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Another Ignition Failure


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#1 Barabus

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 08:45 PM

Well, it happened to me on my 2006 FJR today at 18,500 miles. My wife and I were out for a short ride. Gassed up the bike and grabbed a quick bite. Jean was half way out of the parking lot on her Kawi when I figured that my bike was dead. Not the kick stand kill switch, not the red button, just no power. Luckily, I had been with DCarver when his bike died in Death Valley. No service has been recently performed on the bike. Only a single detachable key in the ignition and I do not lock the front wheel. I guessed it was the ignition and not the battery or main fuse. Worked the key for about 5 minutes and got the gauges to sweep. Zip tied the key down and got the bike to run 5 miles to my house. I will talk to the dealer tomorrow and let everyone know my fate.

I will search for the other theards, but at this point I feel that this should be reported to the NHTSA asap. This needs to be recalled, someone could die at most or get standed at least.

Edit- filed my complaint with NHTSA- Link for filing a complaint below. This is the first time I have filed this type of complaint, but it could save someone from being stranded or from something worse. Can you image passsing on a moutain road and having complete loss of power?

Link to NHTSA complaint

Edited- see post #6 for a compilation of ignition failures among FJR forum members having a Gen II bike.
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#2 03HiYoSilver

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 08:57 PM

Barabus,
Sorry to hear about that...at least you had your emergency kit on hand or at least part of it.

Good luck with your repair.

#3 TriggerT

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 03:04 AM

Just wondering if you had loosened the factory original zip ties prior to this happening? I checked mine when I started to hear about people having problems, and they were tight as the strings on a guitar. I cut off the factory ties, added a little bit of slack on the wires, and tied them off again. Sorry to hear this happened to you, but at least you weren't too far from home.

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#4 Barabus

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 03:26 AM

QUOTE(TriggerT @ Sep 17 2007, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just wondering if you had loosened the factory original zip ties prior to this happening? I checked mine when I started to hear about people having problems, and they were tight as the strings on a guitar. I cut off the factory ties, added a little bit of slack on the wires, and tied them off again. Sorry to hear this happened to you, but at least you weren't too far from home.


No, I did not do that. IMHO, the jury is still out on the effectiveness of that fix. The wires are soldered onto the ignition PC board WITHOUT benefit of a choke for the wire harness. Maybe the tight tiedown acts to replace the choke? Maybe I would have only gotten 1x,xxx miles (less than current) without the tie? I cannot believe that a bare solder joint of a wire to a PC board can be all that durable. We need a choke remedy for this problem. Of course this must be verified when the dealer removes the ignition. However, I think by pressing down the key, in fact I pressed the whole ignition onto the wires and that got me home.

As a side note, my factory warranty expired on 8/23/07. I will let everyone know whether or not the Western Service Contract 60 month warranty is any good. I read the contact including fine print and it seems like I just might be covered. Cross your fingers, I am sure it will be an uphill battle!
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#5 Bob Hughes

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 03:56 AM

That issue of tie downs and a short lead has been addressed on the 2007, there are no tie downs and a long wiring harness but no choke point. Just to let you know that Yamaha is aware of the problem and fixing it on the line. Sorry for your problem though.
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#6 Barabus

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 04:30 AM

Well, cannot sleep because I am worked up about this so I compiled a list of Gen II (2006+) Ignition Failures as reported on this board-

Axeman
Dcarver (20K miles)
Cota (14K miles)
Rayban
Airboss
FJR Gary (24K miles)
Calabash (18K miles)
Smoke FJR06 ???
Indian Scout
Barabus (18.4K miles)
Turbo Dave
Fjrrider
Inlaw1 (12.6K miles)
Gadi
Cartfj40

Also, here are the links to other accounts of this problem-

Axeman's thread

DCarver's thread

Inlaw's ignition failure

Cota's Ignition failure

edited on 9/18/07
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#7 Tinker

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 04:55 AM

QUOTE(Barabus @ Sep 17 2007, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, cannot sleep because I am worked up about this so I compiled a list of Ignition Failures as reported on this board-

Axeman
Dcarver
Cota
Rayban
Airboss
FJR Gary
Calabash
Smoke FJR06 ???
Indian Scout
Barabus

Also, here are the links to other accounts of this problem-

Axeman's thread

DCarver's thread


Barabus: Add Tinker to the list. '03, with 80,000. Total snut off.

Thankisfor the compilation

Tinker
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#8 dcarver

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 07:02 AM

EDITED to fix lousy cut and paste formatting from email..

