Will Stuck TPS stop bike from Starting

[Lyrics36]

Looking for knowledge.

I have not been able to ride for the last 5 weeks due to surgery on my foot.

Today, I went out to start the bike for a short ride to check out how my surgery has progressed and my 2005 FJR(abs) wouldn't start. Bike smelled flooded almost immediately.

I looked at the instrument panel and error code 16 came up which I then traced to "Throttle Positioning Sensor Stuck" I noticed their is a recall on this and I doubt the previous owner had this repair completed as I bought it with only 3,000 miles on it.

Regardless, my question is 2fold:

1. Would a stuck TPS stop the FJR from starting? and

2. Is there a way to unstick it so I can drive it to the dealer rather than have to rent a trailer and haul it?

Any advise is welcome.

Thanks

 

[ionbeam]

1. The TPS can't stick. The TPS fails over time because the resistor material wears out in the areas where the throttle is normally positioned, such as the physical location when the engine is running between 3k-4k RPM and sometimes at the idle location.

2. Since it can't be stuck, you can't unstick it.

(3.) For some reason all years of FJRs sometimes don't start with your exact symptoms, treat it like a flooded engine and it will start. Hold the throttle wide open and crank in 3-5 second bursts with a pause in between and it almost always starts after several/many tries.

Go to this thread and it will tell you how to check the TPS using the diAG display to read TPS values.

Go to this link and see the guts of a TPS.

 

[dcarver]

Sir Ionbeam to the rescue, again! :yahoo:

 

[Lyrics36]

Ionbeam:

Thank you for your reply. I am somewhat (actually very) non-mechanical about this so am still somewhat confused. I think I understand what you are telling me ... but as I read the links you so thoughtfully provided I found error code 16 reading stuck tps

I assume that simply means failing tps??? Is getting the bike started again going to perhaps clear the code or most likely simply accelerate failure of the tps??

Any clarification and advice is greatly appreciated.

Basically, I am going on a fairly long set of rides this weekend, and am hoping that I won't cause any problems if I wait to fix the problem until I get back on Monday.

Regards,

quote name='dcarver' timestamp='1346715652' post='996897']

Sir Ionbeam to the rescue, again! :yahoo:

 

[SkooterG]

Here it is simple: Odds are approximately 98% that your issue has NOTHING to do with your TPS. FJR starting issues are something altogether different. If your TPS is acting up, you won't see it with hard or no starting, but in various throttle applications. It will usually take a while to go bad, slowly getting worse and worse.

Don't worry about the error code right now! That could be there for a multitude of reasons. Besides a TPS error, it also could mean an issue with your intake air pressure sensor. Regardless, with either it could mean a pinched wire or hose, or just be an anomaly.

When the bike starts again the code will clear from being 'active', but to clear it from 'history' (which you don't really need to do) there is a specific procedure given in the service manual.

Basically, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. Just get the bike started, then ride more and stress less.

 

[Lyrics36]

Here it is simple: Odds are approximately 98% that your issue has NOTHING to do with your TPS. FJR starting issues are something altogether different. If your TPS is acting up, you won't see it with hard or no starting, but in various throttle applications. It will usually take a while to go bad, slowly getting worse and worse.

Don't worry about the error code right now! That could be there for a multitude of reasons. Besides a TPS error, it also could mean an issue with your intake air pressure sensor. Regardless, with either it could mean a pinched wire or hose, or just be an anomaly.

When the bike starts again the code will clear from being 'active', but to clear it from 'history' (which you don't really need to do) there is a specific procedure given in the service manual.

Basically, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. Just get the bike started, then ride more and stress less.

Thank you. Will do.

 

[Lyrics36]

Here it is simple: Odds are approximately 98% that your issue has NOTHING to do with your TPS. FJR starting issues are something altogether different. If your TPS is acting up, you won't see it with hard or no starting, but in various throttle applications. It will usually take a while to go bad, slowly getting worse and worse.

Don't worry about the error code right now! That could be there for a multitude of reasons. Besides a TPS error, it also could mean an issue with your intake air pressure sensor. Regardless, with either it could mean a pinched wire or hose, or just be an anomaly.

