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Please help me learn when to shift.


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#1 Sean

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:18 AM

Hello, I have an 06 FJR. Can someone please describe how to get a good time in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile? What RPM should I shift to the next gear. Any other tips for someone that doesn't know how to race at all?

Thank you for any help.

#2 rushes

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:33 AM

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#3 Fred W

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:39 AM

Sheniqua, 'niqua, who can I turn to?
You give me something I can hold onto
I know you think I'm like the others before
Who saw your name and number on the wall

Sheniqua, I got your number,
I need to make you mine.
Sheniqua, don't change your number,
Na-Fi-Fo-Fo-Fo-Ni-Fi
Na-Fi-Fo-Fo-Fo-Ni-Fi

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#4 silver spirit

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:58 AM

Hello, I have an 06 FJR. Can someone please describe how to get a good time in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile? What RPM should I shift to the next gear. Any other tips for someone that doesn't know how to race at all?

Thank you for any help.


Hi Sean

Welcome to the forum, and to the feejer! Sadly, you have posted your not unreasonable question on a Friday, which is a day when less-than-critical questions are typically responded to with light-hearted and often irrelevant humour.

Please don't be too annoyed! :unsure:

Seriously, to obtain minimum (best) drag-race times it's considered best to shift slightly after peak torque/hp, for pretty much any vehicle.

Please note that the FJR accelerates very nicely indeed, but really it is a sport tourer, and is designed and best suited for semi-spirited riding on twisty roads and long-distance touring.

:bike:

#5 Joe2Lmaker

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:09 PM

Can someone please describe how to get a good time ...


How to get a good time?

I thought Fred W nailed it. Why would someone vote down his post?

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#6 silver spirit

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:17 PM

Of course, *any* time on an FJR is a good time! :P

Missin' it real bad right now, because my 7oo m driveway is a sheet of ice, and the bike is in winter storage mode :cryingsmiley:

#7 UselessPickles

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

Seriously, to obtain minimum (best) drag-race times it's considered best to shift slightly after peak torque/hp, for pretty much any vehicle.


Well, which is it? Slightly after peak TQ, or slightly after peak HP?

Actually, neither is correct. The best shift point is the point at which the next highest gear begins to accelerate harder than the current gear. It's different per gear. Here's some details: http://www.fjrforum....howtopic=108817

I have some nicer data/graphs than what I have in that post. I'll look for it later and post some actual speed/RPM numbers for the shift points.

Please note that the FJR accelerates very nicely indeed, but really it is a sport tourer, and is designed and best suited for semi-spirited riding on twisty roads and long-distance touring.


There's nothing wrong with enjoying its acceleration. Even though it is a sport-tourer that soaks up miles well, it still puts down respectable 1/4 mile times. My best so far is 10.82s @ 127mph (although I have slip-ons and a modified air intake). And I enjoyed the ride to/from the drag strip.
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#8 Fred W

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:31 PM


Can someone please describe how to get a good time ...


How to get a good time?

I thought Fred W nailed it. Why would someone vote down his post?


Not PC? Not diversity sensitive? Or maybe I revealed their phone number? :P


8 6 7 5 3 0 9


Imagine being saddled with that phone number?
It would be pure hell, all the constant phone calls from the drag racer wannabes, looking for a good time. ;)

(at least someone cancelled out my negative juju)


I must admit that that was one of the oddest questions from a 3 post newby on a Friday in a really long time.

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#9 Usul

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:06 PM

My best time was a 9.5. She woulda been a 10 but I only had 8 beers.

#10 MEM

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:52 PM


Can someone please describe how to get a good time ...


How to get a good time?

I thought Fred W nailed it. Why would someone vote down his post?

8 6 7 5 3 0 9

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#11 dcarver

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:05 PM

Great phone number!

and I knew U'Pickles would respond! :yahoo:
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#12 wheatonFJR

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:05 PM



Can someone please describe how to get a good time ...


How to get a good time?

I thought Fred W nailed it. Why would someone vote down his post?

8 6 7 5 3 0 9

Tommy Tutone

one-hit wonder :lol:


But a good catchy one hit wonder with a good video...

#13 Sean

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:47 PM


Seriously, to obtain minimum (best) drag-race times it's considered best to shift slightly after peak torque/hp, for pretty much any vehicle.


Well, which is it? Slightly after peak TQ, or slightly after peak HP?

Actually, neither is correct. The best shift point is the point at which the next highest gear begins to accelerate harder than the current gear. It's different per gear. Here's some details: http://www.fjrforum....howtopic=108817

I have some nicer data/graphs than what I have in that post. I'll look for it later and post some actual speed/RPM numbers for the shift points.

Please note that the FJR accelerates very nicely indeed, but really it is a sport tourer, and is designed and best suited for semi-spirited riding on twisty roads and long-distance touring.


