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FJRF009.0: Ground Spider Research


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#1 bramfrank

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 05:13 PM

ADMIN NOTE: Superseded by actual U.S. Recall here.

Link for Americans at the end of this post.

Edit: May 30, 2010
Important note for CANADIANS.
Since my ride has finally been bitten by the spider bug I looked up the reporting mechanisms available to us here in Canada. Canadians can file a report on line HERE or you can call Transport Canada at 1-800-333-0510 and do it by phone.


Edit: December 24, 2009

Consider the potential consequences of a spontaneous engine shutdown while in high speed traffic.

Consider the consequences of a complete lighting failure while negotiating a remote twisting road 'at speed', late at night.

Consider what would happen if this happened while you were passing someone on a 2 lane highway and there was oncoming traffic you couldn't avoid as a result.

Consider the potential fire hazard resulting from the overheated wiring.

Does someone need to die before this gets forcibly resolved?

Enough already.

SOMEONE has to step up and take this to the authorities - over a hundred reportedly affected bikes and this is a serious issue with life-threatening implications. I'd do it myself if I was in the USA, but I'm not, so . . . SOMEONE? ANYONE?

Merry Christmas

IF YOU HAVE AN AFFECTED MACHINE, PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND YOUR MACHINE (LAST 6 DIGITS OF THE VIN) IN A POST BELOW. THEY'LL NEED THE INFORMATION IF A COMPLAINT IS FILED WITH THE NHTSA.

OK.

So maybe it is time to start trying to characterise the burned ground issue with the Gen-II bikes

The above poll is ONLY for those people who have suffered the problem.

Feel free to post your thoughts and experiences below. It may be an idea to post your VIN to build a database of affected units.

For example (because the poll is limited in terms of how many questions I could ask) . . . . Are 'World' bikes impacted? Have any Euro or Aussie bikes exhibited the symptoms?

Does your bike have heated grips? I suspect that factory grips could possibly be a trigger - they are connected near to the most seriously impacted connection.



So much for the survey - now it is time to act. Click the link to file your complaint with the NHTSA.

BE CERTAIN YOU SPECIFY THAT THERE WAS A FAILURE OF AN ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR IN THE WIRING HARNESS DUE TO OVERHEATING & THAT IT CAUSED THE LIGHTING AND ENGINE TO SPONTANEOUSLY SHUT DOWN.

Someone WILL get hurt if this doesn't get resolved, if only because they drop their bike on themselves when the problem occurs, but it can be a lot worse. And if someone is killed, you can be certain that they'll never figure out that it was due to a grounding problem because bike accidents aren't investigated the way plane crashes are.

We have to protect ourselves.

AMERICANS:

Please get out and file at www.safercar.gov or call 1-888-327-4236 (8:00AM to 10:00PM Monday-Friday)

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#2 Shane Stump

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 05:28 PM

I just voted!

I won't reiterate my woes as anyone reading the Technical & Mechanical Problems section already knows my FJR story blink.gif blink.gif!

It will be interesting to see the results of this poll over time as Yamaha seems to have always indicated to me that I was the ONLY AE owner having mysterious electrical problems!


Best regards,

Shane
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#3 huchieglide

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 07:39 PM

I voted. Some other info on my bike.
I had a little over 22,000 miles on my bike when the ground module melted leaving me 90 miles from home. Not sure what is considered high miles so I voted low humidity/low miles. That said I have been out in some day long rain. But bike is stored indoors.
I have put 2500 miles on bike with the new harness without problem.
The ignition switch was swapped out on the recall within 100 miles of problem devloping. My original ignition switch never gave me any problems, but I had it changed out hoping to avoid future problems.
Last 4 of vin are 0986.
The day my bike went down I was not running my heated gear. In contrast to Shane, my dealer never questioned my fuse box or farkles and actually commented on the "clean" install.
Hope this info helps. I wonder if Yamaha has improved the design of the harness. I did not see my old one when it came out of the bike. Would like to see the old and the new layed side by side. I also wonder if this deteriorated over time or did something on that day cause the meltdown. hmmmmm.


WFO 5, WFO 6


#4 El Cajone

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 08:03 PM

Completed the survey. My bike is at the dealers right now trying to sort out the grounding issue. I'm getting the usual set of crazy syptoms; engine cutting out and screwed up pinball machine for an instrument panel. They called me back today saying that it's not that suspicious grounding cluster on the left side in front of the gas tank so they are going to dig further into the wiring harness. We'll see.

