johnny80s
Turtle Gears
You just twist it and it will spring into position. You will feel it unwind.About that internal screw in the CCToes it rotate as the plunger moves?
If not, how many times do I turn it CCW after the CCT is installed?
Thanks.
Gen1 Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) Replacement Lessons Learned
- Thread starter FJRBluesman
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Geezer
Parsimonious Curmudgeon
About that internal screw in the CCT
If not, how many times do I turn it CCW after the CCT is installed?
Thanks.
The screw rotates under spring tension as the plunger moves out. You can let it unwind slowly by holding a small screwdriver in the screw slot and let the spring turn gently until it stops. Then apply just a little more tension to make sure the plunger is applying tension to the chain.
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
Turning the "screw" Clockwise retracts the plunger away from the cam chain guide, removing tension from the chain, so DON'T run the bike with the plunger retracted.About that internal screw in the CCT
If not, how many times do I turn it CCW after the CCT is installed?
Thanks.
If one were to turn the "screw" fully clockwise, you'll reach a point where the screw bottoms out and will lock in place.
To extend the plunger back to its "normal" position, you only have to turn it CCW enough to unlock it from its fixed position and it will spring back to the maximum extended position as allowed by the slack of the chain and position of the guide.
Assuming everything works the way it's supposed to, as soon as you nudge the screw CCW, the plunge will unlock and "jump" into position. You'll know it, because the screwdriver you're using will try to rotate CCW in your hand.
Theoretically, you shouldn't have to turn the screw CCW at all, other than the nudge it takes to unlock it from the fully retracted position. If it does NOT return after you've turned the screw clockwise, then there's something wrong with the CCT.
DON'T RUN THE BIKE until you're 100% sure the CCT plunger has extended to its "normally running" position.
Harvey
Well-known member
I changed mine today. The heat finally let up and I left the whole day free, just in case.
It was the original part with 64K miles on it.
Couldn't get to the bottom bolt with wobble extension or even the magic 8mm wrench.
I went to Sears and bought two 8mm 12-point box-end wrenches that were slightly different.
I needed both wrenches, switching back and forth but it finally worked.
Thank you for all the work you have done to help us with this.
Yamaha did not make this easy for us.
It was the original part with 64K miles on it.
Couldn't get to the bottom bolt with wobble extension or even the magic 8mm wrench.
I went to Sears and bought two 8mm 12-point box-end wrenches that were slightly different.
I needed both wrenches, switching back and forth but it finally worked.
Thank you for all the work you have done to help us with this.
Yamaha did not make this easy for us.
Jeff Q
Well-known member
Yeah that bottom bolt sux
FJRMGM
FJRMGM
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thanks to the excellent instructions and advice on getting the 6" 1/4 inch drive wobble extension and the 8mm ratcheting wrench this was a relatively easy job to do.
It also helps to have small hands to get the bolts out and started again.
At 69,700 miles my '05 FJR is now much quieter than it was before the replacement.
thanks again for the great instructions.
It also helps to have small hands to get the bolts out and started again.
At 69,700 miles my '05 FJR is now much quieter than it was before the replacement.
thanks again for the great instructions.
JamesK
Got to ride
Simon,
Thanks for the great write-up.
You didn't mention how you locked the chain in place while doing the CCT swap. Jeff Ashe in a different post cautioned to remove the engine cover and ziptie the chain to the guides to prevent it from jumping a tooth - just want to double check.
Thanks for the great write-up.
You didn't mention how you locked the chain in place while doing the CCT swap. Jeff Ashe in a different post cautioned to remove the engine cover and ziptie the chain to the guides to prevent it from jumping a tooth - just want to double check.
FJRBluesman
Some call me... The STIG!
You're welcome.
I did NOT lock my chain down. I didn't believe anything would happen, never crossed my mind. It appears others have had some issues though. One recurring theme to me is the ones that had a chain slip during CCT replacement were also doing a valve check and had everything TDC etc. Not sure if that's coincidence or that contributed to it. Others have also done it without issue, not tying up the chain. That being said, if I were to do this again, I would tie up the chain like Jeff mentions by removing timing cover and using a tie-wrap or something. It's only a few more bolts and minutes to do, and the cost of a gasket, for piece of mind.
Good luck.
dcarver
Well-known member
Simon-living-dangerously-FjrBluesman!
ionbeam
2 FUN
If you were to take your FJR to a dealer to have the CCT replaced I'm pretty sure they would follow the FSM -- remove two screws, remove the CCT, to install reverse the procedure.
I wonder how many (if any) FJR engines went kaboom at the dealerships.
I wonder how many (if any) FJR engines went kaboom at the dealerships.
