More DMG nonsense

[wfooshee]

Well the races may be same day coverage starting in July, but they will also have a series of pace bikes rather than a pace car. DMG has announced that Buell is the official safety bike of AMA Pro Racing, and pace laps and caution laps will be led by a Buell motorcycle. As for handling wave-bys, there will also be 2 Buell "chase bikes" whose responsibility it will be to match the leaders to the pace bike.

So since rules concessions couldn't keep it up front, let's put lights on it and make everybody follow it. And they'll probably make the crowd listen to hourly announcements about the pace bikes, but they probably can't say "pace bike," they'll have to call it the "Buell Safety Bike" by rule. Kind of like putting "Daytona" in a class name. Completely meaningless, but required by law. Buell Buell Buell Buell Buell Buell Buell all day long on the PA and the TV set. Phuque DMG, Phuque Buell!

Superbike Planet reports on "speculation" in the Miller paddock that Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki are packing up and going home at the end of the season. I wouldn't blame them at all. But then DMG "wins" by getting to call it the Buell Cup or some such nonsense.

If DMG wasn't so dead-set on putting an A-murr-i-cen bike out front they'd realize that a much smarter move, if they had to have a "safety bike," would be to arrange with the manufacturers to provide such bikes at the events they sponsor, such as Suzukis at the Suzuki Superbike Showdown, Hondas at the Honda Superbike Challenge, etc. No, let's instead completely alienate everybody not from this continent and give them all a big raspberry.

 

[GunMD]

Correct, and well said. Lets not forget about the Motorcycle Industry Council's (MIC) chatter about creating their own series last season at the height of the drama with the DMG takeover. It's entirely possible that those talks are still ongoing.

Phuck Buell.

 

[Randy]

Wow...I guess I'm in the minority here.

OK...here goes...

First off, there is not currently, and never was, any proof that there was any support whatsoever for a separate series. Yes, there was chatter and threats, but, nothing happened and nothing is expected to happen. Take 'speculation' on Dean's World with a grain of salt. There was also talk of rumors of Ben Spies signing with Suzuki MotoGP which were refuted during an interview where Ben said he wants to stay with Yamaha. To think that another group (MIC?) could start a series from scratch and have it eclipse the AMA series doesn't seem logical to me. The capital investment would be significant and where would this money come from? The manufacturers that are already cutting costs across the board (how's that Kawasaki MotoGP effort going?)?

Second, why phuck Buell? I personally don't have a problem with an organization (AMA) supporting, and getting support from, an American company (Buell).

Third, is the 'nonsense' the fact that there will be a pace bike instead of a pace car (ok, safety bike/car, sorry) or the fact that it will be a Buell? To me, having an Accord coupe or a pick'em up truck as a safety car was nonsense. I don't see the problem with bikes pacing bikes. To say that this will be a problem is pure speculation. We already know that there were problems when they used a car, so, how much worse could it be? Does it really make that much of a difference if they call it the safety bike or the Buell safety bike? I'm sure Buell is paying $ to have the rights as the exclusive pace bike of the series and I have no problem with them getting recognition for supporting and putting money into the sport unlike other manufacturers who may be criticizing the sport and trying to break up pro roadracing in the US.

Fourth, correct - there were rules concessions that allowed the Buell into Daytona sportbike, but, there was also a follow up rule which mandated a higher weight minimum on the Buell (which, was relatively meaningless as none of the Buells were bordering the previously established weight minimum). Yes, they came out of the gate quick, but, they are not dominating the series.

Fifth, we don't, and may not ever, know if AMA talked with the other manufacturers about possibly using them as safety bikes at other events.

I fully admit that there were bugs/wrinkles with the changing of the guard with AMA racing, but, there has been some falling on the swords (superbike class was put in place when there wasn't one initially, racing will now be shown on same day rather than 2-3 weeks later) and it's not the doom and gloom that everyone thought it would be. Plus, the fact that the switchover took place during one of the worst financial environments that has been seen in many years was just dumb luck and it wouldn't surprise me if groups used a public lynching of the new AMA regime as an excuse to hide financial problems. When you stand back and look at what has taken place, attendance is pretty good, fan feedback at the races has been very good (pit walks with access to the bikes and riders has been very well received as has the mandatory autograph sessions with the riders), and, for the most part, the racing has been pretty good.

Standing by ready to catch the daggers that will certainly be thrown

 

[Auburn]

Randy, well stated. Although I am not a Buell fan, more than likely, the other manufacturers will complain because they got beat to the punch.

I think the racing has been closer and more competitive in most classes this year. I think they (DMG) has done a better job than the AMA in that regard.

No daggers here.

 

[wfooshee]

It's the promotion of Buell uber alles that gets my goat. Buell has been trying for years to build an American sportbike, without great success (competitively speaking.) Now they and DMG seem to be turning the AMA Pro Racing series into a Buell marketing promotion. DMG has not since the beginning been very receptive to the needs of the Japanese manufacturers, and very grudgingly put the liter bikes back in, although more like Superstock than Superbike. They still want Daytona Sportbikes to be the premier class.

