Propylene Glycol VS. Ethylene Glycol

A friend at my work uses this and swears by it. He said his bike (a ninja 14 if it matters) used to run real hot in slow and stop and go traffic, as most of us do. According to the product page. The Propylene Glycol has a better heat conducting/transferring property and they claim the engine runs up to 50 degrees cooler. I'm considering switching over to this when I do a coolant change. But I searched +engine+ice and came up empty. Love to hear thoughts. hear is a link to the page if anyone wants to read the specs. and FAQ's.

Engine Ice FAQ page

Never tried engine ICE, but I have used Water-Wetter from Redline for years. I've use it in my cars, bikes and water cooled computer rigs. It made a nice difference in my cars, real big difference in my Vmax and well, even on my PC. I haven't added it to the FJR yet, but it's on the list for my first Maint weekend which is coming up soon.

I don't know, but maybe these guys do: coolant discussion

or maybe this one: another "be-cool" chat

Tried it, no difference, none, zero, nada, Franks back on the Havoline green, which lowered engine temps so far it won't even start without a jump, we're talkin frost on the radiator bubba!

Thanks Scab. I dont know why that thread didn't come up in my search.I wish I could responses this fast to my G2 throttle tube/ factory heated grips question.

I wish I could get responses this fast to my G2 throttle tube and cam/ Factory heated grips question

Bet ya wish you could get responses this fast on...........ahhh, never mind.

Been running EI for the past 2 changes. Not again. If there is a difference between it and a good silicate-free coolant, it's so minor that it doesn't justify the cost.

I run it on my CBR but only because the tracks around here only allow Engine Ice or distilled water and Water Wetter. I've never noticed a difference, and because of the high price of it I wouldn't run it in my FJR.

That kind of product was created as a water substitute for track use, not as a coolant substitute.

Water pumps need coolant's lubrication (if water wetter lubricated nearly as good it wouldn't be allowed on tracks). Plus engine is protected against freezing. And I wouldn't doubt coolant provides much better rust and corrosion inhibitors as well.

A good long-life coolant mixed 50/50 with distilled water is going to cool your engine as good as anything else IMO. Later.

JC

DailyCommuter said:

A friend at my work uses this and swears by it. He said his bike (a ninja 14 if it matters) used to run real hot in slow and stop and go traffic, as most of us do. According to the product page. The Propylene Glycol has a better heat conducting/transferring property and they claim the engine runs up to 50 degrees cooler. I'm considering switching over to this when I do a coolant change. But I searched +engine+ice and came up empty. Love to hear thoughts. hear is a link to the page if anyone wants to read the specs. and FAQ's.
Engine Ice FAQ page

Click to expand...

Utter nonsense. Cooling systems LOOSE capacity operting on propylene glycol. That is why no OEM installs it in their engines at the factory. You would think that if there was that sort of gain to be had for simply changing coolants everyone would be all over it in a flash.

Two things cause this that ICE isn't telling you. One - Propylene glycol as significantly lower specific heat properties compared to ethylene glycol...i.e...it cannot carry as much heat as ethylene glycol. Two - propylene glycol is significantly more viscous than ethylene glycol. This slows the cooling flow down. Bad. Caues lower capacity. Both of these are simply scientific facts that you can verity with a little research and that fly directly in the face of anyone claiming that PG "makes a better coolant" or will cause the engine to run cooler.

If the engine is operating on the thermostat how can it suddenly run 50 degrees cooler with propylene glycol? Ask your Ninja buddy if he has ever heard of the placebo effect or if he has actually mesured the coolant temperature...or if he is just quoting their website.

The only "advantage" to propylene glycol is the fact that it is relatively non-toxic. If you plan on drinking your coolant then switch to PG. Otherwise, stick to the stuff that works, ethylene glycol.

If you want PG then just go buy Sierra branded coolant or one of the "Low-Tox" automotive coolants on the market. Same stuff that ICE will charge you 10 times as much for. Or buy the pink RV type antifreeze for potable water systems. That is propylene glycol also but without the corrosion inhibitors necessary to prevent engine damage when using it as a coolant.

Propylene Glycol is used in the packaged baked goods industry to retain moisture in the product. It is what makes Twinkies last forever..... Great for Twinkies but not so good as a coolant...unless you are selling it of course and stand to make money by convincing people to buy it, of ocurse.

hmm, i wonder if I can use it for my humidor?

temp357 said:

hmm, i wonder if I can use it for my humidor?

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i wouldn't use EI because of the additives. but i do use a 50/50 mix of PG and distilled water.

Quite a number of motorcyclist use Evans NPG coolant (waterless) with good results.

I have used it in both my FJRs, currently use it in my Goldwing and three Busas.