Zorlac
Well-known member
Ignorance was bliss, I just swapped it and got lucky I guess.
I think I'd jam a block of wood in where Howie suggested to keep tension on the chain if I had to do it over. :dribble:
I think I'd jam a block of wood in where Howie suggested to keep tension on the chain if I had to do it over. :dribble:
FJRBluesman
Some call me... The STIG!
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I'll add my CCT replacement notes here, for lack of a better place.
After the horror stories of ionbeam, Howie and Patriot, I had meant to get this CCT replacement done last winter. It didn't happen then, and my bike is now at 40k miles. Enough with the procrastination. When I looked up the tensioner part number, it automatically changed up to the new updated unit. The new style tensioner (p/n 5JW-12210-10-00 ) and the little gasket that goes under it from Zanotti for $74 and $2. I also ordered a replacement gasket for the timing chain cover, but as it turned out, I didn't need to use either of the gaskets.
There is already plenty f of good info on doing the actual job. It really wasn't all that tricky. I did followed the advice that I picked up from someone on here, and jammed a socket (turned out to be a 10mm 1/4" drive ) behind the chain guide (on the left hand tensioner side) so that when I de-tensioned the CCT the chain could not go slack and allow the timing to be disturbed. Here's a 1000 words on that (worked great):
Once I had the CCT out, I compared it on the bench to the newer / updated unit. The new unit came with the tensioner pinned in the fully open position by a small Tee shaped piece of metal jammed into the adjustment hole end. Here's a look at the old vs new style tensioners fully retracted:
The lower one (with the blue dot) is the newer style assembly. You can see the tee shaped metal keeper sticking out from the right end of it. You'll also notice that the new style seems to extend about twice as far on the (left) operating end when fully retracted.
Being an inquisitive type, I had to play with the two tensioners and compare their tension and feel. First I released them both fully, and was surprised to find that the both extend the exact same amount when fully extended:
When re-winding them up, the old tensioner still had pretty good spring tension as compared to the one I had borrowed from ionbeam and played with previously. Which I guess should not be too surprising, since my bike has never made any sort of rude marbles in a can sound to date. But the torsional tension to wind up the newer style tensioner is significantly greater than the old style one. It was actually a bit difficult winding the new one up using the small tweaker / screwdriver I was using.
One strage thing about the new style one is that even after fully rewinding the spring, there is no "catch" to hold the thing in the wound position, like the old style had. You need to re-install the keeper to hold it retracted for installation.
Another feature of the new one is that, while the old one feels very smooth and silky while retracting, the new one appears to have some "tooth" left on the machined spiral ramps, so as you wind the spring it feels a little "gritty" and ratchety. I'm guessing that this is intentional, and that they left some machining marks on the spiral ramp and follower to act as a micro-ratcheting device, so the CCT can't be forced backwards easily once extended. Kind'a like what we were all taking about with the ratcheting style CCT.
The added spring tension alone seems reason enough to upgrade to the new style tensioner, but the gritty / micro ratcheting may be what makes the new unit even better in performance. It was definitely quite different, whether intentional or not.
Oh, and the bike still ran OK when I got done... which is a big plus. :yahoo:
Although not particularly germane to this discussion, I also replaced my air filter today ($22). Here's how an old filter with 16k miles on it looks compared to a new one. Not much light getting through the old one:
And I also replace my (non-iridium) spark plugs after 16k miles. The old plugs still looked darned good. The gap was even still within spec.
FWIW, neither plugs or filter made a bit of difference to how the bike runs, as far as I can tell.
After the horror stories of ionbeam, Howie and Patriot, I had meant to get this CCT replacement done last winter. It didn't happen then, and my bike is now at 40k miles. Enough with the procrastination. When I looked up the tensioner part number, it automatically changed up to the new updated unit. The new style tensioner (p/n 5JW-12210-10-00 ) and the little gasket that goes under it from Zanotti for $74 and $2. I also ordered a replacement gasket for the timing chain cover, but as it turned out, I didn't need to use either of the gaskets.
There is already plenty f of good info on doing the actual job. It really wasn't all that tricky. I did followed the advice that I picked up from someone on here, and jammed a socket (turned out to be a 10mm 1/4" drive ) behind the chain guide (on the left hand tensioner side) so that when I de-tensioned the CCT the chain could not go slack and allow the timing to be disturbed. Here's a 1000 words on that (worked great):
Once I had the CCT out, I compared it on the bench to the newer / updated unit. The new unit came with the tensioner pinned in the fully open position by a small Tee shaped piece of metal jammed into the adjustment hole end. Here's a look at the old vs new style tensioners fully retracted:
The lower one (with the blue dot) is the newer style assembly. You can see the tee shaped metal keeper sticking out from the right end of it. You'll also notice that the new style seems to extend about twice as far on the (left) operating end when fully retracted.