I have the Canadian '07 1300A model which comes with factory installed heated grips. Other than that, I don't have any electrical farkles installed. The last six digits of my VIN are 000349. Only about 12000 mi. on the bike.

Illegitimus Non Carborundum
(Don't Let the Bastards Grind You Down)

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#5 Scout

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 11:41 AM

I haven't been stranded yet on my 2007, but have noticed some electrical issues. I had the ignition switch replaced this spring probably a thousand miles ago. I had the main computer recall done last year. I have 11k miles on the bike, never ride in the rain and have no electrical accessories added.

First event; while downshifting and rolling through a slow intersection the bike just died. It seemed to die just as I pulled the clutch. It surprised me since I know I didn't bog the motor or anything, so I hit the starter switch while I kept the clutch pulled and the bike started right up and away I went. The bike was fairly cold about 1 mile from home on a cold startup. I had just washed the bike that afternoon so water may have gotten in somewhere...

Second event; on a cold start-up in the driveway at home, I turned the key, watched the dials sweep then hit the starter button. Sounded like the starter engaged but didn't crank. I let up on the starter button, the gages did ANOTHER sweep, I again pushed the starter button and it started and ran normally.

Third event; on a warm start, the bike started and ran normally, but the LCD panel blinked off for an instant right after engine start. I've never seen that before.

I've been reading about the ground issues under the tank and will remove and inspect those tomorrow... I'll let everyone know what I find. Does this sound like a different issue to anybody?

Update - I pulled the tank and the ground blocks look fine. No visible signs of corrosion or heating/melting. That front one is kinda hard to get to so I didn't try to undo it, but left well enough alone. I cleaned the battery terminals and put her back together. All seems well... for now.

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#6 FJRGuy

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 12:07 PM

I started to reply to the poll but I think my "grounding issues" are different then what you are talking about. I think my '07A has a 'leak' to ground somewhere as my battery will sometimes die off in the garage in as little as a day. It is intermittent though as sometime it'll go a week unused without a noticable loss (of course my bike does sit that long now that the summer weather has hit this part of the world.)
I am correct in that your "grounding issues" are something different, right?
Jeff

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#7 bramfrank

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 02:34 PM

QUOTE (FJRGuy @ Jul 4 2009, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I started to reply to the poll but I think my "grounding issues" are different then what you are talking about. I think my '07A has a 'leak' to ground somewhere as my battery will sometimes die off in the garage in as little as a day. It is intermittent though as sometime it'll go a week unused without a noticable loss (of course my bike does sit that long now that the summer weather has hit this part of the world.)
I am correct in that your "grounding issues" are something different, right?


It is very different. Respondents should have had their machines diagnosed by a dealer (or have determined that the grounding block on the left side under the tank is fried).

My bike will sit through up to 12 weeks during the winter with the battery connected and just start up on a press of the starter.

Take out your sensitive current meter and see what is being drawn after the current draw settles down . . . . it should be less than a couple of milliamps. 50 or more milliamps and you get to go looking for the problem.

However your issue sounds like it could be as simple as that it is just time for a new battery. I'd personally buy a quality replacement as the least expensive place to start looking.

That we have 17 reports of the issue is very disconcerting . . . . is iit time yet for someone to escalate the matter to Yamaha or to the NHTSA?
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#8 El Cajone

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 04:50 PM

I got my bike back from the dealers yesterday and everything is running fine. Just got back from a ride up to Squamish and back to check it out.

I took it into the dealer (North Shore Suzuki Yamaha) earlier in the week with what seems to be the typical problem set for this grounding issue; intermittent engine cutouts in combination with instrument panel/signal light interrupts. My problem has been around for awhile but it reached a head when I rode all the way back to Vancouver from CFR with no instruments and maybe 50 engine cutouts.

When I went in to the dealer, I took some excerpts from the following thread and showed them the suspect grounding connector (there are pictures of the problem connector in this thread):

http://www.fjrforum....s...2&hl=ground

To get access to the little bugger, the mechanic pulled off the gas tank, heat protector, Panel A and the left side cowling. Before the mechanic put the bike back together, I asked him to pull apart all the exposed connectors and stuff some dielectric grease in them.

An unexpected benefit is that some other things work better now; the heated grips really sizzle, the immobilizer light flashes like a lighthouse beacon and the glove compartment lid actually pops open on the first try. I think the grounding problem was bleeding away enough current that other electical items on the bike were not getting quite enough juice.

