What would you do?

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Seems the problem was a lack of communication, I always ask my ride'n partner where our next stop will be.
I agree. And we had. But I wasn't listening. That's the problem with being an alligator station, all mouth and no ears. Toe had said he might cut north on the road. That's when I should have made a mental note as to exactly where that road was, so I could be prepared for the separation. I take full responsibility for this - a lesson learned.


Interesting questions. I guess for me, when I'm riding with someone(s) else, I stay within visual of the people (almost) at all times. If I'm leading and they lag to sightsee, I slowdown too. If they are leading and get stay up with them so long as I'm not over my head. So, since I am constandtly taking or giving queues with them, I would almost immediately notice their absence if I didn't also see them turn.
In my mind that's what it means to ride "with" someone else. If you want to flex your inner squid, well I would generally do that when I am by myself and therefore do not have to worry about endangering anyone else. Since a large percentage of my riding time is spent by myself, where I can decide whether to take it easy and jam on the tunes or wick it up a bit for a little adrenaline, I really don't think this is such a big imposition.
Fully agree. And when I'm point, I always frequently check mirrors to count lights, check pack status. That's what was so weird about this situation - I had *just* seen Toe and flash, he's gone. I was riding Wabs, only a 650, so Toe had been gracious enough to ride wingman, so as to not leave me behind. No way can a dl650 keep up with an FJR.


IMO Toe should of came along side you and let you know through signals he was pulling off. This way the communication chain would of been complete, you and he could of went on your merry ways without incident.
As is stated in TOPGUN, "NEVER EVER LEAVE YOUR WINGMAN". Unless of course you let him know. Flashing your lights is not letting someone know you are peeling off, who knows where your brain could of been when he did that.

Good of you to exhaust your resources to locate your buddy and most excellent of him to call when he got home to let you know he was safe.

As someone said, we normally talk and let people know we are peeling off here! Communication is always key.
I don't think there was time for Toe to ride along side to visually clue the clueless leader (me). Me thinks he saw the exit, said, hey that's the one, flashed his lights and took it. If I were Toe I'd be thinking 'he knows I'm taking this road, we talked about it, and here it is.' Me, on the other hand, I'm in the 'get to the barn mode'. I'm pushing too hard. I don't feel good. I'm realizing I dawdled too long during day light hours and now I'm soon to be a night rider. Mi culpa, not Toe's fault on this one...


When I ride with someone for the first time I usually do a short run through of riding rules courtesies. Often the new riding partner(s) say WTF is up with that :lol: One of them is the courtesy of separation. When following, I will always try to stay in sight and only bunch up to keep traffic lights and turning traffic from getting between us. When leading I always try to keep my fellow co-rider in sight, I check often. I let them know that if they loose sight of me to pull over and stop, I will turn around and go back as soon as I notice they are missing. Don't try to find me, I will find you because I know the route. If I pass through a light and you don't make it, I will pull over and wait. If a car or cars get in between us I will pull over when convenient and group up again. If it is a significant trip I will have some preplanned meeting places or preset phone call times so it doesn't mater when, where or how we got separated.
When riding as a group it is ok to spread out and follow a 3 second or 5 second spacing on the open road. When sport riding, ride your ride and I will see you at our preset meeting location. When riding in traffic or areas with traffic control, please keep the grouping closed up; close but safe. Again, the traffic light and interleaved car courtesy applies, I will pull over and wait.

I've never had a problem with these guidelines, never lost a rider and have never been separated. The guidelines may change for other areas of the country, riding between Palm Springs and Las Vagas is sure different than the little warren of roads through the mountains of Vermont.
The lesson learned from your post is this - even when riding with those you've ridden with before, establish the ground rules, make sure both are clear on the understanding. Of course, as I said before, Toe did say he was taking that route. I just did not pay attention.


