Cam Chain Replacement

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(...) Gotta be sure to have a picture handy when actually doing the job, which would have to ba a serious PITA with the motor "in frame" since seeing the marks on the exhaust cam are practically impossible to see.
I found an inspection mirror (dental mirror) and flashlight, to be the only way to view the exhaust cam marks while still in the frame. You can just barely get the mirror lined up to both reflect light directly on the end of the exhaust cam gear, and be able to see the reflection from alongside the machined edge of the head. It's a true PITA, but possible.

Another trick is to lay a metal straight edge on the head surface, to extend the reference point closer to the cam gears. That also helps remove visual distortion while checking it in the frame.

Great pics Howie!

 
The hex bolt at the top (already removed) and at 1 o'clock are longer than the rest. Keep that tidbit of information handy.
Yup. Kinda important info, that. Too bad the tech that worked on my FJR was not as diligent as you..........

July 2007. 110,000 miles. Right side engine knocking sound had been there for a while. Most likely a bad CCT. Took it to a dealer since it was still under warranty. Dealer replaced cam chain, guides, and at my urging the CCT too.

The day I was supposed to pick it up it wasn't ready. The next day when it was ready I found out the tech, after re-assembling everything had to tear it back down again. Seems there was a metallic buzz coming from the motor after the first re-assembly. So he took everything apart, couldn't find anything wrong, called Yammie corporate technical assistance who pronounced it 'new chain mating to the sprockets'. Put it back together again. Still had the 'buzz'. It was there when I picked the bike up, and disappeared short time later.

Well, my next valve check at a different (and excellent) dealer, he showed me one of the 'longer' bolts you mention above. It had been placed in the wrong spot and had been grinding on the brand new cam chain!!! Fuck me!

That chain has been in there for 100k now, so I guess no harm, no foul, but ya think these guys would pay a bit more attention to what's going on!!!!

Clicky HERE for photo of bolt

Most excellent job on the write-up Howie. Should I ever need to do something like this, you just made it a hell of a lot easier for a virgin like me.

So how do you properly adjust a 'manual CCT'?

I know you are freaked out by the FJR's stock CCT, but I got 110k out of my first, and currently have 100k on my second with no noise. Definitely one of the 'weak links' of the FJR, but I don't think all motors are doomed to self-implode. So I am just wondering how much of a benefit the manual CCT is?

 
Most excellent job on the write-up Howie. Should I ever need to do something like this, you just made it a hell of a lot easier for a virgin like me.
Thank you, sir.

So how do you properly adjust a 'manual CCT'?
I'll have a proper answer for you in a week or so. :)

All kidding aside, the machining on the A.P.E. unit is first rate. The threads in the CCT body look like they were cut with a laser and the adjuster screws in and out like silk panties sliding down a supermodel's leg. Smoooooth. (Didja like that analogy?)

Although I haven't installed the motor and run it yet, after getting everything ready to be sealed up, I did a little experimenting with the adjuster. Backed it off just enough to be able to wiggle the adjustment guide fore-and-aft. Then tightened it up as far as I could just using my fingertips. I could definitely feel the "point of no return" where the adjusting cam hits the chain guide. Then attempted to wiggle the guide fore-and-aft. Wasn't able to. Turned the screw out 1 turn, and COULD feel the slack in the guide. Screw it back in with only my fingers as far as it would go, and no play. I really think "adjustment by fingertip" is the way to go with this manual CCT, since it's so easy to turn, and you simply can't grab the adjusting screw hard enough, or turn it hard enough using only your fingertips, to overtighten the chain, at least without slicing up your fingertips on the threads.

Of course, this is all based on observation. I can give positive feedback when it's running, but based on my observation, this is how to adjust it. Certainly no reason to crank it in with a screwdriver.

I know you are freaked out by the FJR's stock CCT, but I got 110k out of my first, and currently have 100k on my second with no noise. Definitely one of the 'weak links' of the FJR, but I don't think all motors are doomed to self-implode. So I am just wondering how much of a benefit the manual CCT is?
You're 100% on the money. LOTS of folks have reported chain noise that was fixed with a replacement CCT, and only 3 forum members have reported grenaded motors due to faulty CCTs -- Me, Ionbeam and Patriot. Three instances of destruction doesn't signal a trend. The biggest issue I have with the OEM CCT is that it is NOT a Zero-Return design. That's the big problem with it. Once the chain starts slapping, that signals the adjustment spring has reached "end of life" in the CCT, since it's no longer extending.

The benefit of the manual is you can extend the plunger to take out the slack and LOCK IT DOWN. You can't do that with the OEM. Someone who's not familiar with the real failing of the OEM design (owner or dealer tech) could easily quiet the noise down with a quick twist of the OEM plunger with a screwdriver, not knowing that there's nothing left in the spring's tension to maintain the plunger at its new depth, it could screw itself back out to the position it was when it started making noise, leaving too much slack in the chain and disaster occurs.

Not to say the manual is foolproof.....a hamfisted owner or mechanic might leave the locknut loose, which would allow the same scenario to occur. However, with proper, and simple precautions, it shouldn't happen. Make sure it's tight, and put a drop of blue locktite on the threads.

Unless I screw the pooch putting everything back together, I'm confident my "new" motor will be running for many miles and months to come. Sometimes knowledge is a dangerous thing, in that what I've learned about the OEM CCT, I'd be scared spitless knowing that little $75 part was the "thin blue line" between happy motoring and expensive disaster.

I have absolute faith that should something disastrous occur mechanically with my Feej, it WON'T be the manual CCT's fault.