There are several ground wires going into this connector, including one from the instrument panel and one from the fuel pump, and one wire going "out" to final ground somewhere. That's why you end up with a bizarre set of problems when this one little connector gets corrupted. My connector looked fine from the outside; the problems were hidden inside.

My summation is that if you are getting engine cutouts in combination with any other electrical issues, then get this problem connector checked out first before you do anything else.

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(Don't Let the Bastards Grind You Down)

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#9 Shane Stump

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 05:15 PM

QUOTE (bramfrank @ Jul 4 2009, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (FJRGuy @ Jul 4 2009, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I started to reply to the poll but I think my "grounding issues" are different then what you are talking about. I think my '07A has a 'leak' to ground somewhere as my battery will sometimes die off in the garage in as little as a day. It is intermittent though as sometime it'll go a week unused without a noticable loss (of course my bike does sit that long now that the summer weather has hit this part of the world.)
I am correct in that your "grounding issues" are something different, right?


It is very different. Respondents should have had their machines diagnosed by a dealer (or have determined that the grounding block on the left side under the tank is fried).

My bike will sit through up to 12 weeks during the winter with the battery connected and just start up on a press of the starter.

Take out your sensitive current meter and see what is being drawn after the current draw settles down . . . . it should be less than a couple of milliamps. 50 or more milliamps and you get to go looking for the problem.

However your issue sounds like it could be as simple as that it is just time for a new battery. I'd personally buy a quality replacement as the least expensive place to start looking.

That we have 17 reports of the issue is very disconcerting . . . . is iit time yet for someone to escalate the matter to Yamaha or to the NHTSA?


You are absolutely right it will have to be raised to the NHTSA - Yamaha isn't going to do the right thing... I figure some day I will get a class-action law-suit letter telling me that I am entitled to $100 off my next Yamaha purchase yahoo.gif dribble.gif dribble.gif dribble.gif!

Hopefully it gets cleared up so no one has to spend 6 months going around and around with Yamaha!

Best Regards,

Shane
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#10 Silent

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 07:15 PM

It appears that my rig is affected as well. I dug into it this evening and with the info from the form found the connector.

The cap is melted thru on the top, and bubbling on the side


You can see the corrosion under the connector cap.


My bike is an '07 with 35k miles. I ride 4 seasons, and commute with my FJR. The ignition switch was replaced back at the beginning of the recall. Same with the ECU.

My farkles include Hella FF50's, Honda heated grips, Heated Gear, GPS, FRS, and Radar detector. All wired thru a Blue Sea fuse block that is wired direct to the battery. The FF50's are triggered off the high beam circuit.

Damn, I didn't want yet another recall blink.gif blink.gif
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#11 ahchiu

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 08:00 AM

I'm going to check my grounding block, just to make sure, I thought my stumbling problems has been fixe after I found a loose ground wire to my Power Commander. I will post if it's bad.

Thank,

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#12 ShinyPartsUp

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:18 PM

I have a 2006A with 25K miles. Live in humid/wet conditions. Brodie ignition switch installed with second ignition Switch prior to that recall. Dash replaced in that recall. Harness with relay to the battery powers freeway blaster horns. I was running Honda heated grips off the Yamaha harness but that was changed to the bluesea fuseblock today. Powerlet runs to the battery. All other farkles (XM radio, GPS, heated vest) run off the bluesea. The second ignition switch (older design) was switched out in a preventative move today to the newer design ignition switch. Brodie harness still in place.

NO GROUNDING ISSUES AND NO CORROSION FOUND TODAY, INCLUDING THE UPPER LEFT GROUND

I did not fill out the survey but thought I would add to the total database. My condolences to those less lucky.
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#13 bramfrank

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 01:33 PM

QUOTE (ShinyPartsUp @ Jul 24 2009, 02:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a 2006A with 25K miles. Live in humid/wet conditions. Brodie ignition switch installed with second ignition Switch prior to that recall. Dash replaced in that recall. Harness with relay to the battery powers freeway blaster horns. I was running Honda heated grips off the Yamaha harness but that was changed to the bluesea fuseblock today. Powerlet runs to the battery. All other farkles (XM radio, GPS, heated vest) run off the bluesea. The second ignition switch (older design) was switched out in a preventative move today to the newer design ignition switch. Brodie harness still in place.

NO GROUNDING ISSUES AND NO CORROSION FOUND TODAY, INCLUDING THE UPPER LEFT GROUND

I did not fill out the survey but thought I would add to the total database. My condolences to those less lucky.