I lodged a complaint with the NHTSA, got a resonse and added a response. It's cut and pasted below, with personal info edited out (hey, it is the web you know?!)

Also, please read my last paragraph, my action to post the complaint was not, is not, and should not be viewed as bashing Yamaha. My personal opinion is that this failure will happen sometime to someone resulting in personal injury or even death and needs be fixed via recall. IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada rolleyes.gif

-------------------------------
I lodged a complaint with the NHTSA, got a resonse and added a response. It's cut and pasted below, with personal info edited out (hey, it is the web you know?!)

Also, please read my last paragraph, my action to post the complaint was not, is not, and should not be viewed as bashing Yamaha. My personal opinion is that this failure will happen sometime to someone resulting in personal injury or even death and needs be fixed via recall. IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada

-------------------------------
Hi Don,

Thanks for reporting to the National Highway traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) on the ignition switch problem with your Yamaha motorcycle.

Can you take a picture or two of the ignition switch and the wires going into it? If possible, show how the wires are stretched or could be stretched. If you know of any internet postings on this exact issue, please forward me the links. If you have posted there, please let me know your alias. If you have a copy of the repair invoice, please scan and email me a copy.

Please provide the vehicle identification number (VIN).

Thanks very much!

Steve Chan
Safety Defects EngineerOffice of Defects Investigation/NHTSA
(202) 366-8537


Hi Steve, Sorry it took so long to get back; hopefully the case is still open.

Here are some links of others who have had issues, all derived from http://www.fjrforum.comhttp://www.fjrforum....gnition switchhttp://www.fjrforum....gnition switchhttp://www.fjrforum....gnition switchhttp://www.fjrforum....gnition switchhttp://www.fjrforum....showtopic=21143my post
http://www.fjrforum....showtopic=17179http://www.fjrforum....gnition switchhttp://www.fjrforum....gnition switchhttp://www.fjrforum....gnition switch
This post shows the best pix I have of the ignition switch assembly. http://www.fjrforum....showtopic=17179.

To view for yourself, go to any Yamaha dealer and ask to look at a 2006/2007 FJR1300A or AE model, then look just under the switch at how tightly the wires are stretched. It really doesn't take a mechanical engineer to figure this one out. My VIN is xxyyzz, and I'll get a jpeg of the repair order to you next week. To date, I don't believe any fjrforum member has crashed as a result of loss of power. IMHO, it's just a matter of time. Please read my post for a detailed write-up describing my experience. One last thought - Yamaha has been very good at replacing these switches under warranty. In fact, Yamaha has been excellent in supporting their product with various other issues too. The only reason I contacted the DOT is that I believe this problem to be in a 'life threatening' status.

Sincerely,
dcarver

-----------------------------------------------


Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
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#9 dcarver

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 07:11 AM

QUOTE(Bob Hughes @ Sep 17 2007, 04:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That issue of tie downs and a short lead has been addressed on the 2007, there are no tie downs and a long wiring harness but no choke point. Just to let you know that Yamaha is aware of the problem and fixing it on the line. Sorry for your problem though.


Barry - I'd check to see if the 07 switch, with longer leads, will plug n' play in your 06.
Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
Posted Image

#10 Barabus

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 02:01 PM

Okay, bike is at Beach Yamaha and it seems that my Western Service Contract (3rd party warranty) will cover it or most of it. The part is being airmailed out today from the East Coast. According to two yamaha service managers, there is no way to ensure key compatibility with the new lock. I did take the key code with me and the service manager did call Yamaha. It seems that Axeman just got lucky on the key match. As to the 2007 part, I did not see this post prior to getting out the door or I would have done so. I have requested the part back and will provide pictures.

As to the NHTSA complaint, I filed one this morning with all the details that I had at the time. Like Don has said, I am not trying to bash Yamaha, but instead trying to warn forum members about this problem. Someone will get injured as a result of this. It just hasn't happened yet. Yamaha should do a service update or a recall in my opinion. They will protect themselves in the long run.
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#11 Calabash

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 04:34 PM

I also filed a complaint with the NHTSA (thanks for the link) with a hope and a prayer that no one gets hurt before they do a recall. Does anyone know how many people need to file a complaint before they will do something? I suspect a lot more than the guys on our list.


