Be on the lookout for these two bad assses.

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Niehart

Pie Smuggler
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
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Location
Pacific Northwet [Woodinville, WA]
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~G [also goes under the name of escapefjrtist and George]

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Mr. Retired [also goes under the name of Fontanaman or Jim]

Both are deceptively fast in the corners, have dialed in suspensions and new tires. They might be hard to catch.

And yes I'm jealous as hell of both of them.

 
Well I have an ES now and there isn't much to dial in.  The suspension is the only part of my '17 I am not thrilled with.  It is not that the suspension is bad it is just not performance oriented.  It doesn't slow me down but it doesn't put a smile on my face either.

Having a great time out here with ~G.  We expect a bit of the wet stuff tomorrow and have changed our plans accordingly.

 
Well I have an ES now and there isn't much to dial in.  The suspension is the only part of my '17 I am not thrilled with.  It is not that the suspension is bad it is just not performance oriented.  It doesn't slow me down but it doesn't put a smile on my face either.

Having a great time out here with ~G.  We expect a bit of the wet stuff tomorrow and have changed our plans accordingly.
Thanks. Sure sounds like YMMV on ES investments and expectations.

 
Trust me on this Bounce, those two have upgrade plan for the stock ES suspension. They have a used ES shock that they have been going over with a fine tooth comb to figure out what they want & can do to it.

 
Couple 'ol pharts. Great trip so far and...Niehart likes to embellish bit too!

~G
+1  Very good trip. My 17 has a new name, The Buick, as ~G watched the back end wallowing around like a Buick Le Sabre.  I had the preload set higher and the damping lower.  Haven't found the ideal combination yet, but it maybe a higher preload and standard damping.

 
Trust me on this Bounce, those two have upgrade plan for the stock ES suspension. They have a used ES shock that they have been going over with a fine tooth comb to figure out what they want & can do to it.
So, which is most appropriate is up to each rider? The extra money for an ES and then the extra to upgrade that or the A and the extra money to upgrade?

 
So, which is most appropriate is up to each rider? The extra money for an ES and then the extra to upgrade that or the A and the extra money to upgrade?
Yes the direction is up the each person and their wants and needs.

I road my ES to Red Lodge from Spokane and for the first time used proper sag settings and found appropriate damping settings.   The the ES is ok but not as good as aftermarket suspension.   At the best possible settings I found the suspension more abrupt and less fluid than the after market suspension on my 09.

It is possible to upgrade the ES with a spring but with only four preload settings the risk is not having the ability to set the preload to meet the needs aka one or two up.  Too light of spring it may not work for one up and too much spring maybe excessive for two up. 

Before removing the ES rear shock the Factory Service Manual advises executing the diagnostic mode code number 84 to adjust the preload home position to "00" using the Yamaha diagnostic tool.   I don't have this tool or the knowledge how to use it, even with the FSR on hand.   I have heard removing the ES rear shock is a PIA.  I have reviewed the FSR and may not have the ability to successfully remove and replace the rear shock and even if I do I may not get the results I want.  No one knows how well the ES damping will work with a different heavier spring and having only 4 preload settings is far from ideal.

The upside of the ES is the forks are virtually maintenance free other than fluid changes (no recommended frequency given by Yamaha).  FJR A model forks have bushings that need replacing periodically - perhaps every 30k miles. 

I am looking at getting a 16 or newer model A.  I like everything about my 17 except the ES.   Give me shock I can remove and replace.  Give me a Penske with a 850 lbs spring with separate settings for compression and rebound damping.  I will add fork cartridges of some sort and live with changing the fork bushing periodically.  As I said in another post I want my sports car back.

Hope this helps.

 
Can you leave the ES on the front and put a Penske on the rear?  You would probably have to do something to make it "think" the rear ES shock was still there. I would expect that would get you back to expected performance.  You would still have the adjustment and USD front. 

Out of curiosity,  have you tried someone else's ES?  Just in case there is something wrong with yours?

 
Can you leave the ES on the front and put a Penske on the rear?  You would probably have to do something to make it "think" the rear ES shock was still there. I would expect that would get you back to expected performance.  You would still have the adjustment and USD front. 

Out of curiosity,  have you tried someone else's ES?  Just in case there is something wrong with yours?
Disconnecting the electronics at the rear shock and adding a Penske may cause an error message to the dashboard, not sure but don't care find out, cause I don't have the tools to clear error codes.  And that is the rub, I don't want this complication from my suspension.  And it is $3000 + to replace the rear shock - my understanding is they are not serviceable.  I can remove an A model shock myself. A Penske is serviceable.

No I have not tried another ES.  Given my 09 had an 850 lb spring and the ES has a 685 lb spring, and considering the sag measurements I have taken and posted I doubt anything is wrong with this ES other than it is under sprung for my size, weight and preferences.  The damping adjustments work; there is a big difference at soft -2 and standard 0 with preload set to two helmets, so I am confident the damping is working.

Couple more thoughts.  When my wife goes with me today the bike is slow and heavy in the turns - not as quick like my 09 with aftermarket suspension because the beast is under sprung.  I road my 09 about 75,000 miles with aftermarket suspension and I am learning, once again, motorcycle suspension is significant user interface between the rider, the motorcycle and the road.  After so many miles on the 09 I forget how good I had it and the importance I place on performance suspension.  I want my FJR on rails.

