2014 with serious problem

[Fs2]

my bike has approximately 8500 miles. i am the second owner and have had no trouble up to this point.
i had trouble recently where the bike when trying to start seemed to labor as though the battery was weak.
i tried to push start it but it did not start. tried again the electric start and it fired up and seemed to run normal. made the 20 minute ride home no problem.
hooked it up to trickle charge over night. next day tried to start and though it turned over the engine it would not start.
after many attempts without starting i delved into troubleshooting and eventually came here to look for help.
without listing all the things i tried i put the bike in the shop (certified Yamaha dealer) last week because of code 44 on display.
the shop called yesterday saying it had a serious problem.

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- Work performed by dealer -
Description: code 44 LPR 5/24 - Spun engine over and sounds like it does not have compression. - Performed compression test which failed.
Compression test:
1 - 45psi (left most cylinder)
2 - 40psi
3 - 30psi
4 - 35psi -

technician comment:
I don't know if an upper engine cleaning will work but that is the only other thing we can try. If that does not work then customer will need to bring bike somewhere for engine rebuild

---

i searched here for threads regarding code: 44. no mention of upper engine cleaning or engine rebuild.
the bike has low mileage and previous owner recorded about 3000 miles before selling it to me in 2017.

anyone heard of such a problem as this.
thanks to all here for any help.

 

[chazglenn3]

I seriously doubt the bike would run at all with compression that low. Hopefully so others chime in soon...

 

[RossKean]

New one to me. If the engine is FUBAR (get another opinion!!), it is cheaper to get a good used engine on eBay than to rebuild.
Never heard of an engine that messed up with even ten times that much mileage.
Never heard of someone doing an upper engine cleaning, either.

Laboring start could be weak battery or starter - might need to check out current draw with a clamp-on DC ammeter.
Spin but no start might be flooded - see Fast Starter Syndrome on the forum. Usually cranking with WOT (wide open throttle) and a fully charged battery will eventually clear it.

That is WAY low for compression. Either test was messed up or something broke! Wouldn't run that low!

 

[Road_Runner]

I don't understand.... the engine spun over slowly for you, but the shop says it spun like it had no compression? Did they perform the compression test with a good, strong battery?

Is "fault code 44" not the suspension control unit?

What is an "upper engine cleaning" going to accomplish? Carbon on the exhaust seats maybe? Wouldn't happen all of a sudden, and don't think this would be an issue with 8500 miles. Certainly not all of a sudden on all four cylinders at once. Timing chain could have slipped I guess leaving valves open during compression.

 

[tschutter]

I haven't heard of an issue like this but something is really fishy. That bike is barely broke-in. I'd get another opinion - different shop. I wouldn't take the bike for repairs where you had the compression tested. You need a mechanic that has been around the block a few times. Good luck with your search.

 

[Ignacio]

BIke goes from not running, to running fine, to then super low compresion that's pretty similarly low in each cylinder? I'd be suspicious of that part of the diagnoses. Seems more likely and electrical issue to me. Something doesn't add up here. I'd get another opinion too.

 

[Auburn]

a low battery will cause all sorts of codes to trigger that make no sense. The compression number make me wonder if the tech knows how to do one correctly. I would install a new battery and reset the code and see if everything clears up. If it still runs badly, then do another compression test followed by a leak down test to see if you can pinpoint where the leak is, exhaust, intake, head gasket, etc. But you need to find a better mechanic for both of those tests.

 

[BigOgre]

I agree with starting with the basics. Charge and pull the batt then take it to a local auto parts place and have it load tested. If that shows bad then try a new/good battery and go from there.

 

[Papa54]

It sounds like your mechanic doesn't know what he's doing. If he cranked the engine to run a compression test, first did he have the throttle wide open, second did he crank long enough to let his guage build all the way up. If that engine only had around 45psi per cylinder, it would barely run. Then for him to recommend an engine rebuild when you only have 8500 miles on it sounds like he trying to pull one over on ya.

 

[escapefjrtist]

You mentioned the engine labored to start. Original battery? First thing to check is battery health, and change it if suspect. Research threads on fast starter syndrome and the associated hard starting.