What do you say? What would you do?
The best solution I have found is to tie all riders together with monofilent fishing line. The monofilent line has some "give" in case one of the riders falls behind, and it will break if someone goes over a cliff and so won't pull everone else down the cliff. And when the line breaks, this serves as immediate notice that someone has left the group.
Now there's an idea! :rofl:


OK, now my thoughts on the subject (not just on cell phone battery discharge).
I believe in the "never leave your wing man" thing. Maybe it's from scuba diving years ago, or from years of ski mountaineering in the back country. If you're riding together, unless it's stated otherwise to begin with, you're the lifeline for the other rider if anything bad should happen.

If I'm leading, I'm regularly looking in my mirrors and counting headlights. I can't always be sure everyone knows the route, so sometimes it's just the desire not to leave someone baffled and stranded at that signalized intersection we all made a left from. If that number drops below what we started with, I first slow down and give the missing headlights a chance to come into view. If they don't show up soon, I stop and wait. If the rider still doesn't show up, I go back and do exactly as you did, Don. In fact, that's exactly what happened when madmike2 did his KLR get-off into the guard rail post in Aug. '07. I was leading, Bluestreek was 2d, Mike was 3d . . . until he stopped showing up in my mirrors. We slowed, stopped and then went back to find the worst -- the very thing you don't want to find as you hope he just stopped to take pics somewhere. If I'm leading and someone's headlights disappear, the first thing I'm doing is trying to recall exactly where I last saw them, because it's between THAT point and where I stopped that they will be found if the worst - a crash - occurred.

If I'm sweep, and someone drops off in front of me, I pull up and check with him that everything is ok before going on. Beyond that, from the back of the pack, I try to be aware that the leader may be counting headlights, and I try not to be the rider who dawdles so long somewhere that I end up coming upon the whole pack stopped or coming back to find me. If I got lost or stuck in traffic, however, I appreciate them doing that. I recall (on a Yosemite trip in June '07) when FJRob and the cell phone lady were kind enough to wait for me and my GF getting under way after lunch on the way down -- I didn't know the route from there and would've lost the pack if Rob and Terri hadn't waited just ahead.

I don't ever want to have someone ruin their own ride having to watch out for me, nor am I necessarily going to ride like an old lady when I lead. If you wanna rip the twisties or take the engine to redline, do it. But let the rest of us catch up a reasonable distance ahead before you dash off again. I'm always reminded of how lucky OM was to have flown his first FJR off a steep embankment in that remote area and have bokerfork (that was who it was?) close enough in front to have immediately noticed his disappearance and gone back to find him. Given the road he was on and the terrain, he could have been there for days without being found. That kind of assistance is especially important on a trip a long way from home where maybe none of you has ever even ridden the road before. If someone is missing, you need to have the best possible intelligence on the area in which to look (and within a reasonable time). It could be fatal if a crashed rider isn't found soon. I think we all remember last summer's Wing rider that crashed on 93 in Idaho near Salmon and his body and bike weren't found for over a week. He was alone, and that's one of the risks of riding alone. But if we ride together, I assume that part of the reason for that is to minimize that risk. That isn't accomplished if you simply dash off ahead and never look back until you get to the motel.

Don, you did what you could about a situation created by less than perfect communication, but we all do that on occasion and trying to learn from it is the only intelligent response. I think your suggestions were as good a lesson as could be taken from it. You're thinking and concerned, and that's the kind of riding partner I like to ride with. Good on ya for that, and for such a good discussion topic.
Well said, very nice summary.
 
If you are leading and I see you getting pulled over for a ticket, I'll honk and wave, have a nice day. I'll see the pariah again on another day. :lol:

 
Losing someone can be serious but funny also. Years ago (before cell phones I think) my newly married daughter and her beau went riding several days away on the BRP. As they were then wont to do, they had a little disagreement with one of them stomping/riding off. The other didnt notice which direction really and headed off in the wrong direction. Several hours later after they got really seperated, each phoned home and sheepishly asked "had we heard anything from the other?" Years later I was riding across America with said beau, we also had a little destination disagreement in Idahoe, which also had to be (successfully) mediated from home many hours later. :)

 
Don,

Good post and lots to ponder. I've been carrying one of these https://www.powerletproducts.com/product/10...socket-cable/10 under my seat for years that allows for charging my cell with my car charger from my Powerlet outlet. Exskibum has good advice on shutting one's phone off, I have a Verizon Casio Boulder that lasts for two days down in the valley with good coverage and will barely last 15 hours at my house up in the hills with sketchy to no coverage. Lots of good advice also posted especially your plan about having a (non-relative) point of contact to check in with if parties become separated. Last thing someone wants is a call about a missing family member only to learn later they stopped to take a picture.

