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Help. FJR won't start.


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#1 dunhamg

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 06:43 PM

Well, sitting over the winter didn't fix my FJR. Still trying to figure out how to get spark. I get an error code 19, which means there is an open circuit from the sidestand switch. When I disconnect the connector and check the switch I show I've continuity over the switch. Any other ideas I'm missing? The bike cranks over, the kill switch works and the neutral light works as it should.

Any way to bypass the sidestand circuit at the ECU, possibly? If I've got a wire worn off or something between the switch and the ECU.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Grady
Grady A. Dunham
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#2 dunhamg

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:59 PM

Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like the only other thing that it could be is the starter cut off relay. Anyone know where that is located?

Grady
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#3 Fred W

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:42 AM

Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like the only other thing that it could be is the starter cut off relay. Anyone know where that is located?

Grady


It is under the seat, right next to the tip-over relay.

I once had a problem with mine. One of the wires going into it had a broken connector.
Here was my post, showing its location.
It may depend on which wire / connection fails, but in my case I could not even turn the engine over with the starter when the connector broke.

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#4 Zorlac

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 04:04 AM

http://www.fjrforum....ndpost&p=695657
It makes sense when you don't think about it.

#5 dunhamg

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:58 AM

So now I guess my question to the electrical gurus on the forum. Shouldn't the bike be able to run even with the sidestand down if it's in neutral?

I've ruled out the ignition switch as I've got those wires jumpered together.

The sidestand switch isn't working completely right as I can't get it to switch on the diagnostic screen. D20 should go from off to on. I've tried disconnecting the side stand switch and jumpering it, but I still can't get it to change. It keeps reading "off" The side stand switch seems to be always closed, I don't get an open circuit through that one either way.

Which way should the circuit be open, with the plunger out or depressed?

Thanks,
Grady
Grady A. Dunham
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'03 FJR
'04 ZX-10R
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#6 James

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:39 AM

So now I guess my question to the electrical gurus on the forum. Shouldn't the bike be able to run even with the sidestand down if it's in neutral?

I've ruled out the ignition switch as I've got those wires jumpered together.

The sidestand switch isn't working completely right as I can't get it to switch on the diagnostic screen. D20 should go from off to on. I've tried disconnecting the side stand switch and jumpering it, but I still can't get it to change. It keeps reading "off" The side stand switch seems to be always closed, I don't get an open circuit through that one either way.

Which way should the circuit be open, with the plunger out or depressed?

Thanks,
Grady


If the relay under the seat goes bad, as mine did, you need at least two of the three in the start position- in my case, the side stand needs to be up & the clutch in or bypassed. It won't even recognize neutral. I'm replacing that relay today (thanks, Mike!) as well as the clutch switch to get that back.
James
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#7 dunhamg

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:24 PM

Is there an easy way to test out that relay to know if that is the issue? Because I can get two of them in starting position. I did check the clutch sensor and that one works well. Also, the kill switch works, it won't crank if that's off, but will if it's on. It also won't crank if it's in gear either with the clutch pulled in or not.

Grady

Edited by dunhamg, 24 March 2012 - 03:31 PM.

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#8 Zorlac

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:05 PM

If you have the FSM & trace out those wires, I think those ignition switch wires carry the safety interlock signals line back to the ECU.
I don't think shorting them together will help in this case.
It makes sense when you don't think about it.

#9 Zorlac

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:07 PM

If you have the FSM & trace out those wires, I think those ignition switch wires carry the safety interlock signals line back to the ECU.
I don't think shorting them together will help in this case.
But I could be mistaken. :blink:


You can check the operation of the sidestand switch with ohmmeter probes on the connector in the cable that runs up from the sidestand switch on the left side.
I think closed is up.

When mine acted up it would just crank away & not start as long as it was in neutral or the clutch was pulled in regardless of the sidestand's position.

Try reconnecting the harness and cycling the ignition switch a number of times to see if the diag screen will then sense sidestand operation.
It makes sense when you don't think about it.

#10 Fred W

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:54 AM

OK, how it is supposed to work:

If your kickstand is down and the bike is not in neutral, or if the bike is in gear and you don't have the clutch pulled in, or if the kill switch is off, then the "starting circuit cut-off relay" will remain de-energized and this will inhibit the starter motor. With the kill switch on, putting the bike in neutral or with the sidestand up pulling in the clutch will put a ground on a line that will energize that relay, and allow the starter motor to operate. Because your starter operates normally, all of these switches must be working correctly.

This same ground signal, either from the sidestand being up or the bike being in neutral, is routed through a set of small contacts in the ignition switch which go to the ECU. This is how the ECU determines that the sidestand is up when the bike is in gear. If that ground signal goes missing the ECU disables the fuel injection relay and the engine dies.

This is the most likely reason that your bike turns over but will not start and also gives you a 19 error.

Probably the easiest place to troubleshoot the problem is right there at the ignition switch. There are two, two terminal connectors coming from this switch. The heavier gauge red and brown wires are the switched 12V that runs to most of the bike's switched power circuits.

The smaller pair of wires are Blue w/ Yellow stripe for the kickstand/neutral ground coming into the ignition switch, and the white w/ blue stripes wire is the same signal going out to the ECU. Pull this connector apart and measure the continuity of the switch side of the disconnected connector when you turn the key switch to on.

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#11 dunhamg

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:06 PM

OK, how it is supposed to work:

If your kickstand is down and the bike is not in neutral, or if the bike is in gear and you don't have the clutch pulled in, or if the kill switch is off, then the "starting circuit cut-off relay" will remain de-energized and this will inhibit the starter motor. With the kill switch on, putting the bike in neutral or with the sidestand up pulling in the clutch will put a ground on a line that will energize that relay, and allow the starter motor to operate. Because your starter operates normally, all of these switches must be working correctly.

This same ground signal, either from the sidestand being up or the bike being in neutral, is routed through a set of small contacts in the ignition switch which go to the ECU. This is how the ECU determines that the sidestand is up when the bike is in gear. If that ground signal goes missing the ECU disables the fuel injection relay and the engine dies.

This is the most likely reason that your bike turns over but will not start and also gives you a 19 error.

Probably the easiest place to troubleshoot the problem is right there at the ignition switch. There are two, two terminal connectors coming from this switch. The heavier gauge red and brown wires are the switched 12V that runs to most of the bike's switched power circuits.

The smaller pair of wires are Blue w/ Yellow stripe for the kickstand/neutral ground coming into the ignition switch, and the white w/ blue stripes wire is the same signal going out to the ECU. Pull this connector apart and measure the continuity of the switch side of the disconnected connector when you turn the key switch to on.


Thanks, I think that may have been it. I ran the two blue wire at the ignition to ground and now I've got spark. I think I just need to get the battery charged a little better as it wouldn't start, but it was firing. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get it going again.

Appreciate all the help trying to get this one back on the road.

Grady
Grady A. Dunham
IBA # 42134
'03 FJR
'04 ZX-10R
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