No ABS!

At the end of a day ride yesterday, the obligatory cat runs in front of me, so I do the standard progressive brake application using both front and rear brakes. No problem, miss the cat and all is well. But then as I'm reliving the moment, I realize the ABS did not kick in and I had actually slightly locked up the rear wheel. I tried it again and sure enough, full rear lock up and no ABS. I glance at the dash, ABS light is not on. So I pull over, turn off the ignition, turn it back on, and the ABS light comes on for a couple of seconds and then goes out, like all the other idiot lights. try it again to be sure, and the rear wheel locks up.

2004, never had the brakes serviced, or fluids changed, with 32k on the bike. I take it back, pads have been changed. I have an appointment with Roseville Yamaha next week, but thought I would check in here as well.

Any ideas?

There is a way to "exercise" the solenoids, and a stuck solenoid will not light the light, but will disable the ABS. The system doesn't know it's stuck, all it sees is that it's present electrically.

Have a look at Ionbeam's Most Excellent ABS Workout Program.

Unfortunately, we are starting to see this issue as the early model year FJRs age. There have been several examples, all being 04s that I am aware of. Search around and you will find a couple threads.

There is a good chance your front ABS is still working. Only the rear failing has happened to several of us. As Walt said, usually a bad solenoid and no way to fix it. If you still want ABS, you have to replace the whole ABS pump. Buying it new at like $1300 and paying the labor to have it done is prohibitive, and you are better off with a now 'non-abs' FJR imho. If you can score a used abs pump off ebay for a few hundred dollars and replace it yourself, then that seems to be a viable option.

But dude, I'm sorry but I have to take issue with your maintenance regimen. NEVER changing hydraulic fluids on a nearly 9 year old motorcycle?!?! That is EXTREMELY bad form. I'm surprised your brakes work worth a crap at all. Lord knows what kind of mucky goo your fluid is and what dirt and/or corrosion is present in your system. Yikes! Most of us replace fluids every other year, some every year, and some less infrequent than that. But NINE years? :blink:

Although it's probably too late...it might worth a shot. Perform a really thorough flush of the brakes, exercise the solenoids via diagnostics and see if the ABS will come back to life. All you're out is a few $$$ for brake fluid.

IF that works, go find yourself a smooth dirt road and exercise the ABS...frequently.

Good luck!

--G

escapefjrtist said:

Although it's probably too late...it might worth a shot. Perform a really thorough flush of the brakes, exercise the solenoids via diagnostics and see if the ABS will come back to life. All you're out is a few $$$ for brake fluid.

IF that works, go find yourself a smooth dirt road and exercise the ABS...frequently.

Good luck!

--G

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+1 on the exercise!

I try to kick in ABS once a month or so. I find gravel or something and lock em up so it kicks in.

I also change fluid every 24 months also. I think both need done to keep it happy. 9 year old fluid would have a lot of water content and sitting in a piston chamber of the ABS unit would not be good.

Here is a good thread to start reading

It cost me ~$1200 to have a Yamaha dealer replace the frozen solenoid. There is a thread on here about someone that did the job themselves. The part is HYDRAULIC UNIT ASSY (part # 5VS-85930-09-00).

Good luck!

SkooterG said:

But dude, I'm sorry but I have to take issue with your maintenance regimen. NEVER changing hydraulic fluids on a nearly 9 year old motorcycle?!?! That is EXTREMELY bad form. I'm surprised your brakes work worth a crap at all. Lord knows what kind of mucky goo your fluid is and what dirt and/or corrosion is present in your system. Yikes! Most of us replace fluids every other year, some every year, and some less infrequent than that. But NINE years? :blink:

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Hmmm, I probably knew that. I have no valid excuse. But I'm sure I justified it by figuring that I don't change the brake fluid on my car every year. or every 2 years. or every 9 years. Do you? Probably also certain the response will be that because there is less fluid in a motorcycle system, the concentration of contaminants will be higher. Don't know about that.

In a previous life (the one in which I was a better preventative motorcycle maintenance owner), when I would flush the hydraulic systems, I observed the clutch fluid would be much dirtier than the brake fluid. I figured that this was because of the effective "throw" of the clutch fluid and because of the relative number of cycles the clutch fluid goes through compared to the brake fluid. So I've always felt the clutch fluid sees more active duty.

