'13 FJR1300 in Montana....

[McRide]

Short Version:

I recently purchased a Gen III ’13 from Montana (Forum Member) as a step up from my older but Very Good condition ‘04. Advertised as Excellent Condition. Bought and Shipped to SoCal. 1st impression, very nice but (sinking feeling)… lots of damage not stated in the CL Post or mentioned by seller. No joy. It's all on me, no one forced me to buy... but

Long Version (and I don’t care if this seller is your riding bud or drinking partner 'cause I'm venting.

Was a very descriptive CL Post, and primary for me the condition was noted as ‘Excellent’. Secondarily, it had new tires, shock, recent tuneup and wired GPS. (Only later noticed the Dalton Hwy stickers). I live 1,300 miles south in SoCal. There were more than enough fellow Forumites chiming in that I felt satisfied (loud sucking sound) that this ’13 was, in fact, ‘Excellent’ or very close to it. We chatted, I bought it, shipped here and I’ve been wrenching a bit to get a few items on and off.

I’ve discovered rusted, pitted mufflers, chipped paint, the rear fender has been crudely hacked off (hiding behind an add-on tailpiece), a cracked front fender, long wide scratches in the speedo glass and a 4x2 impression on a side bag. Definite amateur BodyWork. These are not expected wear and tear and not ‘blemishes’. These are damaged items that this guy knew about but deliberately never mentioned.

I suggested either a 'take back' for this Average bike, or a refund since the seller ‘forgot’ to mention all the damage in that lengthy, very descriptive CL post about this (clear throat) ‘Excellent’ bike…. ‘Nope’. I’m sure there’s more to come. Just yesterday, I noticed the front axle bolt was unwound an inch from the fork. AN INCH!. Never torqued after tire replacement…. What’s next? I need to strip the entire ‘Excellent’ bike down to frame and check all bolts, bearings and connections for spec? WTF!#@K

I could have bought a ‘Good’ or ‘Average’ ’Gen III seven days a week within 2 hours of home but I wanted the Wow factor. He says he ‘fairly represented’ the condition simply because ‘some of you <Forumites> agreed with his description’. What?!? Because it was shiney it was therefore excellent? Now he’s playing dumb.

From Kelly Blue Book, Excellent condition means that ‘the vehicle looks new,… needs no reconditioning…. never had any paint or body work and is free of rust.’ When asked about blemishes or anything broken, during the one week ship, he sent a pic of a slight scratch on the nose, as if that was it. The best he can do is refund $100. Gee, what a standup guy.

1. Shame on me. I own this debacle, I lusted for an Excellent ’13, jumped in too fast and got Average, at best. F@#king RUST and Bodywork?!?
2. My trusting nature takes another kick in the balls. Ripped off by a Forum member no less.
3. Always Buy Local. Distance Buying, Never!… no matter what is written, said or shown, the seller just might be a deceitful play-it-dumb clown like this guy, so you’re f***ked anyway.
   

Any thoughts on how I can get out of this mess other than buy parts and start repairing the damage? Go all-in on false advertising? It's re-registered here and the only agreement was the exchange of money on PayPal.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I feel your pain here. I have no good advice but I do have a similar story but with a happier ending.

Some of you may remember Wheaton FJR. He was a member here but is now banned, he used to be very popular here. A couple of weeks ago, Wheaton crashed with a group of fellow FJR riders and totaled his very nice 2013 FJR. He broke some ribs and his collarbone so he cannot ride anytime soon anyway.

Several fellow FJR riders, myself included started looking for a replacement 2013 and we found The Perfect Bike in the Chicago area. It was posted on FJRowners and was listed as almost perfect. It sure looked like a Great Deal. Wheaton contacted the guy, made an offer and the deal was almost final.

Except! Wheaton had his friend Marty/OFace who lived in that area go take a look at the bike. It was a poorly maintained, salt corroded POS. It was nowhere near the condition the asshat had advertised it as being. Why would anyone who was a member of any of the FJR forums knowingly lie and try to cheat their fellow forum members? You would think that the peer pressure would keep these folks at least somewhat honest.

