Another no start...well starts after a few pushes of the button

[flphil]

The symptoms I am having are very much like the one in this recent thread

• After turning the key, and hearing the "boot up", when I hit the starter button, I hear the fuel rail charge again but nothing from the starter. All the lights on the dash are normal including warning light.
• Usually, I can hit the starter button one or 2 more times and it starts just like normal. This morning it took about 8 attempts.
• Sometimes, it starts on the first push of the button.
• I can find no pattern of engine cold or hot or not riding for a few days or just ridden to the store. The starter not turning on seems to be completely random.
• In the other thread, the FJR would not start at all. Mine does start, just not always on the first attempt.
• My symptoms have been going on for over a year but have progressively gotten worse.
• I always start the bike in neutral so the kick stand should not play into it.

I just went outside to see if I could provide some more detail and it started up right away on first push of the button. Since the starter works fine when it finally gets kicked on, I am thinking it is not a starter issue. My first thought is a starter relay. I could not tell from the other thread if the relay was part of the solenoid if there was another separate relay that fed power to the solenoid. I am at a loss because it is so random. Hoping someone has had the exact same issue but even if you haven't I am interested in any thoughts you may have.

 

[Geezer]

What year FJR? How old is the battery?

 

[SLK50]

My first guess is dirt or corrosion in the start button.

Remove and clean first, then report back.

 

[flphil]

07 72k miles. Battery fairly new. I purchased one hoping that was the problem. Shouldn't be a battery issue because once the starter "lights" it turns at normal speed. I can clean button but it seems to me it is working because I hear the fuel rail charge and the warning light goes off each time that I hit the button. Just went outside again and it took 5 pushed before it started.

 

[RossKean]

Are you saying no start (but it cranks) or no crank when you hit the button?

No start can be fuel or spark assuming the starter motor is turning it over fast enough. Could also be "flooded" - see fast starter syndrome.

No crank can be dirty start switch, ignition switch or starter solenoid (or a funky connection between the switch and solenoid or between the solenoid and starter. Could be a really crapped up commutator (or brushes) in the starter. Could also be a dirty sidestand switch or clutch switch - starting in neutral, clutch pulled, side stand up/down etc. All makes a difference.

Battery is unlikely to be bad but strange things have been known to happen if the connections are not clean and tight!!

Since it is intermittent, I would look for dirty switches, and corroded connectors first. Followed by some wire wiggling and playing with a multimeter. Easier to find and fix if it fails all the time!

You have a bunch of testing to do...

 

[road runner]

Starter relay!!!

 

[YummYam]

Problem with mine was starter. Would barely crank sometimes, worse when hot though. Starter was pretty clean inside, no oil, brushes looked good etc.

Cleaned it up, skimmed the comm, fitted new brushes, seal and o rings, now cranks like a champ. Go figure.

As RossKean says, a bunch of testing to be done.

Seek and ye shall find.

 

[flphil]

Thanks for the info. By no start I mean no crank. Starter does not click or anything. Then I push the button again and it cranks and starts right up.

 

[Panman]

Relay is under the right flat panel take your volt meter and check the lead closest to the battery for how many volts when you push the starter button. Then check the starter side, if you see much of a drop it's most likely the starter relay.

Been there and done that.

 

[flphil]

I probably won't get a chance until next week but I will check it out and let you know what I find.

 

[philter]

If it was the relay {solenoid} OR the starter, you should hear a "click" when you hit the button.

If the relay has corrosion on the contacts there should still be a "click" ,as it engages, and if the relay is good, and the starter is the culprit, the relay should still "click".

Are you SURE there is no click?

If there really is no "click", it is something "upstream" of the relay, Probably the starter "button" or the key switch.

 

[RossKean]

At this point, we can guess all we want but the appropriate testing is needed. (No crank can be simpler than crank but no start)

Key switch (try wiggling the key in "no start" condition) Has ignition switch recall been done?

Starter button (clean with contact cleaner)

Kill switch (clean)

Sidestand switch interlock (unless starting in neutral) Check with diag function, clean

Clutch switch (if starting in gear with SS up and clutch lever pulled) - make sure you are in neutral, clean switch

Neutral indicator switch - neutral light comes on in neutral?