When the bike starts again the code will clear from being 'active', but to clear it from 'history' (which you don't really need to do) there is a specific procedure given in the service manual.

Basically, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. Just get the bike started, then ride more and stress less.

Thank you. Will do.

ScooterG and Ionbeam:

Thank you for your help. Well turns out news is bad.

The TPS was burned out and I have less than 50lbs pressure in 2 of the cylinders (thankfully adjacent) :angry2: . I am hoping that it is just a blown headgasket ... I have fixed 2-3 of those in cars of the years. I still need to do some work to find out if it is more than that (rings/valves etc,) but I hope not. Unfortunately, I can't see any sign of oil leakage or seepage to lead me towards a blown head gasket as a certainty but I will hopefully figure out more this week.

 

[ionbeam]

... Well turns out news is bad.

The TPS was burned out and I have less than 50lbs pressure in 2 of the cylinders (thankfully adjacent) . I am hoping that it is just a blown headgasket ...

If the mechanic said that the TPS is responsible for two cylinders having low compression you may want to shop for a different mechanic. I don't believe that the TPS has ever totally failed, it just develops little areas that cause misfire (because the ECU reads this as 20% throttle opening regardless of engine load).

It doesn't really matter if the problem is in the valves or head gasket, the amount of work is just about the same. Hopefully your new mechanic will be able to do a leak-down test and tell you with certainty what the problem is. A few FJRs have been prone to carbon around the valves and some have been susceptible to stuck rings. (Yamaha's Ring Free works wonders for both.)

 

[Lyrics36]

... Well turns out news is bad.

The TPS was burned out and I have less than 50lbs pressure in 2 of the cylinders (thankfully adjacent) . I am hoping that it is just a blown headgasket ...

If the mechanic said that the TPS is responsible for two cylinders having low compression you may want to shop for a different mechanic. I don't believe that the TPS has ever totally failed, it just develops little areas that cause misfire (because the ECU reads this as 20% throttle opening regardless of engine load).

It doesn't really matter if the problem is in the valves or head gasket, the amount of work is just about the same. Hopefully your new mechanic will be able to do a leak-down test and tell you with certainty what the problem is. A few FJRs have been prone to carbon around the valves and some have been susceptible to stuck rings. (Yamaha's Ring Free works wonders for both.)

Ionbeam:

Thanks for advice. I was probably unclear. Mechanic was very definite when he told me that even though the TPS was bad, it should have nothing to do with the low cylinder pressure. Hopefully the leak down test will ascertain exactly where the problem rests. I don't mind valve problems nearly as much as bad rings scoring the cylinders are something along those lines.

You mention misfiring above. When I was trying to start the FJR when the error code came up it misfired for the first time since I bought it 70,000 miles ago. Pretty loud to. Based on my understanding of your post above and my further reading on the matter that would seem to indicate a TPS going bad.

So it looks at this point like I just have to wait for him to get to the leakdown test Tuesday or so.

Rats.

Thank you again for all your advice.

 

[RadioHowie]

70,000 miles could also point an accusing finger at a CCT that has reached the end of its life, letting the cam timing slip by a tooth, which could definitely cause a loud misfire.

Definitely have the mechanic take a look at cam timing and cam chain tensioner's condition.

 

[SkooterG]

How many miles on your FJR? I am really surprised about the cylinder pressures being so low. In fact, I am having trouble believing it. Before your no start issue, was there any problem you were noticing? I would be very skeptical of these readings.

 

[Lyrics36]

How many miles on your FJR? I am really surprised about the cylinder pressures being so low. In fact, I am having trouble believing it. Before your no start issue, was there any problem you were noticing? I would be very skeptical of these readings.

ScooterG:

There is about 72,000 miles give or take on my FJR. While I can't say that specifically there were any issues it does seem to me that it was slightly harder to start (i.e. a couple more turns before it started) and it seemed a slight bit less peppy than for the last month or so at hard acceleration --- although my "butt dyno" could be wrong.

The backfire was the first and only time it has ever backfired since I bought it 3 years ago with 3,006 miles on it. I didn't try to start it again after that happened as I didn't want to compound a problem.