In any case, I have no idea how long this condition has existed on my bike. I always figured that the ABS was there if I ever needed it. I am of the opinion that relying on ABS dulls the senses (I'm sure THAT statement will prompt replies ) and since I ride several bikes, none of which has ABS, I have got in the habit of trying to NOT engage the ABS, but instead to go up to the edge of traction myself. Therefore, this condition could have existed for years.

As most of my life's experiences have shown, I am absolutely sure that the potential expense others in this string have quoted will pale in comparison to the estimate I get from Roseville Yamaha. In my world, if others spend $1200, MY cost will be closer to $2,000 .

Which begs the question; should I use this pending expense as part of the story I tell to convince the sig other that I really need a new bike?

rcsnclh said:

Hmmm, I probably knew that. I have no valid excuse. But I'm sure I justified it by figuring that I don't change the brake fluid on my car every year. or every 2 years. or every 9 years. Do you?

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Yes. Yes, I do. Parts are less expensive on most cars than motorcycles and they are larger and less sensitive to minor issues, but the brake fluid does attract moisture and that eventually results in sticky calipers and general corrosion in the system.

rcsnclh said:

...Which begs the question; should I use this pending expense as part of the story I tell to convince the sig other that I really need a new bike?

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No, I would familarize myself and practice maintenance on this FJR...once this is down pat, get a new bike and use this one as a spare for parts...or for when out of town riding buddies visit.

rcsnclh said:

As most of my life's experiences have shown, I am absolutely sure that the potential expense others in this string have quoted will pale in comparison to the estimate I get from Roseville Yamaha. In my world, if others spend $1200, MY cost will be closer to $2,000

.

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Just a thought...Capitol Yamaha has always matched the best internet price on parts for me, and while their mechanic isn't Zac, he is a pretty straight shooter and competent. You might try taking a parts price to them, and getting an estimate. The part alone is $1043 from Ron Ayers. While they will match that, the tax and labor costs anywhere will easily take that to $1400.

Hope you get it worked out. I didn't read the whole thread,so did anyone direct to to Ionbeam's great post on "Test and Maintain your ABS System"? You should try doing the diagnostic and system activation described in that post first.

rcsnclh said:

But I'm sure I justified it by figuring that I don't change the brake fluid on my car every year. or every 2 years. or every 9 years. Do you? Probably also certain the response will be that because there is less fluid in a motorcycle system, the concentration of contaminants will be higher. Don't know about that.

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Interestingly enough, the service schedule for my 2001 VW is adamant about having the brake fluid flushed every 24 months.

rcsnclh said:

I don't change the brake fluid on my car every year. or every 2 years. or every 9 years. Do you?

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yep - no less than every 24 months. hydraulic fluid is very hygroscopic (attracts water). leaving it unserviced will lead to costly repairs as well as degraded performance. i've seen people completely lose their brakes/clutch at higher altitudes because they didn't do routine services. at lower elevations i've seen brakes lock up as the fluid heated under use and the water expanded in the lines.

it's cheap/easy to do and costly/dangerous to ignore.

should I use this pending expense as part of the story I tell to convince the sig other that I really need a new bike?

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only if you don't pawn off the dangerous condition of the current bike to someone else. a malfunctioning safety system should be fixed before the sale or the price discounted to offset the repair for the buyer. as the seller, your ethics should make it a zero-sum game.

only if you don't pawn off the dangerous condition of the current bike to someone else. a malfunctioning safety system should be fixed before the sale or the price discounted to offset the repair for the buyer. as the seller, your ethics should make it a zero-sum game.

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Yes, I thought of this as soon as I hit send. I would not be able to sleep knowing I had sent the bike to someone else with a problem. I would definitely tell them about it and reduce the price accordingly. In all actuality, I've been looking at other bikes for awhile but can not find anything I would rather have than my trusty 04. Plus I don't ride enough to justify a new ride. The closest thing I would consider is a Concours, but for the cost I'm not sure I would be getting anything better than what I have now. And fixing the brakes is relatively cheap compared to the cost of something new.