Back to Buell, and pace bikes. There just isn't any place for rolling starts, rolling re-starts, and paced parade laps in my opinion. At the Barber event the Superbikes ran first on Saturday afternoon, and they came off the grid and took a lap behind the pace car. Fans went crazy, yay, bikes on track!!! Then the pace car led them back to the grid, they shut off and walked away. It was over an hour before anything else happened. The fans went crazy because they thought the race was about to go, not because they got to see a parade!!! Granted the Superbikes are still a standing start, but DMG has stated that they want to change that.

If they have to have a pace bike or pace car, I'd rather see others participate along sponsor lines, like I said before. But I'd rather not see pace cars or bikes at all.

I agree the chance of an alternate series is slim to none, and that the rumor-mongering and speculation mentioned is just taht: guessing and gossiping. I don't agree that the Japanese (and European) manufacturers can't just up and take their toys home if they feel like it.

And the racing has been pretty fun to watch, actually. I agree there that for the most part, they've had a good show. Sportbikes have been especially competitive.

 

[Randy]

It's the promotion of Buell uber alles that gets my goat. Buell has been trying for years to build an American sportbike, without great success (competitively speaking.) Now they and DMG seem to be turning the AMA Pro Racing series into a Buell marketing promotion. DMG has not since the beginning been very receptive to the needs of the Japanese manufacturers, and very grudgingly put the liter bikes back in, although more like Superstock than Superbike. They still want Daytona Sportbikes to be the premier class.

Regarding promotion of Buell, I'm just not seeing the problem. If a company wants to throw $$$ at promotion, what is AMA to say? 'No thanks - we don't want your money'. Unless you're working behind the scenese, there is no way to know if the same opportunities were given to, and subsequently rejected from, the Japanese manufacturers. Other than using them for the safety bikes, what other ways is the AMA (DMG no longer exists - DMG became AMA) turning the series into a Buell marketing promotion?

Regarding superbikes, depends on who you believe. AMA originally wasn't going to have superbike. Then said they would. Met with manufacturers to discuss rules. They said, 'no, we want the rules that were originally going to be in place'. Then AMA agreed. Then, they said 'no, we want world superbike rules'. Then, with 1 or 2 slight modifications, AMA agreed. Then they said 'no, this won't work - we quit'. Then, AMA said they're going to do it with the current rules and manufacturers could either be in or out. Yamaha and Suzuki in, Honda and Kawi out (but, Honda is in using all of the same factory resources, just running under the Corona banner). Kawi is still in for the 600s, but, not superbikes. Again, depending on who you beleive, Kawi is either not in because a) they lost funding, or, b ) they couldn't get the rules they wanted. Maybe I have my order of events wrong, but, regardless, AMA repeatedly gave in to what was being asked for and got rejected.

Back to Buell, and pace bikes. There just isn't any place for rolling starts, rolling re-starts, and paced parade laps in my opinion. At the Barber event the Superbikes ran first on Saturday afternoon, and they came off the grid and took a lap behind the pace car. Fans went crazy, yay, bikes on track!!! Then the pace car led them back to the grid, they shut off and walked away. It was over an hour before anything else happened. The fans went crazy because they thought the race was about to go, not because they got to see a parade!!! Granted the Superbikes are still a standing start, but DMG has stated that they want to change that.

Sounds like a scheduling issue and nothing to do with Buell, rolling starts, or pace bikes. I couldn't care less if it was rolling starts or standing starts, but, I do like the idea of keeping bikes rolling on the track as much as possible and I would be very happy if I never have to view another Scott Russell-type incident on the starting line.

If they have to have a pace bike or pace car, I'd rather see others participate along sponsor lines, like I said before. But I'd rather not see pace cars or bikes at all.

I don't disagree, but, we don't know what went on behind the scenes and if the same opportunity was or wasn't presented to the other manufacturers.

I agree the chance of an alternate series is slim to none, and that the rumor-mongering and speculation mentioned is just taht: guessing and gossiping. I don't agree that the Japanese (and European) manufacturers can't just up and take their toys home if they feel like it.

Correct - they can take their toys and go home if they wish and stand by as the other manufacturers are out there in the spotlight.

And the racing has been pretty fun to watch, actually. I agree there that for the most part, they've had a good show. Sportbikes have been especially competitive.

Damn the rolling starts!!!!

 

[MotorToad]

Wow...I guess I'm in the minority here.OK...here goes...

First off, there is not currently, and never was, any proof that there was any support whatsoever for a separate series. Yes, there was chatter and threats, but, nothing happened and nothing is expected to happen. Take 'speculation' on Dean's World with a grain of salt. There was also talk of rumors of Ben Spies signing with Suzuki MotoGP which were refuted during an interview where Ben said he wants to stay with Yamaha. To think that another group (MIC?) could start a series from scratch and have it eclipse the AMA series doesn't seem logical to me. The capital investment would be significant and where would this money come from? The manufacturers that are already cutting costs across the board (how's that Kawasaki MotoGP effort going?)?