There's nothing wrong with enjoying its acceleration. Even though it is a sport-tourer that soaks up miles well, it still puts down respectable 1/4 mile times. My best so far is 10.82s @ 127mph (although I have slip-ons and a modified air intake). And I enjoyed the ride to/from the drag strip.


Yes this is exactly what I was looking for thanks. Will be looking for the speed/RPM info later. One more question though. Do I need to let off the gas and use the clutch when I shift? I have heard that you can skip using the clutch and just shift without it as long as you let off the throttle.

#14 Bustanut joker

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:56 PM

yer fucking shitting me right?:o
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#15 UselessPickles

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 06:36 PM

and I knew U'Pickles would respond! :yahoo:


Gee... how did you guess that? :)

I just can't leave a topic like this alone because there is so much unsupported advice out there related to peak TQ and peak HP that is all wrong, but widely accepted as correct.

Will be looking for the speed/RPM info later.


According to my calculations...

1st -> 2nd: ~9200 rpm (GenII: ~63mph, GenI: ~61 mph; don't hit the rev limiter!)
2nd -> 3rd: ~8900 rpm (GenII: ~87 mph, GenI: ~84 mph)
3rd -> 4th: ~8700 rpm (GenII: ~111 mph, GenI: ~109 mph)
4th -> 5th: ~8400 rpm (GenII: ~135 mph, GenI: ~131 mph)

The RPMs are valid for all model years of FJR with no mods. The speeds are actual speeds (your speedometer lies!), but actual speeds would vary slightly with different rear tires, different amount of wear, etc. You won't get a chance to shift into 5th in the 1/4 mile.

I won't include any additional "proof" for my numbers since the ideas behind the calculations are explained/illustrated in my older topic (http://www.fjrforum....howtopic=108817). You'll just have to trust that the code I wrote to generate the per-gear torque curves and find their intersections is correct :).

I used data from a dyno run of extrememarine's 2009 FJR, BTW. The data was exported directly from the original run file and processed by software that I wrote. No eyeballing or other error-prone estimations/measurements.

Do I need to let off the gas and use the clutch when I shift? I have heard that you can skip using the clutch and just shift without it as long as you let off the throttle.


As for clutchless shifting, I would just suggest you do a google search and read all the arguments for/against it, proper technique, etc., and decide for yourself if you want to try it. It's controversial enough that you'll have to decide for yourself what to take seriously and what to treat as exaggerated BS/opinion. I personally upshift without the clutch occasionally (at the drag strip, for example) for quicker/smoother shifts under hard acceleration. My wife actually almost exclusively upshifts without the clutch. She's just able to get smoother shifts that way on her particular bike with her particular style.
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#16 dcarver

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:18 PM

Really, it's kind of sad our Feejers require 3rd gear to break a 100 and still have respectable <yawn> 1/4 mile times..
Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#17 silver spirit

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:47 PM


Seriously, to obtain minimum (best) drag-race times it's considered best to shift slightly after peak torque/hp, for pretty much any vehicle.


Well, which is it? Slightly after peak TQ, or slightly after peak HP?

Actually, neither is correct. The best shift point is the point at which the next highest gear begins to accelerate harder than the current gear. It's different per gear. Here's some details: http://www.fjrforum....howtopic=108817

I have some nicer data/graphs than what I have in that post. I'll look for it later and post some actual speed/RPM numbers for the shift points.

Please note that the FJR accelerates very nicely indeed, but really it is a sport tourer, and is designed and best suited for semi-spirited riding on twisty roads and long-distance touring.


There's nothing wrong with enjoying its acceleration. Even though it is a sport-tourer that soaks up miles well, it still puts down respectable 1/4 mile times. My best so far is 10.82s @ 127mph (although I have slip-ons and a modified air intake). And I enjoyed the ride to/from the drag strip.


Dude, WTF? Clearly you have researched this topic far more than I even care to, and my response to OP was never intended to be technically precise, merely friendly and possibly a bit encouraging.

Also, where did I imply there was anything at all 'wrong with enjoying' the FJR's acceleration? :huh:

I can hardly wait for Spring to enjoy some of it!:yahoo:

#18 Fred W

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:22 AM



Can someone please describe how to get a good time ...


How to get a good time?

I thought Fred W nailed it. Why would someone vote down his post?

8 6 7 5 3 0 9

Tommy Tutone

one-hit wonder :lol:



I prefer the Blink 182 version, but I have both on my iPod. :punk:




As for clutchless shifting, I would just suggest you do a google search and read all the arguments for/against it, proper technique, etc., and decide for yourself if you want to try it. It's controversial enough that you'll have to decide for yourself what to take seriously and what to treat as exaggerated BS/opinion. I personally upshift without the clutch occasionally (at the drag strip, for example) for quicker/smoother shifts under hard acceleration. My wife actually almost exclusively upshifts without the clutch. She's just able to get smoother shifts that way on her particular bike with her particular style.