RadioHowie:

CCT never crossed my mind. I will definitely ask about it. I had a timing belt slip a tooth on an old fiat 124 once and had a real loud backfire on that also. I don't know if a timing belt on an old DOHC 124 Spider and a FJR1300 are synonymous but to my uneducated mind seem somewhat analogous.

I'll know more Tuesday.

Regardless after having my Suspension completely redone and the handling having improved to tremendously I am inclined to do whatever is necessary to keep it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions I hopefully will find out more on Tuesday.

Regards.

 

[RadioHowie]

How many miles on your FJR? I am really surprised about the cylinder pressures being so low. In fact, I am having trouble believing it. Before your no start issue, was there any problem you were noticing? I would be very skeptical of these readings.

RadioHowie:

CCT never crossed my mind. I will definitely ask about it. I had a timing belt slip a tooth on an old fiat 124 once and had a real loud backfire on that also. I don't know if a timing belt on an old DOHC 124 Spider and a FJR1300 are synonymous but to my uneducated mind seem somewhat analogous.

I'll know more Tuesday.

Regardless after having my Suspension completely redone and the handling having improved to tremendously I am inclined to do whatever is necessary to keep it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions I hopefully will find out more on Tuesday.

Regards.

Crap-In-A-Hat, I had a 124 Spider too! Talk about a POS!! I loved that POS, even though it cost me THOUSANDS to keep it running! But yeah, a slipped tooth on a DOHC Eyetalian car is 100% analogous to the timing chain slipping on a DOHC FJR. The real issue is, if the CCT is no longer functioning as it should, continued running the bike with a loose cam chain can cause disastrous damage to your engine's top end, as in, crushed valves, damaged valve seats, etc. Be careful!

 

[Lyrics36]

How many miles on your FJR? I am really surprised about the cylinder pressures being so low. In fact, I am having trouble believing it. Before your no start issue, was there any problem you were noticing? I would be very skeptical of these readings.

RadioHowie:

CCT never crossed my mind. I will definitely ask about it. I had a timing belt slip a tooth on an old fiat 124 once and had a real loud backfire on that also. I don't know if a timing belt on an old DOHC 124 Spider and a FJR1300 are synonymous but to my uneducated mind seem somewhat analogous.

I'll know more Tuesday.

Regardless after having my Suspension completely redone and the handling having improved to tremendously I am inclined to do whatever is necessary to keep it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions I hopefully will find out more on Tuesday.

Regards.

Crap-In-A-Hat, I had a 124 Spider too! Talk about a POS!! I loved that POS, even though it cost me THOUSANDS to keep it running! But yeah, a slipped tooth on a DOHC Eyetalian car is 100% analogous to the timing chain slipping on a DOHC FJR. The real issue is, if the CCT is no longer functioning as it should, continued running the bike with a loose cam chain can cause disastrous damage to your engine's top end, as in, crushed valves, damaged valve seats, etc. Be careful!

RadioHowie:

Like you I loved that old (Fix It Again Tony) mobile. The odd thing is, since it was before the age of all the electronics I took the heads off and fixed it myself. I take one look at all the Electronics now and just sort of give up before I start. Ignorance was bliss in my college days. I didn't really realize all the things I could screw up by doing my own work.

I will say though that compared to my 1969 Roots Motor Sunbeam Alpine (the year before Chrysler bought them) that Fiat 124 was pure quality. Frightening thought isn't it?

 

[RadioHowie]

How many miles on your FJR? I am really surprised about the cylinder pressures being so low. In fact, I am having trouble believing it. Before your no start issue, was there any problem you were noticing? I would be very skeptical of these readings.

RadioHowie:

CCT never crossed my mind. I will definitely ask about it. I had a timing belt slip a tooth on an old fiat 124 once and had a real loud backfire on that also. I don't know if a timing belt on an old DOHC 124 Spider and a FJR1300 are synonymous but to my uneducated mind seem somewhat analogous.

I'll know more Tuesday.

Regardless after having my Suspension completely redone and the handling having improved to tremendously I am inclined to do whatever is necessary to keep it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions I hopefully will find out more on Tuesday.

Regards.