I know I always had great results buying and selling items on this forum, the other FJR forums and ST1300us.com. Sadly, times have changed.

I wish you luck. And I sincerely hope that anyone who tries to cheat a fellow forum member gets what they truly deserve.

Edit: I did not realize when I posted to this thread it was in the Classified Section. I just clicked on it at the top of the home page. My sincerest apologies to the Admin Folks. I would not have posted at all had I realized it was in the Classified Section and I don't think I can delete it.

 

[FJRay]

Sorry to hear. Maybe some recourse through PayPal but don't know.

 

[trimmantom]

I've had a similar situation on a bike listed as excellent

I did a fly and ride and new after riding the excellent POS that the only thing I could do was sell the POS. Really pissed me off. I took a little bit of a hit on it. My advice to you brother is dump the POS because you will never have a good feeling about the bike. I truly sympathize with you having gone through the same thing.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Nevermind...Wrong bike.

 

[blassoff]

I've long been of the opinion that 95% of the folks you meet are decent and up standing, the other 5% are assholes. I believe I've been fortunate that I rarely meet the 5%. Depending upon how you paid, you may have wire fraud or mail fraud charges to level against the seller. Document everything with your local PD. Then reach out the the PD where the seller is located. Also, Paypal is pretty decent about defending your rights. I recently had them get me a refund against FTD for some dead flowers after FTD offered me $11 on a $60 order.

There was a brief article in MCN about a similar situation, I think it was last month. Check out the lawyers advise, it may be spot on (if i remember it correctly) . Also, yea if you're stuck with it, I'd fix it, clean it up and dump out. You'll never fall in love with a bike you just don't trust.

Best of luck...Baz

 

[SkooterG]

Wow. What a bummer. I remember lusting after the FJR you bought. I'm glad I have too many already and didn't buy it. That sucks you are so unhappy. Like posted above, sell it. You will NEVER be happy with it. I bought and sold a LOT of FJRs over the years. Always have had good luck in both. But the one FJR I didn't really love was a higher mileage 2004. It had 60k miles on it and I got it for *reallty* cheap but with that many miles I found that how other folks maintain and farlke their bikes is not necessarily up to my standards. I rode it for 6 months and sold it for more than I payed for it. (And fixed some of the 'issues' too.) After that experience my general rule is not to buy an FJR with more than 15-20k miles. My theory is with that low of miles, somebody shouldn't have had enough time to screw it up too badly maintaining it or farkling it.

While I have had good experiences doing fly and ride FJR purchases, you have to be careful. In the past I have gone at looked at low mile examples of FJRs advertised as 'excellent' only to find that wasn't really the case.

Wheatie got banned from FJRForum? Really? WTF? This place sucks.

 

[Bounce]

Bummer.

Sadly these are the stories that make me shudder. I read of people asking other to "okay" their delaying or never doing recommended maintenance items. I see stories of riding until cords are showing on the tires. I read much more. Each and every time I cringe that someone else is going to inherit the POS they are creating. I can imagine that most of them fail to disclose each and every two-step-avoidance they've done along the way.

It's also why I insist on seeing their detailed service folder. If it's not there or not reflecting receipts with date/mileage of each consumable, etc. I pass and let someone else deal with the mess that may or may not be there. It's a lesson I learned the hard way back when buying one of the first bikes I owned. I ended up spending the seemingly-good purchase price of the bike in repairing what was hidden by the seller. I then sold it for a loss but was damned if I was going to do the same thing to the next buyer.

Good luck.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Sorry to hear the deal turned out badly McRide. Definitely not expected based on the thread...

~G

 

[FJ3R]

Sorry to hear about your troubles... in the end, its like getting new skis, never buy a pair if you don't try them first, no matter what the seller tells you!

