Clutch Adjustment

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birkdale10

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I have read all I could about other people's problems with clutches, but I haven't seen exactly my problem, so I will start a new discussion, with enough info (I hope) and a couple of questions.

2005 FJR, 55k miles, bought in Oct 2004. I ride almost daily to work. (see my 'introductory' post for bragging). In the last few months, the shifting has gotten clunkier. Now, it is also getting hard to shift, and neutral finding is a hit-or-miss thing. Very frustrating at a light - gentle nudge times about 7 usually gets it to finally find neutral.

I have large hands and the lever adjustment is all the way out. Clutch engagement seems to start about a millimeter away from the grip. At a light it almost seems to be trying to move forward with the lever in.

I changed the clutch fluid two weeks ago. I think that was the second time I had changed it, and please don't beat me up about it. I realize I should do it more often, and that may be my problem, or related to it. I used my mitivac to change it, and it was easy. But the instructions I used for that job suggested that I NOT completely empty the reservoir. However I read here that maybe I SHOULD completely suck it dry and then carefully refill it and bleed it.

That's the first possible question? Should I just do that? Best way to do a complete flush? Pictures online?

I also read about buying a gasket and taking off the sidecover and cleaning, brushing, whatever the clutch plates. Any pictures of anyone that has done this job online? How much fairing needs to be removed for this job?

Is it likely that the clutch plates are actually worn out? I know that people have 3, 4, 5 times as much mileage as I have. With original clutch plates?

 
First welcome from SoCal.

Hmmmm. You do have an absolutely far superior Gen1, best year FeeJ made. I've owned two myself.

One thing to try is adjust your lever all the way out I think it's number 1 or number 6, which ever, make sure it travels farther out. This will help when you pull the lever in, to make sure it's disengaging the clutch, not letting it creep on you with the clutch in. If that helps, I'd try bleeding the clutch line again, not all the way just a bit, manually, to make sure all the bubbles are out.

I also use a Mightyvac for bulk stuff, but to fine tune it, I bleed the last bit the old fashion way.

Another thing that helps is a braided stainless steel line, I’ll post later about my adventure with that on an ABS bike….

One other area to check is this post I did <clutch Maintenance> (see NeilSanDiego's post #10). That little plunger deal could sink further back and not give as much throw, so… Just sayin’.

You could have a bad slave at the clutch or it could be dirty etc. I would use that as a last resort though.

At worst you have worn cogs or dogs and that's more serious and costly. :dribble: :eek:

Good luck, let us know how it goes. ;)

 
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I bleed my brakes 2x a year, it's very damp here in Seattle and brake fluid tends to attract moisture. The very least change once a year. I empty out all the fluids in the reservoir then fill with new fluid and bleed the whole system. you want to purge out all the old fluid. I also added some STP oil treatment in the oil about 2 oz, it seems to take out the clunk when shifting into gear.

 
...2005 FJR, 55k miles...In the last few months, the shifting has gotten clunkier. Now, it is also getting hard to shift, and neutral finding is a hit-or-miss thing. Very frustrating at a light - gentle nudge times about 7 usually gets it to finally find neutral...Is it likely that the clutch plates are actually worn out?
To be clear, your problem is shifting gears, not clutch slipping or dragging? Your clutch shouldn't be worn out with normal use.

If your problem is simply hard shifting the solution is surprisingly simple. Really. The left side peg assembly and the shifter linkages need to be removed. Then the inside bolt needs to be removed from the pivot assembly, cleaned, lubed and reassembled. Note that the pivot assembly has a wave washer that has to be replaced in the correct orientation. Also note that the FSM specifies a torque that IMO is too high and flattens the washer which causes ongoing poor shifting. Some people pound the washer flat, others reduce the bolt torque. In any case this normal maintenance will fix your shifting issues. (Your right side brake pivot would love this same normal maintenance too.)

Just on the outside chance -- sometimes new boots will cause this same shifting problem until they break in or you get used to them.