 
I know the feeling you get when someone you are riding with disapears and you don't know for sure what happened. Under the circumstances you did the right thing by doing all you could to make sure he was OK.

First thing is to make sure you cover this topic along with all the other stuff you go over before leaving for a group ride. Even a group of two is a group ride.

Second, I always wave to riders as they leave the group. If everyone expects that, then they will know you didn't see them peel off if you didn't wave to them.

 
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First thing is to make sure you cover this topic along with all the other stuff you go over before leaving for a group ride. Even a group or two is a group ride.
Second, I always wave to riders as they leave the group. If everyone expects that, then they will know you didn't see them peel off if you didn't wave to them.
There are TWO really good ideas!

 
Agree the trailing rider should have caught up and signaled that he was splitting off. this is just common courtesey and prevents situations like the one described.

+1 for 2 way radios. radio's should have been verified for correct operation prior to the trip.

 
... I'm always reminded of how lucky OM was to have flown his first FJR off a steep embankment in that remote area and have bokerfork (that was who it was?) close enough in front to have immediately noticed his disappearance and gone back to find him. ... It could be fatal if a crashed rider isn't found soon. ....
Not to stray off-topic, but YES, Rich, it was Bokerfork (Mark). And with my innards smashed up, and other functions going south quickly, I'm convinced I'd not this evening be enjoying Carver's insightful threads had not Mark done everything right that day.

Thanks dcarver.

And thank you again, Mark. Ya bastard. :D

 
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Damn! I hate to say this..................but, Thanks Mark..

I'm pretty sure Ida missed that old fuker Michael..

Best be nice now ya rasin dik..

:jester:

 
Don,Good post and lots to ponder. I've been carrying one of these https://www.powerletproducts.com/product/10...socket-cable/10 under my seat for years that allows for charging my cell with my car charger from my Powerlet outlet. Exskibum has good advice on shutting one's phone off, I have a Verizon Casio Boulder that lasts for two days down in the valley with good coverage and will barely last 15 hours at my house up in the hills with sketchy to no coverage. Lots of good advice also posted especially your plan about having a (non-relative) point of contact to check in with if parties become separated. Last thing someone wants is a call about a missing family member only to learn later they stopped to take a picture.
Tx, CAJW, good comments. On my FJR, I keep the cellie powered up via the outlet and cord. This works ok, but the problem is I prefer to ride with cellie in jacket pocket in case of OM get-off, away from the bike, and body broken. Exacerbatingthis situation is my cellie battery is marginal at best. On Wabs, I don't have any 12 vdc outlets (yet) that fit my ciggie adapter. Tim had wired in a BMW good for nothing adapter, no help to me. Once again, mi culpa.

Agree the trailing rider should have caught up and signaled that he was splitting off. this is just common courtesey and prevents situations like the one described.
+1 for 2 way radios. radio's should have been verified for correct operation prior to the trip.
May I play devils advocate? We had talked about it and it was understood that ToeCutter was bailing at that exit. I didn't 'hear' him. I wasn't listening. I was too concerned with feeling bad, then pressing to get home. If Toe is behind, and sees his exit, with no time to accelerate ahead and make it well known before 'blowing' his exit, is it really on him? I don't think so, IMHO.
I guess what I'm really asking is 'what is the proper procedure to follow if you get separated from your riding partner' for whatever reason?

I thank each and every respondent for their insight. The quality of posts clearly indicate that folks on this board care about their fellow riders - exactly what I expected! :wub:

 
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Well personally I think it was TC's fault for not making sure you saw him pulling off.