Good luck to you McRide.

 

[McRide]

Wow. What a bummer. I remember lusting after the FJR you bought. I'm glad I have too many already and didn't buy it. That sucks you are so unhappy. Like posted above, sell it. You will NEVER be happy with it. I bought and sold a LOT of FJRs over the years. Always have had good luck in both. But the one FJR I didn't really love was a higher mileage 2004. It had 60k miles on it and I got it for *reallty* cheap but with that many miles I found that how other folks maintain and farlke their bikes is not necessarily up to my standards. I rode it for 6 months and sold it for more than I payed for it. (And fixed some of the 'issues' too.) After that experience my general rule is not to buy an FJR with more than 15-20k miles. My theory is with that low of miles, somebody shouldn't have had enough time to screw it up too badly maintaining it or farkling it.
While I have had good experiences doing fly and ride FJR purchases, you have to be careful. In the past I have gone at looked at low mile examples of FJRs advertised as 'excellent' only to find that wasn't really the case.

Wheatie got banned from FJRForum? Really? WTF? This place sucks.

For sure, 'Excellent' warranted a fly and ride. At least I could have put my eyes on it before donating towards his next bike. Grrrrrrr....

 

[RossKean]

This is why I am extremely reluctant to buy (or sell) any used vehicle or other high-value item sight unseen - to or from anyone!!

The fact is that one person's description may not meet another person's standards or expectations.

I don't know the bike and don't know either the buyer or seller and I am not passing judgement on anybody.

With any used equipment purchase, it is up to the buyer to ensure that they are getting what they think they are getting. Last year, I bought a used 2011 FJR via a 3200 mile fly 'n ride. Worked out the deal in advance and had a signed agreement that I had the right to refuse (with refund of the sizeable deposit) if the bike wasn't fairly represented by the advertising. I would have been out the cost of the return flight but was willing to take the chance. Bike wasn't perfect but was absolutely fairly represented by the seller and was a very satisfactory transaction. No attempt was made to hide anything.

A seller may have a genuine impression of his own bike that exceeds reality and not be deliberately trying to cheat anyone. A blemish that you have learned to ignore may be glaringly obvious to the buyer. Similarly, buyers often are unrealistic about what to expect. One person's rusted pitted muffler might be inconsequential to another or perhaps something that can be easily restored with a little elbow grease. An item like a cracked fender should be resolved somehow - by the seller if not disclosed or the shipper if damaged in transit.

I hope the original poster is happier as he gets to know the bike. If not, fix it or sell it and move on with a lesson learned about the purchase of used vehicles.

 

[Archer]

I too lusted lustily on that sale posting out of Montana. Only five winter mountain passes kept me from fly-n-ride'n this recent February. I would have pulled that trigger. My thanks to McRide for sharing his business and letting us be advised.

 

[puppychow]

Sorry to hear about this. I saw the posting too, and saw several other members posting about the "R E P U T A B L E" seller. Hope that indeed turns out to be the case, and the situation is rectified to both your satisfaction.

 

[McRide]

Sorry to hear about this. I saw the posting too, and saw several other members posting about the "R E P U T A B L E" seller. Hope that indeed turns out to be the case, and the situation is rectified to both your satisfaction.

Thanks for the support... I'll add a few new parts and get it sellable and move on . I'll be straight up about the condition. I don't need no Bad Karma!

 

[Pterodactyl]

I am the seller, I waited to respond so that the thread could develop.

First, I will respond to the idea that I intended to deceive a potential buyer. I offered to facilitate a fly and ride for any buyer by providing local transportation and hosting him in my home for a few days. I assumed that any buyer would see the bike before consummating the deal. The ultimate buyer was not intending to accept my offer because he has family in my local area, but did intend to come to my place to pay for and pick-up the bike. In early March the full payment appeared in my PayPal account without prior notice. It was quickly followed by a note from the buyer saying that due to work commitments he was having the bike shipped. About a week later the shipper arrived and picked up the bike. This is all said to point out that I assumed the buyer would have the chance to inspect the bike before paying.