Being an inquisitive type, I had to play with the two tensioners and compare their tension and feel. First I released them both fully, and was surprised to find that the both extend the exact same amount when fully extended:
When re-winding them up, the old tensioner still had pretty good spring tension as compared to the one I had borrowed from ionbeam and played with previously. Which I guess should not be too surprising, since my bike has never made any sort of rude marbles in a can sound to date. But the torsional tension to wind up the newer style tensioner is significantly greater than the old style one. It was actually a bit difficult winding the new one up using the small tweaker / screwdriver I was using.
One strage thing about the new style one is that even after fully rewinding the spring, there is no "catch" to hold the thing in the wound position, like the old style had. You need to re-install the keeper to hold it retracted for installation.
Another feature of the new one is that, while the old one feels very smooth and silky while retracting, the new one appears to have some "tooth" left on the machined spiral ramps, so as you wind the spring it feels a little "gritty" and ratchety. I'm guessing that this is intentional, and that they left some machining marks on the spiral ramp and follower to act as a micro-ratcheting device, so the CCT can't be forced backwards easily once extended. Kind'a like what we were all taking about with the ratcheting style CCT.
The added spring tension alone seems reason enough to upgrade to the new style tensioner, but the gritty / micro ratcheting may be what makes the new unit even better in performance. It was definitely quite different, whether intentional or not.
Oh, and the bike still ran OK when I got done... which is a big plus. :yahoo:
Although not particularly germane to this discussion, I also replaced my air filter today ($22). Here's how an old filter with 16k miles on it looks compared to a new one. Not much light getting through the old one:
And I also replace my (non-iridium) spark plugs after 16k miles. The old plugs still looked darned good. The gap was even still within spec.
FWIW, neither plugs or filter made a bit of difference to how the bike runs, as far as I can tell.
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
Great info, Fred! I, too, am surprised that the actual fully-extended length isn't any different, but the increase in spring tension from old to new is a definite improvement.
It may be that the decrease in range of the extension is what lets them crank in more spring tension.
I know that you can do the same thing with the old design, just by pre-loading the spring more during assembling.
But it may cause the spring to be over-wound to the point of binding when cranked all the way in then.
I know that you can do the same thing with the old design, just by pre-loading the spring more during assembling.
But it may cause the spring to be over-wound to the point of binding when cranked all the way in then.
Patriot
Isabella is Lazarus
good stuff, Fred
thanx
my new used engine still has the original old style CCT in it
I have a new style sitting on my bench...with a 10k engine and all the other confusion going on, I left it alone
wudda been really easy to change it while the engine was sitting on it's shipping pallet, but then I didn't know the significance of blocking the cam chain itself when doing so
I wudda just done the change without pulling off the chain cover
bike just turned 116k and ressurection day was Dec 06, 2009 with 93k plus 10k on the engine as a start, so the engine now has 33k on it
gonna be listening closely, but on the other hand, I would seem obvious it has never had a valve check and is past due
probably should plan to have that done and just replace the CCT at the same time
wonder if Graves Cycle Repair does those and how long it would take as he swapped my engines with absolutely no issues...now that amazes me, but then so does Howie, but tell him I said so
I guess I should search and research opinions on how necessary valve checks are and how often...huuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm...
thanx
my new used engine still has the original old style CCT in it
I have a new style sitting on my bench...with a 10k engine and all the other confusion going on, I left it alone
wudda been really easy to change it while the engine was sitting on it's shipping pallet, but then I didn't know the significance of blocking the cam chain itself when doing so
I wudda just done the change without pulling off the chain cover
bike just turned 116k and ressurection day was Dec 06, 2009 with 93k plus 10k on the engine as a start, so the engine now has 33k on it
gonna be listening closely, but on the other hand, I would seem obvious it has never had a valve check and is past due
probably should plan to have that done and just replace the CCT at the same time
wonder if Graves Cycle Repair does those and how long it would take as he swapped my engines with absolutely no issues...now that amazes me, but then so does Howie, but tell him I said so
I guess I should search and research opinions on how necessary valve checks are and how often...huuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm...
Patriot
Isabella is Lazarus
damn Fred...amazing...are you my long lost older brother who keeps me in check ??? :yahoo:
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
Did Fred just leave the forum???!?!!!?
No way!! I might be your long lost younger, more handsome brother that keep you in check though...
Did Fred just leave the forum???!?!!!?
Call me thick. I'm sure that phrase means something besides the literal obvious, but I sure don't get it.
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