Item 28 is the main bolt that needs to be removed, cleaned and lubed in addition to the rod ends. Item 29 is the wave washer. Pay close attention to the orientation and alignment of the parts because when you go to reinstall the assembly things can get confusing fast.

ShiftLinkage.jpg


 
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As ionbeam points out, a worn clutch will allow slippage under power. That's not your problem.

I would say that with the symptoms presented that the problem may be that you have some air trapped in the clutch hydraulic system. This has nothing to do with routine hydraulic line flushing as that is when you are trying to get rid of water absorbed into the fluid. Air in the lines, being easily compressible, effectively reduces the throw of the clutch slave cylinder resulting in incomplete clutch disengagement.

Because of the nearly vertical run of the clutch hydraulic line, it can be quite tricky to get all of the air bubbles removed by normal bleeding methods. Gravity makes them want to rise as you are trying to flush them out the bottom bleed screw.

Try this old trick. It may not fix it, but it can't hurt and it's real easy.

Pull in the clutch lever fully and Ty-wrap it to the handlebar. This will cause any air bubbles in the line to be compressed to a smaller size and reduce their tendency to stick to the inside walls of the tubing. Then turn the handle bars fully to the right putting the master cylinder as high as possible. Gently tap along the flexible clutch hydraulic line to assist the bubbles in dislodging and floating up to the top of the hydraulic line. Leave the bike in this position overnight. In the morning tap along the lines some more, and then with the bars still turned fully to the right, release the ty-wrap.

What should happen is that the compressed air bubbles should migrate up to just under the master cylinder. When the lever is finally released it will suck them back up into the reservoir.

BTW - This sometimes works with brakes too, but because the lines are not completely vertical, and there is often an ABS pump in the middle, is less effective there.

 
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No substitute for proper maintenance (i.e. Ionbeam's post)! I had a similar issue with my 2007 and in my case, it was related to proper bleeding - the old fashioned way. Once I flushed and properly bled the lines, the clutch position returned to a normal( ~1cm from grip) position for engagement.

 
Put your fully warmed up FJR on the center stand. Pull in the clutch and click it into second gear with the engine running. Does the rear wheel turn with enough force that a gentle touch with your toe can't stop the rotation?

If the tire doesn't turn or doesn't turn with force means that the clutch is fully disengaging all the plates and bleeding will not improve your shifting.

If the tire still turns with some force then air in the clutch hydraulic lines is compressing and letting the clutch plates drag. Bleeding the clutch lines should cure this.

 
Ok...So lemme ask this, cuz my '07 is doing something similar.

During riding, especially if I'm really getting into the revs, the bike 'clunks' into 4th gear. A few times, I have missed the shift completely. It feels like it snaps into gear and is very noticible when it happens. BUT it only does it between 3rd and 4th. It does not do it all the time. I've asked my dealer to check it twice and they can't find it. Say it feels normal. 60-70% of the time, it is normal. Smooth.

A fluid flush with SpeedBleeders and new fluid seemed to help reduce the frequency and severity, but it still happens and seems like its getting worse again.

I cleaned my shifter a while back, and I'll try again, but this is definitely not an exterior problem. Im wondering if I shouldn't do a clutch soak and try the air bubble removal thing and another flush.

Any ideas? Why only 4th gear??

 
Im wondering if I shouldn't do a clutch soak and try the air bubble removal thing and another flush.

Any ideas? Why only 4th gear??
I'm pretty new to fjr's, and to the site, so hope no one thinks I'm just bein a smart ass or something...

But before buying my 08, I spent weeks reading up on issues here.

From everything I've read, and my own clutch soak experience... the very FIRST thing anyone should do re issues clutch related is a clutch plate soak. It's the price of a new gasket and your time. And don't think I read where anyone who did it said "oh they were all fine, nice an oily"?

Mine didn't shift hard, but doing it resulted in the friction zone starting farther out from the grip, and there being I'd guess a 1/4 to 1/2 inch more friction area.

It seems from what I've read, I don't think ANYONE can say that this IS NOT a common problem with the fjr. I'd say... just do it...

 
Ok...So lemme ask this, cuz my '07 is doing something similar.