Multifunction interlock relay (up front)- not broken since it works sometimes but might have funky connection

Bad connector somewhere along the line - good luck! Separate and use good contact cleaner

Broken wire somewhere - always a challenge - thankfully not common

Connection to battery or chassis ground (can be OK for light loads and be unable to deliver current but would get trip odo/clock reset and gauge "sweep")

Starter solenoid/relay (pretty fair chance on this one)

Commutator or brushes in starter motor

Any ground "spider" symptoms? Hi beam indicator on without hi beams, both signal lights on dash dimly lit, non-functioning windshield mechanism or glove box solenoid etc.?

And probably a few things not (yet) mentioned...

I assume that you are fairly new to the FJR??

 

[flphil]

Key switch (try wiggling the key in "no start" condition) Has ignition switch recall been done? Ignition switch recall done. I tried wiggling and on/off but this only turns everything off or on. With my issue, everything is on and appears normal, just that the starter does not trigger.
Starter button (clean with contact cleaner) Will do. Going out of town tomorrow so it will have to be next week.
Kill switch (clean) Same
Sidestand switch interlock (unless starting in neutral) Check with diag function, clean I always start in neutral.
Clutch switch (if starting in gear with SS up and clutch lever pulled) - make sure you are in neutral, clean switch
Neutral indicator switch - neutral light comes on in neutral? Yes
Multifunction interlock relay (up front)- not broken since it works sometimes but might have funky connection. Will check
Bad connector somewhere along the line - good luck! Separate and use good contact cleaner. That will be fun to trace.
Broken wire somewhere - always a challenge - thankfully not common. Hopefully not this.
Connection to battery or chassis ground (can be OK for light loads and be unable to deliver current but would get trip odo/clock reset and gauge "sweep"). This is certainly a possibility. One of the things I wondered about is if there was a threshold voltage/current for the starter to become active. This would probably be more likely if the ECU triggered the starter and from what I have read on the forum, this does not appear to be the case.
Starter solenoid/relay (pretty fair chance on this one) I'm thinking the same thing.
Commutator or brushes in starter motor

Any ground "spider" symptoms? Hi beam indicator on without hi beams, both signal lights on dash dimly lit, non-functioning windshield mechanism or glove box solenoid etc.? All other electrical appears fine.

And probably a few things not (yet) mentioned...

I assume that you are fairly new to the FJR?? Yes and no. I have owned the bike since new and I have 72k on it so no in that sense. But, the FJR has been so reliable that I haven't had to do anything but brakes, batteries, oil changes and tires. So, new to doing any real work on it. The only exception is I had to put a new fork seal in it. I currently own 12 motorcycles and have been riding for 35 years. Most of the current bikes are vintage dirt bikes so the only starter issues are my old legs.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

Where are you located?

 

[jtnwevo]

On my 07 the starter relay near the battery started doing this at around 60,000 miles. I put up with it for a while but it got worse and after swapping the relay it starts every time I hit the button. The relay is cheap and easy to replace. Just my experience.

 

[dcarver]

https://candybuttorg.ipage.com/cba/node/510

https://candybuttorg.ipage.com/pix/motobikes/wrenching/Fjr1300/2016-12-10_StarterRelay/13.jpg

 

[flphil]

Great stuff everyone. I am going to go ahead and replace the relay. I will let everyone know if that does the trick. I'm in Jacksonville FL.

 

[Panman]

Did you test it? Just don't replace it!

If you do replace it make sure you orient it the correct direction. When you get one, there are two fuse's in it one is a spare fore replacing the ABS fuse the other is the ABS module fuse. Put it in backwards and you'll feel like a "DUMB ASS" when you pay someone to figure out why you are getting a ABS Red Warning Light.

JSNS

 

[flphil]

Thanks Panman for the info. I can get the multimeter out for testing first.

This morning I noticed something new after it did not start on the first push if the button. I pushed a couple more times and would hear the electrical whirring noise that I hear each time. Same thing we here when turning on the key. I always thought that it was the fuel rail charging. But this time while sitting on it for a few seconds before hitting the start button again, I heard a much fainter whirring noise on the right side near the back of the engine. This sound occurred with the key on but without me doing anything. I am thinking that this was the fuel rail charging and the other noise is just the dash initializing. Anyway I hit the start button and it started right up. I seem to remember the same thing happen before. What controls the fuel rail/pump. Is it the ECU or a relay? This would appear to take the problem away from the starter circuit and more of an issue when turning the key I think.