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Gen I mid gear leak


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#1 TownsendsFJR1300

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:20 PM

I did a search but haven't found anything posted on the forum, just one gear failure-(not much detail as it was covered under warranty)...

On my 04, I noticed a small amount of oil dripping from the lower bolt (of three) where the plastic cover that bolts to the rear of the engine, where the universal joint is near.

This mid gear shaft is in line with the drive shaft, (not the mid gear that runs from right to left inside the engine). Looking at the shop manual, it shows an o-ring around the entire unit (that resides inside the block) and a seal at the end of the aluminum housing. There is also a shim for adjusting gear lash.. The universal joint appears to go on after that.

Its not terribly clear on how to replace these seals however it appears, the rear wheel, pumpkin, side kickstand assembly, plastic cover and universal joint needs to be removed.

Has anyone had this section of mid gear leak, we're they able to pull the entire assembly without pulling the swingarm to replace both the o-ring and seal?

Its also hard to tell what the seal actually actually rides on as there doesn't appear (in the manual) to be a smooth portion on the mid gear shaft..

Anyone?


Scott

2007 Yamaha FZ6
- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

 

 

 

 


#2 FJRay

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:24 PM

I did a search but haven't found anything posted on the forum, just one gear failure-(not much detail as it was covered under warranty)...

On my 04, I noticed a small amount of oil dripping from the lower bolt (of three) where the plastic cover that bolts to the rear of the engine, where the universal joint is near.

This mid gear shaft is in line with the drive shaft, (not the mid gear that runs from right to left inside the engine). Looking at the shop manual, it shows an o-ring around the entire unit (that resides inside the block) and a seal at the end of the aluminum housing. There is also a shim for adjusting gear lash.. The universal joint appears to go on after that.

Its not terribly clear on how to replace these seals however it appears, the rear wheel, pumpkin, side kickstand assembly, plastic cover and universal joint needs to be removed.

Has anyone had this section of mid gear leak, we're they able to pull the entire assembly without pulling the swingarm to replace both the o-ring and seal?

Its also hard to tell what the seal actually actually rides on as there doesn't appear (in the manual) to be a smooth portion on the mid gear shaft..

Anyone?


Mine leaked new and again a short time later so both times were under waranty. As far as I know the engine needs to move foward because the bolts are to long to come all the way out. Then the seal can be replaced along with the oring.
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#3 TownsendsFJR1300

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:55 PM

Thanks FJRay.

Anyone with hands on experiance do this repair?

Scott

2007 Yamaha FZ6
- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

 

 

 

 


#4 SkooterG

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:49 PM

We see this problem from time to time. Thankfully not very often as it is a bitch to repair. As FJRay metioned, the engine has to be moved to gain access to one of the bolts.

Bummer.
IBA #327........................ Darksider #52

FJR#1 - The 'Dirty Ol Whore' - 2004 non-abs - RIP @ 226,400 - Gone, but not forgotton.
FJR#2 - The 'Hula Girl' - 2004 ABS - 143k
FJR#3 - The 'Virgin' - 2004 ABS - 4344 miles, a garage queen - Brundog would be proud!
FJR#4 - The Oregon FJR - 2004 ABS - 65k
FJR#5 - The Bastard POS Gen II - 2009A - 42k

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#5 Behmer

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:30 PM

I just fixed mine last weekend. It's been leaking for a few years and I finally took the time to fix it.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Not sure if you have to go to this extent but it's so much easier to replace the seal with nothing in the way. This also gives me the oppurtunity to take care of a few other things while it's out and easy to work on.
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#6 FJRay

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:41 PM

I just fixed mine last weekend. It's been leaking for a few years and I finally took the time to fix it.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Not sure if you have to go to this extent but it's so much easier to replace the seal with nothing in the way. This also gives me the oppurtunity to take care of a few other things while it's out and easy to work on.


If you haven't done it go ahead and pull the seal housing and replace the o-ring on it. That was the source of the leak on mine.
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#7 TownsendsFJR1300

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:42 PM

I just fixed mine last weekend. It's been leaking for a few years and I finally took the time to fix it.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Not sure if you have to go to this extent but it's so much easier to replace the seal with nothing in the way. This also gives me the oppurtunity to take care of a few other things while it's out and easy to work on.