I prefer to ride solo but if I'm riding with another or others and I or the part of the group I'm with is splitting off (even if it is well known where we are to separate) I do everything possible to make sure the other rider or group knows what is up (usually riding along side and saluting or waving).

I have been at the front of a group and had riders disappear behind me, ridden sweep and had a bike in front of me go down and the group go on & ridden sweep and gotten lost from the group because we got separated at a national park entrance and the group just took off and we weren't sure of where the next stop was.

IMHO it is the lead group's (or lead rider if it's only 2) to keep track of all riders behind but if a rider (or sub group) is going to split off they HAVE TO make sure the rest of the group knows what is up!

 
Great discussion and good thoughts. Here are just a few extras:

Here (in Australia) I often ride with a personal EPirb in my inner jacket pocket. We have had guys go off a mountain 30 minutes from where I live and not be found until the next day - dead. No guarantee that I will be in any shape to use it the day I go off the mountain, but I will if I feel I need to, either for myself or another rider where there is no phone coverage.

We often travel in a group with very different riding styles. This includes my wife who only got her full licence 4 months ago, and is now on an FZ6. Everyone knows the next 'collection point' where we will wait, and everyone rides their own ride. While I try and keep count of the headlights behind me, there are many times when they do just fall too far behind for this to be practical. If I am leading I will wait until everyone is accounted for, and will go back if someone does not show.

Anyone leaving the group MUST wave goodbye to another rider and get acknowledgement. If you are planning to turn off and realise you are not in a position to wave goodbye/get attention, you carry on, get attention, wave goodbye, and then go back to your turn-off point.

If you don't follow the rules, next time we will still have breakfast together, and we will then start our SEPARATE rides.

BTW - when my wife and I are riding 'alone together' our pace is significantly faster and more assured that with a larger group. She knows the overtaking rules, etc, and it doesn't matter who is lead or who is wingman - it just WORKS for us.

 
Sounds like we've all had these situations. It's pissed me off more than once when (unlike the OP) someone left a "group ride" without telling anyone and had us wandering along back the way we came looking for a DB.

 
Sounds like we've all had these situations. It's pissed me off more than once when (unlike the OP) someone left a "group ride" without telling anyone and had us wandering along back the way we came looking for a DB.
Yep...BTDT. Now we pretty much know who is likely to wander off and normally don't spend an hour looking for them. We count THEM as a "separate ride".

 
I ride snowmobile in winter and we are usually on trails that are marked but it's very easy to miss a turn and you can get REALLY lost in the middle of a national forest. remote nature of the area and terrain make cell phones and radios pretty much useless.

Our rule is each rider is responsible to make sure the rider immediately behind him sees the leading rider make the turn. If you get to a turn and can't see the rider behind you you wait.

if somehow you get lost anyway you go back to the last turn where you KNOW the guy in front of you saw you and wait.

same system would work fine for motorcycles.

 
Our rule is each rider is responsible to make sure the rider immediately behind him sees the leading rider make the turn. If you get to a turn and can't see the rider behind you you wait.
if somehow you get lost anyway you go back to the last turn where you KNOW the guy in front of you saw you and wait.

same system would work fine for motorcycles.
That is part of "The Pace", the link to which I post when I'm planning a ride. You wait and make sure the rider behind you sees and makes any turn at an intersection. It's something that O'valeFJR to preached at every ride.

IF everyone does it, it works really well and nobody gets lost.

Of course, it helps that I bring maps for any riders not familiar with the route and delineate rest and lunch stops, etc.

In the case Don presented, where there was mis-communication, any change in method would be for a different purpose. I suppose we should all get more in touch with our "feminine side" and l-i-s-t-e-n and mentally record what is said. :unsure:

 
"feminine side" and l-i-s-t-e-n .... :unsure:
huh.gif


Are you allowed to say "Feminine side" and "listen" in the same sentence??? Kind of a non-sequitur isn't it?

 
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