'Howie

 
...only 3 forum members have reported grenaded motors due to faulty CCTs -- Me, Ionbeam and Patriot. Three instances of destruction doesn't signal a trend.
Plus Drew "drewvanracer" that popped his cam chain at EOM and U-Hauled it home.

 
Can you report the mileage when the grenaded?

Ionbeam:__________ miles

Radiohowie:__________ miles

Patriot:__________ miles

 
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103k for moi

did I mention I had been hearing faint marbles in a can for awhile and then it went away, then came back louder.

easy to hear first thing in the morning...start the bike ice cold, back it out the garage into the driveway...and while gearing up the dash would show one bar of warmed up and the idle would reduce to normal operation and it would sound off with the marbles at that point.

when I noticed it louder, I ordered the new CCT, unfortunately Mondak didn't have one in stock and ordered it on some kind of priority and shipped it to me quickly. Ordered it on Tue, received it on Monday, engine grenaded on the Sat in between when I decided to install and wire up some new lights...wired to the headlight relay which only came on with the engine running...needless to say, I haven't finished that project yet :dribble:

dang... :assassin:

new engine has arrived at Grave's Cycle Repair in Tylertown, MS...

CMA buddy borrowed my trailer over the weekend and it's been raining cats and dogs every day since last Fri :angry:

 
Can you report the mileage when the grenaded?

Radiohowie: 46,000 miles NOTE: My motor started exhibiting chain noise @ 39k. Forum concensus at the time, supported by dealer advice, "tweak your idle speed up and ignore it.....it's normal Yamaha noise". First reported on HERE. Unfortunately the sound file in the link is no longer there.

 
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Can you report the mileage when the grenaded?

Radiohowie: 46,000 miles NOTE: My motor started exhibiting chain noise @ 39k. Forum concensus at the time, supported by dealer advice, "tweak your idle speed up and ignore it.....it's normal Yamaha noise". First reported on HERE. Unfortunately the sound file in the link is no longer there.
Goes to show you what a bunch of experts we have on this forum, huh? Actually there about 5 guys who I'd trust to render an opinion on my engine and I'd pm them to get it.

 
Goes to show you what a bunch of experts we have on this forum, huh? Actually there about 5 guys who I'd trust to render an opinion on my engine and I'd pm them to get it.
FWIW, Warchild basically said "Uh-Oh! Take it to a dealer!" which I did, to no avail. They even had it for the TPS recall and said during the post-recall run and ride the noise was "normal" for a Yamaha.....ignore it.

Ask me if I go there any more..... <_<

 
Howie,

You are performing a great service to the rest of us in photo documenting your engine replacement travails. For that I commend you... and task you with maybe one more while your engine is still partly disassembled and out of the frame, or is it already too late?

One of the things that concerns me about the manual tensioner is that when adjusting the tensioner, depending on where the cams are, the valve springs can exert force on the cam lobes that puts slack into the chain section between the two cams. Unless you are viewing the whole chain while adjusting you would not know this is occurring and that could be catastrophic.

If you can cycle the engine through various positions then loosen and tighten the manual tensioner while observing the behaviour of the cams, you may be able to find an optimum crank and cam position to be adjusting at.

 
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Howie,
You are performing a great service to the rest of us in photo documenting your engine replacement travails. For that I commend you... and task you with maybe one more while your engine is still partly disassembled and out of the frame, or is it already too late?

One of the things that concerns me about the manual tensioner is that when adjusting the tensioner, depending on where the cams are, the valve springs can exert force on the cam lobes that puts slack into the chain section between the two cams. Unless you are viewing the whole chain while adjusting you would not know this is occurring and that could be catastrophic.

If you can cycle the engine through various positions then loosen and tighten the manual tensioner while observing the behaviour of the cams, you may be able to find an optimum crank and cam position to be adjusting at.
Fred, that's a great idea and I'm not too far along to provide you with a report. However, I think you're over-thinking this. Here's why I think so, but I could be wrong....once the chain is tightened up, even if not perfectly, the adjustment takes place on the chain run between the crank sprocket and the intake cam. That's where any damaging slack can occur, since the distance of the chain run from the intake sprocket to the exhaust sprocket doesn't change, little if any slack can develop there, assuming the chain IS "snugged up". Same for the downward run, from the exhaust cam to the crank sprocket. Again, assuming the chain has been snugged up, even if not perfectly, considering the motor turns clockwise from the crank sprocket perspective, the chain from the exhaust down to the crank will always be tight. The weak link, so to speak, is the return run from the crank back up to the intake cam. That's why the adjuster is on the "slack" side of the chain, since assuming the chain isn't worn out, the distance from intake center to exhaust center to crank center will always be the same even if the chain is loose.

So even if the chain has SOME slack in it, the chain will be tight from the intake cam to the exhaust cam, and from the exhaust cam down to the crank sprocket.

Adjusting for "perfect" tension would be an academic excercise if you ask me. Ideally, it only has to be tight enough to A - not make noise, and B - not slip on the crank sprocket. It will always be tight from cam-to-cam-to-sprocket.

But what the hell, I can check anyway. :)

 
Thanks mang. You're the shit!! (yeah, that's a good thing ;) )

My experience on cam chains and tensioners is admittedly biased toward overhead cam automobile engines with bigger valve springs and heavier chains and such. I do remember the valve springs fighting me to get things aligned and the slack suddenly showing up in weird places while manually turning it over until I had the tension close to right. When it's running it's probably a completely different story, but we'll be adjusting these things statically (that's a demand, not a suggestion) so as not to cause more explosions while twiddling.

Maybe my apprehension is unfounded. I'd be quite happy if that were the case and the manual CCT is a breeze to install and adjust. I do want to get this time bomb out of my well running '05 before a HowieIonPatriot goes off.

 
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