stick with the 1156/57 combo for now. I don't have all that chit to remove that you do.

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#4 SkooterG

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:53 AM

Excellent presentation. I would have loved the watts savings, but your brake light demonstration sealed the deal for me. No LEDs anytime soon.

Too bad they don't work better.
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#5 Ignacio

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE (SkooterG @ Jan 18 2010, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Too bad they don't work better.

I was a bit disappointed too, but I'm glad I bothered to set my camera to manually shoot identical exposures from the same angle and zoom. If I were to just look at the lights in the garage....I didn't notice an intensity difference. I'll likely be supplementing the results with some real world observations...maybe I can flash my brakes as I pass you in Nevada some time and you can decide for yourself how good they really are. wink.gif
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#6 SkooterG

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 18 2010, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...maybe I can flash my brakes as I pass you in Nevada some time and you can decide for yourself how good they really are. wink.gif

You? Pass me? IN NEVADA????

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#7 dcarver

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 18 2010, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (SkooterG @ Jan 18 2010, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Too bad they don't work better.

I'll likely be supplementing the results with some real world observations...maybe I can flash my brakes as I pass you in Nevada some time and you can decide for yourself how good they really are. wink.gif
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#8 charismaticmegafauna

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE (dcarver @ Jan 18 2010, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 18 2010, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (SkooterG @ Jan 18 2010, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Too bad they don't work better.

I'll likely be supplementing the results with some real world observations...maybe I can flash my brakes as I pass you in Nevada some time and you can decide for yourself how good they really are. wink.gif
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Seriously..., I've been told (a couple times) that my tail lights/rear turn signals aren't very bright (by those I've passed in NV... smile.gif ).
I'd like more lumens (or, better tail/stop light performance) and less watts -- looks-like that's not happening (yet...)?
(longer life seems to be the primary LED benefit, here?)
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#9 HaulinAshe

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:43 AM

Great documentation Iggy. Thanks for taking the time.

I actually switched the tail to 2057 bulbs instead of 1157, in hopes of getting MORE light output. Guess us Gen-II owners are watt-spoiled. LEDs would have been nice, but your testing sealed my decision to stick with incandescent.

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#10 Ignacio

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE (HaulinAshe @ Jan 18 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great documentation Iggy. Thanks for taking the time.

I actually switched the tail to 2057 bulbs instead of 1157, in hopes of getting MORE light output. Guess us Gen-II owners are watt-spoiled. LEDs would have been nice, but your testing sealed my decision to stick with incandescent.

Your alternate model number led me into some other discussions.

Are you sure about the 2057? I thought the specs were almost identical with an 1157.

I thought it was the 2357 that has a higher wattage for the brake filament. That one does seem interesting as an option even for Gen 1 as it retains the same running filament draw, but bumps up brake light wattage.
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#11 SkooterG

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 02:02 PM

Once upon a time, radman provided some good bulb info.

Post #3 in this thread
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#12 Ignacio

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (SkooterG @ Jan 18 2010, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Once upon a time, radman provided some good bulb info.

Post #3 in this thread

Hey URL Gimpy! That's what I was referring to when I made the specs link. Even made it automagically go to #3. My kung fu is stronger. wink.gif

Since I still have the ass torn open on the bike I'm tempted to go buy a set of 2357 bulbs from Napa and add to this little comparo....and then sell the bulbs at a mark-up to an unsuspecting Arizonan with a "Ewe-ro-peein'" bulb markup. smile.gif
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#13 johnny80s

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 08:23 PM

Thanks Iggy.
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#14 Ignacio

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:19 AM

QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 18 2010, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Since I still have the ass torn open on the bike I'm tempted to go buy a set of 2357 bulbs from Napa and add to this little comparo....and then sell the bulbs at a mark-up to an unsuspecting Arizonan with a "Ewe-ro-peein'" bulb markup. smile.gif

I couldn't help myself and spent 4 bucks on a set of 2357 bulbs last night from Napa thinking the brake filament would be 40 lumens vs. a 1157 at 32 lumens....but it wasn't.

I added a picture and review at the end of the OP.
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#15 SkooterG

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:58 AM

What happend to Patriot's post about the LED panel manufacturer? Was that in another thread?
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FJR#1 - The 'Dirty Ol Whore' - 2004 non-abs - RIP @ 226,400 - Gone, but not forgotton.
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#16 Ignacio

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:01 AM

QUOTE (SkooterG @ Jan 19 2010, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What happend to Patriot's post about the LED panel manufacturer? Was that in another thread?

Go here. This thread is about Superbright LEDs.
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#17 wfooshee

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:31 AM

QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 19 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I added a picture and review at the end of the OP.


That would be the ones you called 7443 up there?

Since you're an admin and all, you can fix it and delete my post, and nobody will ever know. . . . cool.gif
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#18 Ignacio

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:34 AM

QUOTE (wfooshee @ Jan 19 2010, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 19 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I added a picture and review at the end of the OP.


That would be the ones you called 7443 up there?

Since you're an admin and all, you can fix it and delete my post, and nobody will ever know. . . . cool.gif

I think I've confused myself now. I'll have to go home and check tonight. It's one of the two.
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#19 bmwhd

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE (wfooshee @ Jan 18 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the review. Confirms to me what I've always thought about LED replacement bulbs. They just don't fill the reflector since they project light to the rear only.

I had someone ask, "Well, why do they use LEDs for brake lights on cars, then?" Those lights aren't simple bulb replacements, still trying to use a reflector. OEM LED brake lights are large panels of LEDs, not a small source trying to fill a large lamp.

Now, if someone came up with something like that, I'd be interested. Replace the lens, not the bulb, with a panel full of LEDs, some for tail, the rest for brake.

Your off-axis pictures surprised me, though. Most LED systems I've seen are absolute crap except immediately in line with the LED lens.


My experience too. I've have full LED replacement arrays for a couple of bikes (KLR, BMW R80) that work really well. The one on my R80 hurts my eyes in fact which is fine by me. It's from Motoelekt and is similar to the Brake! brand unit I had on my KLR.



These don't depend on the OEM reflector and fill the entire housing but are more expensive. I wish Brake! would make a pair for the FJR as theirs include the flashing element too.



EDIT - Sorry, didn't see this Same idea.



FWIW, I'm very happy with the Kisan tailBlazer replacement bulbs. The 20w halogen bulbs have held up really well and put out plenty of light.
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#20 Ignacio

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:40 PM

QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 19 2010, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (wfooshee @ Jan 19 2010, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Ignacio @ Jan 19 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I added a picture and review at the end of the OP.


That would be the ones you called 7443 up there?

Since you're an admin and all, you can fix it and delete my post, and nobody will ever know. . . . cool.gif

I think I've confused myself now. I'll have to go home and check tonight. It's one of the two.

2357.

Yep, 2357.

Reading the box.....2.....3....5.....7.

Ignore my 7443. That would not the bulb that's the rear brake light.

Fixed OP.
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