It does not leave a residue in the engine nor cooling system.

It never has to be changed nor replaced.

It is recommeded for a low pressure cooling system.

For best results some people in warmer climates have removed their thermostats completely from their machines, others have modified the thermostat to increase flow, others have changed the radiator cap to a lower pressure one.

This issue is like the debate btw synthetic and nonsynthetic oil users, Which is better?

Research the product and try it

ONE MORE BIKE said:

<snip>....For best results some people in warmer climates have removed their thermostats completely from their machines,

Click to expand...

Cooler coolant = better (read rad's post: "frost on the radiator!") goes along with lower C-o-G = better. Some things just won't go away.

Where's "Myth-busters" when ya' need 'em....? B)

Temp357, I have tons of PG for cigars. My cigar group was looking for some and a guy asked buddy in NJ. Well you have to take the whole container, we're thinking gallon. Nope, 55 gallon drum!

We bought a case of shampoo bottles and spread them out all over the country.

PM sent.

ONE MORE BIKE said:

Quite a number of motorcyclist use Evans NPG coolant (waterless) with good results.I have used it in both my FJRs, currently use it in my Goldwing and three Busas.

It does not leave a residue in the engine nor cooling system.

It never has to be changed nor replaced.

It is recommeded for a low pressure cooling system.

For best results some people in warmer climates have removed their thermostats completely from their machines, others have modified the thermostat to increase flow, others have changed the radiator cap to a lower pressure one.

This issue is like the debate btw synthetic and nonsynthetic oil users, Which is better?

Research the product and try it

Click to expand...

Having researched and tested both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol coolants (including the Evans NPG) I can attest to the following:

If the cooling systems work fine with Evans they would have worked even better with 50/50 ethylene glycol and water. There is nothing magic at all about Evans coolant........except that it makes him money.

Residue?? Since when does ethylene glycol leave a residue? Residue is from worn out coolant and corrosion. Keep fresh coolant in the system and there will be no residue. The EG is still good but the corrosion inhibitors are not after time.

There is currently no OAT based corrosion inhibitor package for propylene glycol coolants that I am aware of. Therefore, there is no long life PG coolant on the market. Therefore, PG coolants need to be replaced just like conventional EG coolants. They need replacing because the corrosion inhibitors are depleted not because the "coolant" itself has failed. Both EG and PG will last forever. Unfortunately the engine and cooling system will not last forever if you leave either coolant in them forever. If you think you can run Evans coolant forever you are fooling yourself.

If you take the stat out of ANY cooling system regardless of the coolant in it the engine will run cooler under most conditions. Why this is desireable is beyond my comprehension. Please explain. Higher coolant temps are desireable for engine life to get the oil warm enough (rapidly) to boil the moisture and fuel residue out of it. Running the engine too cold does it no favors.

It is also desireable to get the engine to a stable operating temperature to minimize thermal cycling and thermal fatigue. If there is no stat in the system then the coolant temperature is changing constantly as load/RPM changes. This is not good for the engine. The stat holds the engine at a stable temp so that the changes in load and speed simply affect the heat rejected from the system without affecting the coolant temp causing unnecessary thermal fatigue of the engine and gaskets from internal stress.

Evans is recommended for a low pressure system...???? What does this mean? Evans is smoke and mirrors with his 100 % PG coolants. True the boiling point is raised without the higher pressure. So what? Possibly useful in some unknown application with a non-pressurized cooling system (model A maybe??.) But, if you already have a pressurized cooling system there is absolutely no reason to switch to a lower pressure system. What possible rational drives the logic to go to a lower pressure cap and run a more viscous coolant that moves slower and has lower heat transfer capability simply "because" the boiling point is raised? There is no engineering reason for this other than to engineer your money to Evans for his product.

BTW...if you look at cooling systems for high capacity you find they do NOT use PG and they go to HIGHER pressures to get the capacity. 18 and 21 PSI are becoming very common for cooling systems in the automotive area. No OEM is lowering the pressure and using Evans coolant.

Evans also tried to tell the world that "reverse flow" systems worked better...that was pretty well shot down long ago.

Propylene glycol is much more viscous and moves much slower thru the system. this hurts the cooling unless you do something else to counteract it. They tell you to "open up the system" by removing the stat to make up for the deficiences of the coolant they just sold you. Duh...... At the very best you are back where you were with the proper operating stat and 50/50 EG/distilled water.

Too many of the "tests" and "testimonials" for PG and Evans are by people that have little or no knowlege of how a cooling system works. Their "tests" involve riding around the block and looking at the temp guage, not running system capacity at full load or any sort of high demand situation that really "tests" the cooling system.