During riding, especially if I'm really getting into the revs, the bike 'clunks' into 4th gear. A few times, I have missed the shift completely. It feels like it snaps into gear and is very noticible when it happens. BUT it only does it between 3rd and 4th. It does not do it all the time. I've asked my dealer to check it twice and they can't find it. Say it feels normal. 60-70% of the time, it is normal. Smooth.

A fluid flush with SpeedBleeders and new fluid seemed to help reduce the frequency and severity, but it still happens and seems like its getting worse again.

I cleaned my shifter a while back, and I'll try again, but this is definitely not an exterior problem. Im wondering if I shouldn't do a clutch soak and try the air bubble removal thing and another flush.

Any ideas? Why only 4th gear??
Hate to say it zilla, but that's a classic gear dog problem...
 
...But before buying my 08... the very FIRST thing anyone should do re issues clutch related is a clutch plate soak...
The Gen I never had the clutch soak issue like the Gen II. While it wouldn't hurt, I'd be willing to bet that it won't help.

The OP has also already made a go at the clutch hydraulics without significant change. I've offered a simple check to see if the clutch is dragging, if it ain't dragging then the clutch is not the thing causing hard shifting.

I'm thinking that it would be helpful to perform the normal maintenance of clean 'n lube the shift pivot and eliminate that simple and low/no cost potential issue. It would suck to really dig into the hydraulics for days only to find out that the root cause was a <1 hr cleaning task. Even though it may sound unlikely, a binding shift pivot acts just like a clutch issue and the symptoms exactly match the OPs complaint.

 
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...But before buying my 08... the very FIRST thing anyone should do re issues clutch related is a clutch plate soak...
The Gen I never had the clutch soak issue like the Gen II. While it wouldn't hurt, I'd be willing to bet that it won't help.

The OP has also already made a go at the clutch hydraulics without significant change. I've offered a simple check to see if the clutch is dragging, if it ain't dragging then the clutch is not the thing causing hard shifting.

I'm thinking that it would be helpful to perform the normal maintenance of clean 'n lube the shift pivot and eliminate that simple and low/no cost potential issue. It would suck to really dig into the hydraulics for days only to find out that the root cause was a <1 hr cleaning task. Even though it may sound unlikely, a binding shift pivot acts just like a clutch issue and the symptoms exactly match the OPs complaint.
Well you out-knowledge me on this subject ionbeam, so no argument from here. Sounds like the key would be to know if, as you point out, the clutch is dragging. Can say, gen II (vs Gen I - good point!)... seem to drag a lot! quite a few threads re that issue.

We'll know soon enough is my guess...

 
With the engine off and in 1st gear verify that the bike rolls fairly easily with the clutch lever pulled back to the grip. I always do this before the first start of the day. I almost always start the engine while in 1st gear.

One might wonder if you have plenty of fluid in the hydraulics? None leaking out through the slave cylinder seal? Don't know how it would act if the master cylinder seal was leaky? Spongy, I guess.

If you have bubbles/voids in the hydraulics they're almost certainly down in the slave cylinder. Should be easy to evacuate them at the slave. Any bubbles beyond the slave would naturally work up and out into the master cylinder reservoir.

The fluid travels over five inches in the hose during each clutch operation. It's getting a nice workout which should help any bubbles move up and out except for those in the slave cylinder.

 
Hate to say it zilla, but that's a classic gear dog problem...
Ok Carver...I've kinda wondered all along if its a shift fork issue or a gear dog issue. The 4th gear only thing made me think it wasn't the shift fork. That and I don't hammer my gears.

So if is is a bunged gear dog, what does that mean? I have lots of YES left, so if it is something serious I wanna get it done before it comes outta pocket.

I have 40k on the bike so I was told to not even mess with the clutch soak. Don't think I mentioned it before, but after I changed the clutch fluid the first time, it got better and then worse again.

Maybe I'll just get a new gasket, soak the clutch, change the fluid and clean up the shifter. I'm less than 400 miles from my next oil change anyway. Ill make a day of it and see what happens.

 
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