GF wants bike -- help wanted

[exskibum]

Need some more perspective. I already have one, but I'm interested in what you have to offer, even though we've had lots of these threads.

GF has never ridden a motorcycle before. In fact, except for me, she'd only been on one a few times with her older brother years ago. Now, having ridden a lot of pillion with me, she's addicted, and she's actually very good as a complementary rider pushing the FJR or XX through the twisties 2 up (she'll actually weight the inside peg and lean into the turn with me at the right places when I push it). I think she's actually gotten pretty addicted to leaning at speed. She has all her riding gear, and once every 4 to 6 weeks, she decides she wants to own and ride a street bike.

I should probably mention that she's a reasonably good skier. Her dad died when she was young in a car accident, so she didn't have a lot of athletic influence, but she's pretty coordinated and isn't a whiner. While she wouldn't attempt to ski what gets me off, she'll ski the lesser black diamond runs, even with moguls, and is very coachable. However, her admirable doggedness without complaint resulted in a broken ankle this year, when she was just too tired on a last run on something she could normally handle easily. She's an R.N. -- 5'4" and 125.

Normally, I'd be very encouraging of a woman who wants to do this, but I don't want to witness a get off, and know she can sometimes be a "multitasking" cage driver. (Women riders -- I'm really looking forward to your thoughts on this -- I know some women are truly great riders, but as a generalization, your gender is less intensely focused and more capable of multitasking in a cage, and I don't want to see that in her on a bike.)

I've told her that IF she was to do this with my blessing, it's MSF course first, then a commitment to really getting good at this -- that she would have a long way to come. I've also mentioned the bike weight, size and power issue, as well as my belief that she WILL drop whatever she gets, etc. And I've told her an insurance company is likely to ream her in premiums with her being a new rider.

So, today, she goes out shopping and calls me about a bike for sale at the car wash that she's fallen in love with: 2004 Yamaha FZ6 in silver and black. I know the bike she's thinking of, it's very clean, 5000 miles, pretty good price, but that's not how I need to think -- this isn't a bike for me. She just sold her house, so she has the cash. I'm thinking it's the right size, but too much power to start on, though she doesn't have the testosterone to see what kind of HP it will generate at higher revs. (Trying NOT to think from my perspective of loving the thought of having any cool new mechanical shit in the garage.) Hell, I don't even know if she should own a bike, but she wants to be able to go riding with me, sometimes not on pillion, and I'm responsible for introducing her to what we all are addicted to here. Help! Give me some more straight stuff -- pro and con -- to help her understand the decision, and for me to get off the fence.

So, any thoughts on how expensive the insurance is likely to be, women riders' perspectives, other things I haven't thought of?

Thanks in advance,

 

[FJRocket]

I don't have the lady's perspective, but I would discourage anyone from starting on a 600cc powerhouse like the FZ6. Great bike and she might do well, but I'd get a training bike. Get a beater street bike of lower weight and power. Maybe even get BOTH the 6 and a beater bike for her to learn on. If she dumps the sweet FZ6, she's gonna get hurt or tear up her pretty bike. Let her make mistakes on a beater, THEN move up to the 6. I think you BOTH will be glad she's not starting out on a 600cc rocket.

 

[Bike Effects]

I would have disagree with FJRocket. I don't think that the FZ6 power would get her into trouble, as long as she has good judgement and a survival instinct. If she can sit on the bike and flat foot it easily so she doesn't get into trouble with tip-overs and such, it should be fine. There is nothing wrong with a good engine, brakes and suspension.

If she really likes this bike and it "blows her dress up" so to speak, then she deserves it. Just my $.02.

 

[Fallen Jim Rides again]

Actually, I have a friend (who is lurking around here somewhere h34r: ) who pretty much matches that situation. Never operated any motorcycle, rode with brother when younger, multitasks when driving cage, is seriously thinking of jumping in. She rides with me or other members of the group, but prefers the FJR to the Harleys or the ST. At least from the pillion. I don't crowd the environment much when she is on but so far she has been the best kind of pillion, totally invisible save for the time the burr got in her sock and her pants were beating it into her leg.