Crap-In-A-Hat, I had a 124 Spider too! Talk about a POS!! I loved that POS, even though it cost me THOUSANDS to keep it running! But yeah, a slipped tooth on a DOHC Eyetalian car is 100% analogous to the timing chain slipping on a DOHC FJR. The real issue is, if the CCT is no longer functioning as it should, continued running the bike with a loose cam chain can cause disastrous damage to your engine's top end, as in, crushed valves, damaged valve seats, etc. Be careful!

RadioHowie:

Like you I loved that old (Fix It Again Tony) mobile. The odd thing is, since it was before the age of all the electronics I took the heads off and fixed it myself. I take one look at all the Electronics now and just sort of give up before I start. Ignorance was bliss in my college days. I didn't really realize all the things I could screw up by doing my own work.

Thing about working on the FJR, you don't really have to know anything about the electronics. It's just an engine in a frame. For a fun read, check out my "Motor Removal" thread.

It's one of those "If-I-Can-Do-It, You-Can-Do-It" type of things. If you can turn a wrench, you can do the job.

I will say though that compared to my 1969 Roots Motor Sunbeam Alpine (the year before Chrysler bought them) that Fiat 124 was pure quality. Frightening thought isn't it?

I'd have to take your word for it, except for the funny thing is I replaced my Fiat Spider with a Sunbeam Tiger, the Ford 260 c.i. version of your Alpine, so I'm VERY familiar with the Rootes Group platform.

 

[Lyrics36]

How many miles on your FJR? I am really surprised about the cylinder pressures being so low. In fact, I am having trouble believing it. Before your no start issue, was there any problem you were noticing? I would be very skeptical of these readings.

RadioHowie:

CCT never crossed my mind. I will definitely ask about it. I had a timing belt slip a tooth on an old fiat 124 once and had a real loud backfire on that also. I don't know if a timing belt on an old DOHC 124 Spider and a FJR1300 are synonymous but to my uneducated mind seem somewhat analogous.

I'll know more Tuesday.

Regardless after having my Suspension completely redone and the handling having improved to tremendously I am inclined to do whatever is necessary to keep it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions I hopefully will find out more on Tuesday.

Regards.

Crap-In-A-Hat, I had a 124 Spider too! Talk about a POS!! I loved that POS, even though it cost me THOUSANDS to keep it running! But yeah, a slipped tooth on a DOHC Eyetalian car is 100% analogous to the timing chain slipping on a DOHC FJR. The real issue is, if the CCT is no longer functioning as it should, continued running the bike with a loose cam chain can cause disastrous damage to your engine's top end, as in, crushed valves, damaged valve seats, etc. Be careful!

RadioHowie:

Like you I loved that old (Fix It Again Tony) mobile. The odd thing is, since it was before the age of all the electronics I took the heads off and fixed it myself. I take one look at all the Electronics now and just sort of give up before I start. Ignorance was bliss in my college days. I didn't really realize all the things I could screw up by doing my own work.

Thing about working on the FJR, you don't really have to know anything about the electronics. It's just an engine in a frame. For a fun read, check out my "Motor Removal" thread.

It's one of those "If-I-Can-Do-It, You-Can-Do-It" type of things. If you can turn a wrench, you can do the job.

I will say though that compared to my 1969 Roots Motor Sunbeam Alpine (the year before Chrysler bought them) that Fiat 124 was pure quality. Frightening thought isn't it?

I'd have to take your word for it, except for the funny thing is I replaced my Fiat Spider with a Sunbeam Tiger, the Ford 260 c.i. version of your Alpine, so I'm VERY familiar with the Rootes Group platform.

I drove a Sunbeam Tiger w/260 c.i. version. really liked it.

Bad news on FJR. Went to mechanics he had the entire motor out. The cylinders still looked good. Valves were filthy and valve guides on 6 of the valves had a lot lateral movement and didn't seat properly at all. Result, I need to rebuild the top end. If I am going to do that I might as well change the timing chain and CCT etc. I am trying to decide now whether to part it out and buy a replacement or just overhaul. But after putting in racetech suspension, an RDL and Audiovox Cruise Control I have to admit I am leaning towards a rebuild.

Crap!!!