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#12 dcarver

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 05:49 PM

Barabus, I bet you already know this but the innards of the failed switch can be moved to the new switch, so you can use the same key. My shop had to use a locksmith, but now that it's all done and over, I'm glad I have one key match everything.
Walked away Posted ImagePosted Image Is it really crashing if you don't fall down?--
I wouldn't change a fucking thing; I've lived hard, played hard, and I ain't done yet. I've paid some severe penalties along the way, but the rewards have been so much greater; even if for just have participating in the game of life with utmost abandon. It's not who rides the furthest in a day, but rather in a lifetime. CBA member #1, IBA #31845 and very proud of both.
Posted Image

#13 Barabus

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE(dcarver @ Sep 17 2007, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Barabus, I bet you already know this but the innards of the failed switch can be moved to the new switch, so you can use the same key. My shop had to use a locksmith, but now that it's all done and over, I'm glad I have one key match everything.


Don,

I thought you re-keyed the side bags and gas tank? Well, I might be one of those Gen II owners with 2 keys for awhile. I can almost guarantee this ends in a recall. You were the high mileage leader and the others are clustering alround 18k miles from my rough estimates. Thanks for the info. I am hoping that the new part will be a 2007 switch. I will let everybody know Wednesday or Thurday.
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#14 Indian Scout

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE(Barabus @ Sep 17 2007, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As to the NHTSA complaint, I filed one this morning with all the details that I had at the time. Like Don has said, I am not trying to bash Yamaha, but instead trying to warn forum members about this problem. Someone will get injured as a result of this. It just hasn't happened yet. Yamaha should do a service update or a recall in my opinion. They will protect themselves in the long run.

It seems to me that this failure happens only while the bike is being started. I haven't heard of it happening to anyone while riding.


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2007 Yamaha, FJR 1300A
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#15 TheAxeman

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 05:45 AM

It happened to me while riding....

#16 Inlaw1

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 06:12 AM

It happened to me while riding....
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#17 Barabus

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 07:19 AM

QUOTE(Indian Scout @ Sep 17 2007, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Barabus @ Sep 17 2007, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As to the NHTSA complaint, I filed one this morning with all the details that I had at the time. Like Don has said, I am not trying to bash Yamaha, but instead trying to warn forum members about this problem. Someone will get injured as a result of this. It just hasn't happened yet. Yamaha should do a service update or a recall in my opinion. They will protect themselves in the long run.

It seems to me that this failure happens only while the bike is being started. I haven't heard of it happening to anyone while riding.


Happened to Don Carver while riding! Almost stranded him in Death Valley. It will happen to someone as they are making a right into traffic, merging, passing, or ect.
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#18 SkooterG

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 08:30 AM

Mang, sorry to hear about this Barry.

What's up with you peeps from the People's Republik? (and NY, and TX, and.................)

Did you try cycling your switch on/off a bazillion times to see if it came back to life? After getting it back home, you continued to have problems?

Hope it all works out for ya.
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#19 Barabus

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 12:03 PM

QUOTE(SkooterG @ Sep 18 2007, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mang, sorry to hear about this Barry.

What's up with you peeps from the People's Republik? (and NY, and TX, and.................)

Did you try cycling your switch on/off a bazillion times to see if it came back to life? After getting it back home, you continued to have problems?

Hope it all works out for ya.




They just don't make them as good as they used to. Of course, I turned the switch a billion times when I was stranded. It seemed to generate a lot of engine codes as the service engine light came on if it did anything at all. I really think this is a problem with the Gen II bikes that you guys did not have to contend with. I predict my compiled list of Gen II ignition failures to grow and grow as more Gen II bikes hit the 20K miles mark.

15 confirmed failures so far among forum members!! See list above in post #6.
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#20 cota95

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 01:17 PM

QUOTE(Barabus @ Sep 17 2007, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay, bike is at Beach Yamaha and it seems that my Western Service Contract (3rd party warranty) will cover it or most of it. The part is being airmailed out today from the East Coast. According to two yamaha service managers, there is no way to ensure key compatibility with the new lock. I did take the key code with me and the service manager did call Yamaha. It seems that Axeman just got lucky on the key match. As to the 2007 part, I did not see this post prior to getting out the door or I would have done so. I have requested the part back and will provide pictures.

As to the NHTSA complaint, I filed one this morning with all the details that I had at the time. Like Don has said, I am not trying to bash Yamaha, but instead trying to warn forum members about this problem. Someone will get injured as a result of this. It just hasn't happened yet. Yamaha should do a service update or a recall in my opinion. They will protect themselves in the long run.

Yamaha PAID to have the new ignition switch keyed to my old key. This makes a whole lot more sense than rekeying everything else (seat,bags,gas tank,trunk)

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