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#1 JR'SFJR

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

I have an 07 with 57k. The last few days, the engine cranks quickly for part of a second, then slows till it starts. It still starts quickly, but the sound has changed. 5w40 oil. It happens mostly when the engines warm. I decided to run tests, before I need a ride home. Battery connections are tight. 2 year old battery from Bike Effects holds 11 volts during load testing, which is good. During engine cranking, the battery volts will drop in the 8 volt range. It should be a min. 9.6 v's, at least that's what we used on cars. Starter amp. draw during cranking goes to 220-230, while my LT is around 130. Way too much starter amp. draw and it's only a 180 amp. starter solenoid-relay. Guess it's time to take a look at the starter.

#2 Vmaxrider

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:15 PM

11 volts sounds low to me, I would try another battery first. Plus, I could be mistaken but don't you have to drop the engine to get to the starter? That could be a huge PITA

#3 SkooterG

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:28 PM

11 volts sounds low to me, I would try another battery first. Plus, I could be mistaken but don't you have to drop the engine to get to the starter? That could be a huge PITA


No. You don't have to drop the engine. But you do have to remove the airbox and throttlebodies. Clicky.

11 volts under load may not be low. What kind of load are you putting on it? 8 volts while cranking is low.

Odd for a starter to go that quickly, but anything is possible. Start looking for a cheap one on ebay.......

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FJRForum:  No fun allowed here!

FJR#1 - The 'Dirty Ol Whore' - 2004 non-abs - RIP @ 226,400 - Gone, but not forgotton.
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#4 wfooshee

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

Don't have to drop the engine, but the entire intake has to come off: airbox, throttle bodies, all of it.

I went through this in 2009, didn't measure cranking draw (because it pegged my 160-amp meter,) but had no-load draw of over 80 amps. Which by the way, is about what it should draw cranking the engine.
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#5 JR'SFJR

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:49 PM

I have two chrome portable toaster element type battery testers. My DC induction amp tester shows it applies about 100 amps load, which should be enough load for a motorcycle battery. The battery holds fine for 10 seconds. Sure don't feel like pulling the starter.

#6 wfooshee

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:43 PM

Kinda doesn't matter what you feel like, does it? ;)

If it's pulling that much current, then it's no good, or you have some really lousy connections somewhere.

I tested no-load on mine by removing it, bolting it to the frame rail by the tool tray, reconnecting electricals and hitting the starter button. Like I said, over 80 amps no-load, when it should be around 30 or 35.
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#7 SkooterG

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:51 PM

Kinda doesn't matter what you feel like, does it? ;)

If it's pulling that much current, then it's no good, or you have some really lousy connections somewhere.

I tested no-load on mine by removing it, bolting it to the frame rail by the tool tray, reconnecting electricals and hitting the starter button. Like I said, over 80 amps no-load, when it should be around 30 or 35.


Hey Walt. Well, for the first time I have been reading your starter thread. I am about half way through. I see from the dates that I was out running the 09 Iron Butt Rally which is why I have never read it before. Just one thing I want to clarify you poor bastard - at least on Gen I FJRs, you don't have to remove the fuel rail or disconnect all the coolant connections. When I did mine, I just removed the throttlebody and moved it out of the way with fuel rail and coolant stuff still connected.

IBA #327........................ Darksider #52

 

FJRForum:  No fun allowed here!

FJR#1 - The 'Dirty Ol Whore' - 2004 non-abs - RIP @ 226,400 - Gone, but not forgotton.
FJR#2 - The 'Hula Girl' - 2004 ABS - 147k
FJR#3 - The 'Virgin' - 2004 ABS - 4344 miles, a garage queen
FJR#4 - The Oregon FJR - 2004 ABS - 65k
FJR#5 - The Bastard POS Gen II - 2009A - 68k

FJR#6 - ?????

200K_04CLUB.jpg 100K%2004CLUB.jpg 158771.png


#8 JR'SFJR

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

Thanks for the support!!! Probably dig in tomorrow.

#9 RadioHowie

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:53 PM

Hey Walt. Well, for the first time I have been reading your starter thread. I am about half way through. I see from the dates that I was out running the 09 Iron Butt Rally which is why I have never read it before. Just one thing I want to clarify you poor bastard - at least on Gen I FJRs, you don't have to remove the fuel rail or disconnect all the coolant connections. When I did mine, I just removed the throttlebody and moved it out of the way with fuel rail and coolant stuff still connected.


I'm not Walt, but I DID have breakfast with him 2 Sundays ago, and yes, you can move the fuel rail attached to the TBs without pulling it off.