Can I assume the seal is already out in the second picture?

I don't see the plastic cover (probably installes once the bike is semi back together)...

If you could, when/if you pull the mid gear, can you measure how far the bolts have to come out. The inside one seems to be the only one near the frame and has about 3/4" before it would hit.. I suspect the entire unit needs to pull out to put the new O-ring in as well. Does it appear the mid gear shaft can come out just a little (3/4") and then angle it to the outside to remove from the engine?

Thank you all for your replies. (mines apparently leaking for awhile as there's an oily film all around it underneath by the centerstand)

Scott

2007 Yamaha FZ6
- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

 

 

 

 


#8 SkooterG

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:35 PM

I just fixed mine last weekend. It's been leaking for a few years and I finally took the time to fix it.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Not sure if you have to go to this extent but it's so much easier to replace the seal with nothing in the way. This also gives me the oppurtunity to take care of a few other things while it's out and easy to work on.


Wow! What you Minne-snow-tans will do to keep busy during the winter months! That is one horrendously dis-assembled FJR. I would be afraid of gettting it all back together correctly.

Nice job Peter, thanks for posting the photos.
IBA #327........................ Darksider #52

FJR#1 - The 'Dirty Ol Whore' - 2004 non-abs - RIP @ 226,400 - Gone, but not forgotton.
FJR#2 - The 'Hula Girl' - 2004 ABS - 143k
FJR#3 - The 'Virgin' - 2004 ABS - 4344 miles, a garage queen - Brundog would be proud!
FJR#4 - The Oregon FJR - 2004 ABS - 65k
FJR#5 - The Bastard POS Gen II - 2009A - 42k

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#9 Behmer

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:13 PM

Townsends,

Seal was removed in the picture. It fits flush with the housing when installed. Here is a picture showing the length of the bolts and the gear and shaft.

Posted Image

One of the inside.

Posted Image

It might be possible to do the seal without dropping the engine but it definately needs to move forward to get all of the bolts out. I don't think you'd get the o ring changed without removing all of the frame to engine bolts and getting the engine far enough from the frame to remove the gear and shaft. If I can get you any other measurements or pics let me know.
As has been mentioned if you have it this far you may as well change the seal and the o ring. Mine was a bad seal but both got changed just for piece of mind.
Peter Behm
Stillwater, MN.

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2012 Tenere

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#10 TownsendsFJR1300

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 03:23 AM

Townsends,

Seal was removed in the picture. It fits flush with the housing when installed. Here is a picture showing the length of the bolts and the gear and shaft.

Posted Image

One of the inside.

Posted Image

It might be possible to do the seal without dropping the engine but it definately needs to move forward to get all of the bolts out. I don't think you'd get the o ring changed without removing all of the frame to engine bolts and getting the engine far enough from the frame to remove the gear and shaft. If I can get you any other measurements or pics let me know.
As has been mentioned if you have it this far you may as well change the seal and the o ring. Mine was a bad seal but both got changed just for piece of mind.




Thank you for the pictures, it definitly clears things up... I now know most definitly no real shortcuts here...

I had the kickstand/side cover, etc off yesterday looking for the exact location of the leakage. The rear seal is pretty dry, the inner O-ring has got to be the culprit... And yes, there's only about 1/4" for bolt removal. I thought about cutting the bolts down that hit the frame, then replace with studs/nuts but looking at your pictures, the studs would be too long to fit as well..

I suppose, one shortcut would be to pull the main housing back that 1/4" and get a good case sealer (after cleaning with brake cleaner) on the flange, inner main carrier surface, should just your O-ring be leaking... Its not a real bad leak, apparently been leaking just a wisp for awhile as there was somewhat an oil residue/dirt layer in the area.

While I was there and it was now spotless (with brake cleaner) I put some Yamabond case sealer (for center, non gasket case sealing) around the lower half of all seams. I figured it can't hurt anything and the drip is so minor and only seems to pass a small amount of oil only at highway speeds.

I'll update once I get some ride time, it may help someone with a similar, very minor leak...

Thank you all again....