They had an official (and very bad) media PR department. If they hadn't gone about it so poorly I think they would have moved ahead with it.
As an aside, when have future contract talks *ever* not been refuted by the parties involved? Spies wasn't supposed to be at Yamaha to begin with last year, according to the news. The only place you'll see more blatant lies about next season is college football coaches.

Second, why phuck Buell? I personally don't have a problem with an organization (AMA) supporting, and getting support from, an American company (Buell).

It's supposed to be a racing sanctioning body, if its relations to one manufacturer appears to be a little too buddy-buddy then it's hard for us to think that the racing's fair. Especially when the racing already not fair... We're already peeved over safety cars, and we're peeved over Buells having almost twice the displacement. This isn't a wise move if they want to keep fans.

Third, is the 'nonsense' the fact that there will be a pace bike instead of a pace car (ok, safety bike/car, sorry) or the fact that it will be a Buell? To me, having an Accord coupe or a pick'em up truck as a safety car was nonsense. I don't see the problem with bikes pacing bikes. To say that this will be a problem is pure speculation. We already know that there were problems when they used a car, so, how much worse could it be? Does it really make that much of a difference if they call it the safety bike or the Buell safety bike? I'm sure Buell is paying $ to have the rights as the exclusive pace bike of the series and I have no problem with them getting recognition for supporting and putting money into the sport unlike other manufacturers who may be criticizing the sport and trying to break up pro roadracing in the US.

Rolling starts and pace cars are the realm of the dipshit TV shows they call nascar and IRL. We that love motorcycle racing don't want anything to do with that crap, plain and simple. We're racers and race fans, not mindless dolts watching racing because <s>The Gong Show</s> American Idle isn't on.

Fourth, correct - there were rules concessions that allowed the Buell into Daytona sportbike, but, there was also a follow up rule which mandated a higher weight minimum on the Buell (which, was relatively meaningless as none of the Buells were bordering the previously established weight minimum). Yes, they came out of the gate quick, but, they are not dominating the series.

The weight thing was a very hollow (and IMO insulting to knowledgeable fans) move. The bikes aren't presently dominating, no, but put one under Hacking and see where it goes. Eslick's a good rider but IMO he's the only one on a Buell worth an AMA seat.

Fifth, we don't, and may not ever, know if AMA talked with the other manufacturers about possibly using them as safety bikes at other events.
I fully admit that there were bugs/wrinkles with the changing of the guard with AMA racing, but, there has been some falling on the swords (superbike class was put in place when there wasn't one initially, racing will now be shown on same day rather than 2-3 weeks later) and it's not the doom and gloom that everyone thought it would be. Plus, the fact that the switchover took place during one of the worst financial environments that has been seen in many years was just dumb luck and it wouldn't surprise me if groups used a public lynching of the new AMA regime as an excuse to hide financial problems. When you stand back and look at what has taken place, attendance is pretty good, fan feedback at the races has been very good (pit walks with access to the bikes and riders has been very well received as has the mandatory autograph sessions with the riders), and, for the most part, the racing has been pretty good.

Standing by ready to catch the daggers that will certainly be thrown

I bashed the AMA a lot since '03 when I first saw them in person, and I saw how amateurishly they put on an event. I've worked at AMA, WERA, CCS, AHRMA, F-USA, and possibly others I've forgotten, plus ALMS, Bland-Am, SCCA, and many other cage racing orgs, and I had never seen a group so unable to make a correct decision as the AMA, until DMG bought them.

 

[Crash Cash]

There just isn't any place for rolling starts, rolling re-starts, and paced parade laps in my opinion.

Amen. My issue with DMG is they don't care about safety. Rolling starts are dangerous on bikes. They also insisted on having the flagman in the NASCAR tower at Daytona and several riders complained they couldn't see the flags. MotoGP rules say the flagman has to be at ground level for that very reason, because it caused a fatal crash in the past.

The pace car has also confused things several times. This is why there was so many disqualifications at Daytona, because of the confusion, and people passed when they shouldn't have. And confusion in racing gets people killed too.

DMG's response: "Fuck off kids, you're bothering me. We run NASCAR and we know how to do racing."

So, as far as I'm concerned there's MotoGP, WSBK, BSB.... and that's it. I no longer go to the races at Daytona. I don't watch the coverage on Speed because I don't want to encourage DMG or AMA. I'll read Road Racing World when it comes out.

Also, I don't like their attitude towards racers. They appear to think racers are to do all sorts of promotional stuff and have sunshine and rainbows coming out of their asses. Racers are there to race. If they have time for a autograph session, that's fine, but if they're in the trailer healing from a crash or in the pits helping set up their bike, then that's fine too.

If they suspend Mat Mladin for any reason, I will cancel my AMA membership and write them a letter explaining why. I'm irritated enough that my money's funding this circus, and I won't condone that sort of targeted retribution at all.