To sum it up, you know how you get on the throttle and a smile comes to your face?  I want the same smile from my suspension and it is missing with the ES.  I used to have it and it gone and I want it back.

 
I guess I am spoiled with my AK-20's and Penske combo on my 2011.  Far better than stock but I have never tried an ES.

 
Disconnecting the electronics at the rear shock and adding a Penske may cause an error message to the dashboard, not sure but don't care find out, cause I don't have the tools to clear error codes.  And that is the rub, I don't want this complication from my suspension.  And it is $3000 + to replace the rear shock - my understanding is they are not serviceable.  I can remove an A model shock myself. A Penske is serviceable.
Exactly the same conclusion I was reaching... but with Ohlins or Works.

 
Disconnecting the electronics at the rear shock and adding a Penske may cause an error message to the dashboard, not sure but don't care find out, cause I don't have the tools to clear error codes.  And that is the rub, I don't want this complication from my suspension.  And it is $3000 + to replace the rear shock - my understanding is they are not serviceable.  I can remove an A model shock myself. A Penske is serviceable.

No I have not tried another ES.  Given my 09 had an 850 lb spring and the ES has a 685 lb spring, and considering the sag measurements I have taken and posted I doubt anything is wrong with this ES other than it is under sprung for my size, weight and preferences.  The damping adjustments work; there is a big difference at soft -2 and standard 0 with preload set to two helmets, so I am confident the damping is working.

Couple more thoughts.  When my wife goes with me today the bike is slow and heavy in the turns - not as quick like my 09 with aftermarket suspension because the beast is under sprung.  I road my 09 about 75,000 miles with aftermarket suspension and I am learning, once again, motorcycle suspension is significant user interface between the rider, the motorcycle and the road.  After so many miles on the 09 I forget how good I had it and the importance I place on performance suspension.  I want my FJR on rails.

To sum it up, you know how you get on the throttle and a smile comes to your face?  I want the same smile from my suspension and it is missing with the ES.  I used to have it and it gone and I want it back.
The BMW dynamic shocks are similar in price to the FJR's.  Ted Porter at the BeemerShop is able to transfer the electronics from the OE Beemer shocks to new shocks. He is one of the best informed people I know of when it comes to suspension.  Despite the name of his shop he works with all makes of bikes.  Ted is also great at responding to emails (sometimes he will return an email with a call) and patient in explaining your options.  Perhaps he can do the same thing by transfering the electronics from an OE FJR shock to a new one.

https://www.beemershop.com/category/motorcycle-suspension-center.html

 
I agree mostly with Fontanaman.  I have always been a huge advocate of the ES suspension, but now with additional miles and seat time have some reservations.  It is still a great suspension, but biased towards comfort.  If like FM and I, you have had a well set up aftermarket suspension and like to ride hard, you may be a bit disappointed in the ES.  If you don't drag pegs or come close, the ES is still most likely the way to go.  I am a bit lighter then FM and don't dislike it as much as he.  Perhaps I am not as sophisticated in my suspension evaluation.  

On Beartooth Highway and Chief Joseph Scenic Byway while one up and unloaded and shredding the curves I found that setting it at One person + luggage preload, and 'hard' damping gave pretty damned good performance.  Perhaps not quite as good as my 09 with Ohlines, and Racetech.  But I had that bike set up overly stiff, going one step higher on shock and fork springs than recommended.  And it has trade offs.  It is pretty harsh one up.  But dialed in for a track days, loaded, and two up.  In Europe last summer in the south of France and in the Pyrenees, for the first time in my life I wore the sides of the tires more than the center.  And they T31s were toast at 3600 miles.  Also a record for me.  Lots of two-up, heavily loaded, hard riding.  The 09's stiff aftermarket suspension performed flawlessly.  In fact that suspension handles better two-up than one-up.

I still need to try two-up on the ES but I did do some two-up riding on the '16 ES I previously had and didn't think it was a problem.  And perhaps with two-up riding, more comfort is better than outright aggressive performance.

An ES suspension is a compromise that works well for most folks.  You can't dial it in exactly, but how many folks do that?  For most folks who don't fiddle with their suspension because of the PITA factor, they are afraid to mess with it, or don't know how, the easy push button selection on the ES is an excellent solution that works pretty well.  Especially if they change frequently between one-up, two-up, and loaded often.  The one caveat there is if you are loading the FJR with a  lot of weight (heavy rider, heavy passenger) it may not be adequate for you.  But then neither is the stock 'A' model suspension I would guess.

If you ride hard, like performance suspensions and like tweaking them, and getting them dialed in, then get an 'A' model and upgrade with the aftermarket.  You'll find the ES suspension biased too much towards comfort.

Maybe one day I will bite the bullet on the 'PITA factor' and actually measure my SAG measurements on the '17 and '14 ES FJRs I own.  But don't hold your breath.....

The other aspect he brings up about maintenance I have not looked into.  If the ES shock is truly a huge PITA to remove, then that will piss me off.  Of course replacing it is a really $$$$ proposition that pisses me off.  Hopefully neither of those things need to happen in the normal life of the FJR.  So far, anecdotal evidence seems to support that.

With 5 FJRs in my garage currently and 1 in Europe I am no hurry to get another!  Honest!  Really!  I swear to Bustanut Joker! 

But someday...... I could see trying to get a cheap, low-mile '18 'A' model and upgrading with aftermarket suspension. 

 
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