Thanks all for the advice and comments. I will be trying the diagnostics prior to taking it to the dealer for their review.

You may want to spend a few minutes reading through this topic

It does tend to drag on a little but I'm sure it covers your situation exactly. You could also PM the OP for that topic and see if he has any words of advice on carrying out the repair yourself.

Don

Ok, as expected, you are all correct and I am out some serious coin. Zak and the guys at Roseville Yamaha went through every single possibility/diagnostic, completely flushed the system, consulted with Yamaha Tech, and lo and behold, frozen solenoid. Lesson learned, change your brake fluid regularly and also cycle the ABS every once in a while. Final price still undetermined, but the cost quoted for the solenoid was right around $1,000. I expect $1,400 - $1,600 total.

Lessons learned;

- Just because your ABS lights don't indicate a problem doesn't mean that your ABS is working correctly, or at all. I suggest trying to lock the rear wheel at a safe speed to make sure your unit still works.

- If yours still works, and you haven't changed fluids recently, it would be a wise investment to do it, even if you pay to have it done professionally. As the numbers above show, you will still be $$$ ahead.

There's really no need to 'lock up your brakes' to test the ABS. Just buy the "Yamaha ABS Test Coupler P/N 90890-03149" and use it as detailed in Ionbeam's original post referenced above.

Don

rcsnclh said:

Ok, as expected, you are all correct and I am out some serious coin. Zak and the guys at Roseville Yamaha went through every single possibility/diagnostic, completely flushed the system, consulted with Yamaha Tech, and lo and behold, frozen solenoid. Lesson learned, change your brake fluid regularly and also cycle the ABS every once in a while. Final price still undetermined, but the cost quoted for the solenoid was right around $1,000. I expect $1,400 - $1,600 total.

Lessons learned;

- Just because your ABS lights don't indicate a problem doesn't mean that your ABS is working correctly, or at all. I suggest trying to lock the rear wheel at a safe speed to make sure your unit still works.

- If yours still works, and you haven't changed fluids recently, it would be a wise investment to do it, even if you pay to have it done professionally. As the numbers above show, you will still be $$$ ahead.

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You should read the forum more often. I can't tell you how many times I have ranted on about how peeps should activate BOTH front and rear ABS on somewhat regular basis. I'm surprised you had yours repaired. I would have just kept it a 'no rear ABS' FJR. That is pricey!

Donal said:

There's really no need to 'lock up your brakes' to test the ABS. Just buy the "Yamaha ABS Test Coupler P/N 90890-03149" and use it as detailed in Ionbeam's original post referenced above.

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If you read that thread in it's entirety you would know that the "Yamaha ABS Test Coupler P/N 90890-03149" was discontinued quite some time ago and hasn't been available. But later in the thread several options are given on how to do the test. Definitely a good idea and now part of my regular regimen.

Donal said:

There's really no need to 'lock up your brakes' to test the ABS. Just buy the "Yamaha ABS Test Coupler P/N 90890-03149" and use it as detailed in Ionbeam's original post referenced above.

If you read that thread in it's entirety you would know that the "Yamaha ABS Test Coupler P/N 90890-03149" was discontinued quite some time ago and hasn't been available. But later in the thread several options are given on how to do the test. Definitely a good idea and now part of my regular regimen.

Click to expand...

Strange - they still appear to be available from here also available from the FJ Club in the UK

Don

Donal said:

Donal said:

There's really no need to 'lock up your brakes' to test the ABS. Just buy the "Yamaha ABS Test Coupler P/N 90890-03149" and use it as detailed in Ionbeam's original post referenced above.

If you read that thread in it's entirety you would know that the "Yamaha ABS Test Coupler P/N 90890-03149" was discontinued quite some time ago and hasn't been available. But later in the thread several options are given on how to do the test. Definitely a good idea and now part of my regular regimen.

Click to expand...

Strange - they still appear to be available from here also available from the FJ Club in the UK

Don

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Every time someone has tried to purchase one it hasn't been available. I would be surprised if you can find one anywhere in North America.