Scott

Scott

2007 Yamaha FZ6
- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

 

 

 

 


#11 hppants

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:08 PM

Damm - I hope mine never leaks, because if it does, I may be SOL with only 1 choice, bend over and cough.
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#12 TownsendsFJR1300

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:21 PM

Damm - I hope mine never leaks, because if it does, I may be SOL with only 1 choice, bend over and cough.



I looked at a 2012 parts diagram, the design/parts are exactly the same, no changes...

It seems the inner o-ring just flattens over time. Mine had apparently been seeping for some time and I just noticed it.

The area its located is above the oil level line so your only really getting sprayed oil there, so no major leaks can really occur from the o-ring.

The seal on the outside of the unit of mine was dry and could probably be replaced after pulling the driveshaft. The swingarm does NOT have to be removed as the pivot joint for the swingarm is just inside of the universal joint...

Scott

2007 Yamaha FZ6
- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

 

 

 

 


#13 Tree Doc

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:53 PM

Son of a Bit.... :rolleyes:

Tell me where else you could possibly get detailed advice with photos? No where! Impressive, to say the least.

Behmer, to me, the o-ring looks flattened AND twisted in it's channel. Is that the old one that was replaced?
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#14 TownsendsFJR1300

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:10 PM

Son of a Bit.... :rolleyes:

Tell me where else you could possibly get detailed advice with photos? No where! Impressive, to say the least.

Behmer, to me, the o-ring looks flattened AND twisted in it's channel. Is that the old one that was replaced?


No where else but on THIS FORUM can you find this and I have searched... This is, by far, the most knowledgable group of FJR owenrs/riders :)

And yes, his does look flattened and twisted in the photo...


I suspect this post is the most information re this problem ANYWHERE available..

Scott

2007 Yamaha FZ6
- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

 

 

 

 


#15 Behmer

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:04 AM

The o ring pictured is the original one.
Scooter, you'll be happy to know it's back together and running as of last night. Just need to put the Tupperware back on around the front after changing the meter lights.
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#16 Tree Doc

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:18 AM

The o ring pictured is the original one.
Scooter, you'll be happy to know it's back together and running as of last night. Just need to put the Tupperware back on around the front after changing the meter lights.


Excellent!

As for the o-ring being twisted. Perhaps it's failure was preordained since it's original installation was possibly less than correct?

Who knows.
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#17 wheatonFJR

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:40 AM

Wow...how did I miss this thread? Thanks for posting.

I ordered the parts a year ago, thinking I could change these seals. But alas I do not feel able to do this yet. Great photos though. My leak is just enough to get things a little dirty down below...but not enough to significantly affect oil level.

#18 SkooterG

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:16 AM

Scooter, you'll be happy to know it's back together and running as of last night. Just need to put the Tupperware back on around the front after changing the meter lights.


:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

So it's all ready to win another IBR? :)

Next winter I am leaving you my FJRs for whatever maintenance they may need. ;)
IBA #327........................ Darksider #52

FJR#1 - The 'Dirty Ol Whore' - 2004 non-abs - RIP @ 226,400 - Gone, but not forgotton.
FJR#2 - The 'Hula Girl' - 2004 ABS - 143k
FJR#3 - The 'Virgin' - 2004 ABS - 4344 miles, a garage queen - Brundog would be proud!
FJR#4 - The Oregon FJR - 2004 ABS - 65k
FJR#5 - The Bastard POS Gen II - 2009A - 42k

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#19 Behmer

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:53 AM


Scooter, you'll be happy to know it's back together and running as of last night. Just need to put the Tupperware back on around the front after changing the meter lights.


:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

So it's all ready to win another IBR? :)

Next winter I am leaving you my FJRs for whatever maintenance they may need. ;)


Garage is always open for ya Scooter.
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Stillwater, MN.

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2007 WR 450
2007 FZ6
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#20 blrfjr

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:06 PM

At 5900 miles my 05 does not leak anything but, thanks for the education I received by reading this thread!! This type of repair seems kinda scary but i dont think I would be afraid to try it. THIS IS WHY I LIKE THIS FORUM!! :clapping: I had a little problem with my bike yesterday. I came home did a search on the forum and figured it out without having to post anything.....NICE!
Thanks everyone, Bryan

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