A week later I got an email from the buyer that said the bike had arrived and it was spectacular. Four days later I got another email listing some problems he has with the bike and asking that I either buy back the bike or refund $750. I looked at what he was displeased with and decided that I would pay to replace the front fender. It had damage to the lower left rear edge where the fender meets a fender extender. The damage occurred about four years ago. I had forgotten the damage so refunded the cost of the fender plus shipping. The hacked off rear fender was where I removed the rear reflector with the intention of installing an aluminum fender extender; I did not install the extender to hide the cut. The other observations he listed I feel are reasonable for a bike with 41,488 miles and sold for $6,750. I sent the buyer over two dozen pictures. They showed that I had decals on the bike and he asked that I remove them. I agreed and advised him they would leave shadows. The pictures also showed the extended fender on the rear and the side cases.

I have no explanation for the unseated axle bolt. I have changed 150+ motorcycle tires, over dozen on the FJR, and never made such an error. However, in this instance I made an error and for that I apologize. I am confident the buyer will recall that I encouraged him to carefully inspect the bike before riding. I did significant work on it during the winter and did not have an opportunity to do a test ride. In this case it was probably not correctly torqued and loosened during shipping. I am thankful that it was noticed before being ridden.

The buyer and I obviously have different opinions on the bikes condition. I am dismayed that this deal left us both feeling ill-treated, but have little hope of it being resolved to either of our satisfaction.

This will be my only comment on this thread.

 

[SkooterG]

A good, and fair response.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

A good, and fair response.

Agreed.

When I originally responded to this thread I was still stinging from a deal gone sour with my friend WheatonFJR where he was definitely misled and narrowly avoided getting cheated on a bike that was clearly not as represented. In hindsight I wish I had been a little more restrained in my initial post.

I will also say that I did not know who the seller was, I always thought of Pterodactyl as being a decent and stand up guy. I was shocked when I found out afterwards. I did not edit my post because if I already said it, there was no point in crawfishing. It was out there.

I would urge both parties to take a step back, try to come to a mutual agreement. I cannot speculate on the expectations or the intentions of either the buyer or the seller. I know we have two folks that have both previously appeared to be honorable and decent members of this forum and others. I would expect that two honest men could arrive at an honest and fair conclusion.

 

[MCRIDER007]

A good, and fair response.

Agreed.

When I originally responded to this thread I was still stinging from a deal gone sour with my friend WheatonFJR where he was definitely misled and narrowly avoided getting cheated on a bike that was clearly not as represented. In hindsight I wish I had been a little more restrained in my initial post.

I will also say that I did not know who the seller was, I always thought of Pterodactyl as being a decent and stand up guy. I was shocked when I found out afterwards. I did not edit my post because if I already said it, there was no point in crawfishing. It was out there.

I would urge both parties to take a step back, try to come to a mutual agreement. I cannot speculate on the expectations or the intentions of either the buyer or the seller. I know we have two folks that have both previously appeared to be honorable and decent members of this forum and others. I would expect that two honest men could arrive at an honest and fair conclusion.

I also agree because what really occurred was a fairly significant difference in opinion as to the bike's condition...which certainly is not unusual. I can't even express an opinion on what I think the answer should be since I have never seen the bike nor was I privy to any communication between the buyer and the seller regarding the condition. However, based on the information provided in this thread by both the buyer and seller I am having a hard time seeing the rationale for the term "Ripped Off" and think a more appropriate title would be "Very Disappointed".

What Skyway did to 20 members of this forum some 10 years ago turned out to be a "rip off", even if he didn't originally intend it to be that way, especially after he failed to follow though on his promise to reimburse everyone after they shipped the already provided items back to him (at their expense). A disagreement about whether a bike is in excellent or average condition is just that...a disagreement...that hopefully can be resolved between the buyer and seller.