To the OP, once you get all the crap outta the way, there are only 2 dinky little hex bolts holding the starter in. It's easy-peasy to get out.....once the wreckage of the Edmund Fitzgerald out of the way. :)
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#10 road runner

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:28 AM

Sure sounds like the starter, although seems to young. Do a voltage drop test on the entire positive and negative starter circuit to check all the connections first.


Waiting for some of Howies informative pics. Or maybe he's busy coloring eggs. :)
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#11 RadioHowie

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 04:46 AM

Posted Image
"Screw you guys....I'm going home riding!" Darksider #15
The whole chicken strips thing is BS. - HaulinAshe 7/29/2010
Man, there's a lot of info here if I just shut my pie hole and read. -- madmatt 8/5/2010

#12 Bustanut joker

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:59 AM

Posted Image


And the resultant hatchling...


Posted Image

Ye gads!!!
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted ImagePosted Image Los Robustos M/C member #18 Darksider #28

#13 road runner

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

OMG. Barry you made me piss my pants. :lol:
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#14 JR'SFJR

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:32 PM

It's fixed!! Took me about two hours to snag the starter out this morning. Benched the starter off my truck battery with jumper cables and it showed 175 amps draw!!!! It would only run about 2-3 seconds before growling to half speed or less. Since I don't have access to a starter growler tester or lathe anymore, I took the starter to an old generator shop I've doing business with for 25 years. Fella been doing starters for 50 years disassembled it, cleaned junk out of the grooves between the armature commutator strips, tested the armature on a growler, cleaned the commutator on lathe, greased the bearings, assembled it and bench tested it for 15 seconds, running like a new one!!! Only took him 10 mins. and said no charge. Gave him a $20 and couldn't be more pleased.

I benched it again at home off my truck battery.....38 amps instead of 175 amps. Took me a little longer going back together. The intake valves and runners were very clean. The throttle plates had some build up, so cleaned them. Cranks now at 11 volts instead of in the 8's On the road again!!!

#15 SkooterG

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:36 PM

Two hours to get it out! You bastard! :lol:

Wow, glad you got it fixed....... but I don't see any photos! Baaaad!

Great that you had a local shop like that available. A lot better than having to purchase a replacement.

No photos of the Throttlebody plates? :angry2: How bad were they?

IBA #327........................ Darksider #52

 

FJRForum:  No fun allowed here!

FJR#1 - The 'Dirty Ol Whore' - 2004 non-abs - RIP @ 226,400 - Gone, but not forgotton.
FJR#2 - The 'Hula Girl' - 2004 ABS - 147k
FJR#3 - The 'Virgin' - 2004 ABS - 4344 miles, a garage queen
FJR#4 - The Oregon FJR - 2004 ABS - 65k
FJR#5 - The Bastard POS Gen II - 2009A - 68k

FJR#6 - ?????

200K_04CLUB.jpg 100K%2004CLUB.jpg 158771.png


#16 wfooshee

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:26 PM

Where's this guy that does free starter work???? I've still got my original laying on a shelf in the garage, not rebuilt.

I'm in Florida, he can't be too far. Well, actually, he could, but still, where is he?

(Folks don't realize how big Florida actually is. Find a map of the US that you don't need any more, and cut Florida out. Lay it on Texas. You can't make it fit inside Texas!)
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#17 Bustanut joker

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

OMG. Barry you made me piss my pants. :lol:



Don't lay this on me.. That freak Craver sent me his picture, I just laid it out here.
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#18 Powerman

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:35 PM

Starter repair places are hard to find these days. The auto parts kid said nobody fixes starters anymore, might as well called me an old fuck.
My buddy turned me on to a place. The guy recognized the part from ten feet away, what number on the side? Come back tomorrow I'll have it.
He threw me a free set of brushes, you have to solder them in.

#19 JR'SFJR

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:02 AM

I live on the Treasure Coast of FL and took the starter to Fort Pierce Generator Service. I was lucky with low mileage that nothing was tore up or oil leaking inside. He didn't rebuild it, which would include new brushes, bearings, bushings, o rings, and machine the commutator. He just cleaned the commutator. If the armature is bad, look for a different starter. It only takes a couple of mins. to look inside. Mark the ends and center magnet so you know how it goes back together. Remove the 2 long bolts, pull it apart and see what the brush-commutator condition is. Don't hammer on the center magnet. If you are lucky, clean the narrow commutator bar grooves with a dentist tool? and use abrasive on the commutator to clean it. Brushes can be tricky to hold in place during assembly, but 4 roach clips work great while siding it together. I see Yamaha only sells o rings and brushes. This fella would make the brushes if needed and said these starters are very durable.

The throttle plates had a little build up, so I cleaned them.

I haven't learned how of post pictures.