Thanks for the comment, and for not filling in the survey - because the idea behind the survey is to try and characterise affected machines.

With 35 entries to date there is no specific trend evolving except for the fact that the majority of machines seem to be 'A" models and have low mileage (which is just weird and not quite what I'd have expected).

35 Gen-II machines suffering and reported HERE implies a LOT more affected in the field. I am not the one to take this to the NHTSA because I am in Canada, but it does have to be registered officially.

Who would do this?
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#14 Road Runner III

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 06:23 PM

I had this issue, left me on the side of the road 3 times started carring tools so Icould get her running and home untill I figured out a fix. When it happened it was HOT outside and the fans were on. I fixed her and have not had an issue since I do not even carry the tools with me anymore. I do have factory heated grips and used heated gear but it's wired directly to the battery. My fix is listed in another thread but I will list it again here if you need it.


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#15 S76

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 07:26 PM

Another victum.
06A. 50,000 miles. No heated grips. No power draws on the bike wiring except a Zumo, Autocom, and a Datel. Basically nothing. Edit to add: S/N 610

Early this year the bike would stumble when I used the turn signals. I happened across the original post of this problem the same day. I took the connector apart and found one corner burnt. Took out the grounding spider and cleaned it all up and reassembled. The bike was fine for about 10K miles. Then it sat in a humid garage for 3 weeks. (It has done nothing but rain in New England this summer.) Bike would not start. When the key was turned to on I had no running lights, yet both turn signal indicators were on. No brake lights, no glove box, no cigarette lighter, no windshield, no fuel pump, high beam indicator was on even though of course the headlights were not, and the instrument panel was buzzing. Fuel quantity gauge was flashing 8 flashes, then a pause, then 8 flashes and continued. Engine would not crank. I also did not hear the usual relay clunk noise that comes from the left side of the instrument panel when the key is turned on.

I started to disassemble the bike to go after this suspect terminal ground junction but before I could get there it started to work correctly. I cycled the key about 20 times and it worked fine. I then though it may have just been a relay that was hung up. So, I headed out for a 300 mile ride. At our second pit stop the problem reoccurred and we were prisoners at a Dunkin Doughnuts. Could have been worse. We pulled the tank and all, cleaned the ground block that is the subject of this post and all was fine for the rest of the day. 1 hour delay.

I intend to unplug that harness so I can get it out far enough to work on it. Cut off that piece of shit connector. Solder all those wires together and add another wire to chassis ground. I usually way over maintain my bike just so I donít get stuck on the road. But this one slipped past me and it pissed me off.

mad.gif
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#16 Silent

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 07:52 PM

Basically the same thing I did to correct mine. I soldered a wire to the top of the 'spider' and ran it back to the ground on my BlueSea (basically B- ) and applied dielectric grease. Not one problem since.
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#17 S76

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 07:46 AM

QUOTE (Silent @ Aug 2 2009, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Basically the same thing I did to correct mine. I soldered a wire to the top of the 'spider' and ran it back to the ground on my BlueSea (basically B- ) and applied dielectric grease. Not one problem since.


That sounds like a good fix, and easier too. When I originally cleaned mine, one pin of the 6 had minor signs of heat. Obviously that one pin is the one to chassis ground. The heat on that pin was no doubt created by inadequate electrical contact area due to the fact that 5 other component grounds are feeding through that one pin to the chassis. But now that mine has already shown heat distress, and the fact that it failed twice I would just rather remove the whole thing. By soldering them together and adding a ground wire it will have 2 ground paths to the chassis ground.

Hey, if a little does a little good.........
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#18 Fingerflicker

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 06:38 PM

Model: '06 AE
Vin: 0092
Problem occured at 25K miles

Fortunatley I was close to home on my way from work when the grounding block fried, the tow truck fee was not too bad. Checked the symtoms out on this forum and was able to get it running in 45 minutes. My symptoms before were the bike would cut in/out like it was misfiring. I originally thought it was an alternater problem because my dash and high beam lights would flash on/off. I commute daily rain or shine. mad.gif
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#19 Jeff Q

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 06:52 PM

Crap sorry Why no question for issues or no. I did not read till after i took. Sorry NO issues here

12 Concours 14

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#20 SAHIII

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 10:45 AM

S76,
Had the same problem hit me yesterday....lifted up the tank and what do you know??? ground harness fried....great post!!!
Thanks to the forum, I saved (i'm sure) hundreds of $$$$. Keep it up!!!!