Hmmm... I must be doing something wrong.

Yes, I do make clutch-less up-shifts sometimes, but more often when I'm dawdling along and just feel like being lazy. Not when accelerating heavily. I'm not sure that I can actually execute one faster 'nor smoother since you do have to chop back on the throttle enough to un-load the gear dogs.

It just seems faster and smoother to fan the clutch half way while shifting. But yes, it is no doubt a personal choice.

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#19 ionbeam

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:34 AM

...According to my calculations...

1st -> 2nd: ~9200 rpm (GenII: ~63mph, GenI: ~61 mph; don't hit the rev limiter!)
2nd -> 3rd: ~8900 rpm (GenII: ~87 mph, GenI: ~84 mph)
3rd -> 4th: ~8700 rpm (GenII: ~111 mph, GenI: ~109 mph)
4th -> 5th: ~8400 rpm (GenII: ~135 mph, GenI: ~131 mph)...

I can corroborate this rpm to shift pattern produces the quickest 1/4 mile times. I base-lined a few runs taking it to the limit (one more time) and then progressively shifting sooner. This not only optimizes the gear/speed intersect, it also moves you closer to peak HP from ~7,250 to 8,500 rpm. After this rpm range from second gear on, torque and HP are falling very quickly while aerodynamics is really starting to load up the engine.

Bad decisions make for good stories.


#20 UselessPickles

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 03:23 PM

Dude, WTF? Clearly you have researched this topic far more than I even care to, and my response to OP was never intended to be technically precise, merely friendly and possibly a bit encouraging.


This sure looks like a response that you intended to be interpreted by the OP as technically correct fact:

Seriously, to obtain minimum (best) drag-race times it's considered best to shift slightly after peak torque/hp, for pretty much any vehicle.


Your response was written in a way as to state a fact that you believed to be true. I provided correct information. What's wrong with that? If you truly do not believe your response to be technically correct, then you should qualify it with something like "I have heard that..." or something similar to not mislead the OP into believing that they can accept as trustworthy factual information.

It's not a big deal on a topic like this, but imagine if someone so assertively provided incorrect information about setting the camshaft timing, or something equally critical.

Also, where did I imply there was anything at all 'wrong with enjoying' the FJR's acceleration? :huh:


Right here:

Please note that the FJR accelerates very nicely indeed, but really it is a sport tourer, and is designed and best suited for semi-spirited riding on twisty roads and long-distance touring.


You implied that it's improper use of the FJR (or silly, or something) to be concerned about optimizing shifting for max acceleration, because that's not the primary design of the FJR.

This not only optimizes the gear/speed intersect, it also moves you closer to peak HP from ~7,250 to 8,500 rpm. After this rpm range from second gear on, torque and HP are falling very quickly while aerodynamics is really starting to load up the engine.


Aerodynamics has no effect on when to shift (unless you have something really fancy that morphs at higher speeds to change its aerodynamics). Drag is purely a function of speed, so it reduces acceleration equally in all gears at a given speed. "landing" in the peak HP after the shift is also not a factor. All that matters is how much torque is produced at the wheel in each gear across all speeds. The only way to determine that is to create a torque curve for each gear (torque at the wheel vs. ground speed) and find where they intersect.

Here's some visual aids...

First, the dyno data that my calculations are based on. This was a stock 2009 FJR, with SAE correction for weather applied. Peak torque is 86.62 ft-lbs @ 6800rpm, and peak power is 121.16 hp @ 7900rpm.
Posted Image

This is max acceleration per gear, accounting for drag and the weight of me on the bike, based on that dyno data:
Posted Image

Where they intersect is when you want to shift.

Here's a speed-vs-RPM graph when shifting at those points:
Posted Image

Each shift "lands" before peak HP, and some even before peak TQ.

Although, now that I look at it this way, the change in RPM involved in each shift is nearly centered around peak HP. The center of each change ranges between 7831 and 7857 rpm (compared to the peak HP at 7900 rpm). My data is only sampled at every 100 rpm. I wonder if more continuous data would end up causing the center of each change to move closer to peak HP. Then, I would wonder if it is always that way on all vehicles due to the way the math works out, or if it's just a coincidence or the result of intentional engineering...

(a few minutes later...)

WHOA! I think I'm on to something. I just looked at data for several other bikes (zx10r, cbr500rr, harley street glide, honda shadow 750, etc.). Guess what? The shifts are all centered around peak HP! It seems more likely that this is not just coincidence. It might be a correct generalization to say that you should shift such the RPMs before/after the shift are centered around the peak HP RPMs.
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