With repeated starting attempts, the engine is likely flooded with subsequent reduced compression. Change the plugs and add a few drops of oil in the cylinders to help re-establish the ring seal. WFO throttle with a healthy battery is another cure.

Don't let anyone tear into the engine until you've investigated everything else.

~G

 

[Whooshka]

#1. Install new battery
#2. Clear the code
#3. Try a bottle of Yamaha Ring Free
#4. Find a new shop.

The fact that "certified" Yamaha dealer would tell you to take it somewhere else for a rebuild tells me all they are capable of is oil and tire changes.

 

[RiderJoe]

I agree with others. The diagnosis doesn’t seem logical.
1. With a good battery and low engine compression the starter would not struggle, quite the opposite would happen.
2. When you tried again the engine fired up, and ran fine on your 20 minute ride. You would have noticed if something was awry with the engine compression on that ride.
3. Next day you experienced the same starting problem.

I think that #2 above is a key point which rules out the bad compression diagnosis, and points more towards a battery or an electrical issue. Your engine did not magically loose compression on all four cylinders sitting in the garage overnight. The issue probably started earlier, and the first symptom you noticed was slow cranking, which reoccurred next day.

 

[Ridelikethewind]

Sounds like the "mechanic" wants a new bike, and likes yours! Get a second opinion, like everyone else is saying....after you get a new battery and try again. Where are you located?

 

[Madmudder]

Make sure you have a good battery, do a throttle body sync and if the bike sat for a while drain the fuel & check for varmits in the airbox.

 

[Diablo1]

I agree with starting with the basics. Charge and pull the batt then take it to a local auto parts place and have it load tested. If that shows bad then try a new/good battery and go from there.

This. Also ask the mechanic if he held the throttle open while checking compression. If compression is really that low across all cylinders, I would check cam timing.

 

[Paul Miles]

Everyone above seems on the right path. 1-New battery for sure. 2- We're assuming the oil level is correct. 3-Compression test (as mentioned) seems suspicious. 4- SOMETHING NO ONE HAS MENTIONED.... Pop the tank and unbolt the fuel pump. Check the screen! It's something I've seen often on 10 year old bikes. And it's easy and cheap to check. Best wishes and keep us posted.

 

[RossKean]

I really don't think the bike is likely to be that badly messed up.
#1 - Find a competent technician! I find it difficult to believe his findings.

Compression numbers make no sense to me unless timing got messed up and pistons hit valves - no reason for that to happen unless a cam chain tensioner went bad (unheard of for a Gen III) or someone backed it off for some reason - had any work been done on it? EXACTLY what did the dealer do except supposedly run a compression test?

Could still be battery, flooded engine or starter.

Pop the tank and unbolt the fuel pump. Check the screen!

While this might make the bike start with difficulty and run poorly, I don't see how it could cause low compression or cause the engine to labor to turn over.

 

[Paul Miles]

I really don't think the bike is likely to be that badly messed up.
#1 - Find a competent technician! I find it difficult to believe his findings.

Compression numbers make no sense to me unless timing got messed up and pistons hit valves - no reason for that to happen unless a cam chain tensioner went bad (unheard of for a Gen III) or someone backed it off for some reason - had any work been done on it? EXACTLY what did the dealer do except supposedly run a compression test?

Could still be battery, flooded engine or starter.

While this might make the bike start with difficulty and run poorly, I don't see how it could cause low compression or cause the engine to labor to turn over.

I think this one has multiple issues. Another thing to always check are the tank vent lines for blockage/ kinks. IMHO, the compression #s seem weird and (if the batt is older than 2 years) needs to be replaced too. Happy hunting... I don't think there is a silver bullet, single answer to solve this one.

 

[RossKean]

(if the batt is older than 2 years) needs to be replaced too.

My OEM battery (2011) is currently at 12 years and 160,000 km - but an underperforming battery is still a good possibility.
At the very least, I would have it load tested.

 

[Super13]

I seriously doubt the bike would run at all with compression that low. Hopefully so others chime in soon...

How old is your battery? These bikes love a strong battery. IMHO.