She is planing to take the MSF sometime in the not to distant future and looking around for a bike.

I (and she, I think) would be interested in input from other riders of that gender and their experiences. Particularly the , more . . ah . . vertically challenged riders.

Ladies; advice?

 

[twowheelnut]

From personal experience:

Wifey and I got motorcycles instead of wedding rings - another story, but we started riding at the same time. Did MSF together, took our DMV test together, practiced on our wee bikes a lot - she on a Rebel 250 and me on a VLX 600. She had that little bugger nailed down PDQ and I quickly out grew the 600. My dealer, Honda Al, just unboxed an ST1100 that made me sport wood so I tossed him the keys to the Rebel and rode home on the ST and gave the VLX to the missus.

Bad move. You see, Patti is a designer and as such she's always searching for new ideas for her work in buildings, nature, yada, yada and as a consequence she tended not to focus on her riding.

Did you ever watch your spouse low side at 35 mph? Not good. Nothing hurt, but the bike and her ego which we dusted off and got back at riding. Well, couple of weeks later while at a stop light, she forgot to drop from 2nd to first and when the light turned, she gassed it, it stalled and down the two went. At that point I said, "That's it, sorry, but you're all done." Marched the VLX down to Honda Al and swapped it for a Wing. Patti much prefers being chauffeured nowadays (when she has a moment or two to spare... <_< ).

My point to this is, get her trained, get her a small bike (250 - 500 cc) and keep her on it for as long as you can. Being a nurse, I'm sure she has great focus, so keep reinforcing that trait as I think the key to learning this sport is mostly about the focus factor.

Good luck!

 

[FJRay]

My wife started on a CX500 Honda after msf and my daughter started on a ex500 kawi after the msf. they both are good riders with the daughter being the more agresive. my wife moved up to a zr7s kawi and loves it. my daughter is selling her bike to go to culinary school. i don't think the fz6 is a bad choice if it fits her and she can control the right wrist. i am much happier having the girls ride there own so i don't have to ride double.

 

[azbikergirl]

Funny, I tried (and succeeded) to talk my brother out of getting a motorcycle because of the dangers, knowing his driving habits. He's a much better driver now than when he was younger, but still. Thinking about someone I care so much for getting on a bike for the first time gives me the heebie jeebies. It'd be different if he had some experience -- don't ask me why.

I do have a woman's perspective, and of course my opinion/advice is start off with a smaller bike (450 or smaller) and definitely take the MSF course. When she's ready to hit the streets, ride with her at first, and go at her pace.

 

[evil_henchman]

It sounds like your GF is a big girl, knows the risks, and has a lot of natural ability. I'd support her getting what ever she wants. Nothing makes me want something more than being told I can't (or even shouldn't) have it....

Living where you do and having your interests I'll be shocked if you tell me you don't have dirt bikes. Or at least have access to some. Take her dirt riding, you'll get a real quick gauge of her abilities and if nothing else, she'll learn what it's like to fall and/or drop the bike without breaking anything (hopefully).

 

[exskibum]

Ok – thanks to all on the Blackbird and FJR sites where I asked for your thoughts. You’ve been extremely helpful in helping me reach a decision, which I’ve discussed with her, and she agrees. I know this subject has been discussed multiple times on these boards, but I got some views and observations I hadn’t seen before, some of which were instrumental in my decision.

So here’s my conclusion. She has to take the MSF class first and decide that after doing that, she really wants to buy a bike and learn to be a good rider. In making that decision to become a rider, she has to be doing it because she wants to ride for the sake of riding, not just to go riding with me. In other words, if, like today, I have things to do that keep me from riding, but she wants to go (assuming she’s advanced enough that she’s not still under my tutelage), then in making the decision to buy a bike, I want her to know that she would take her own bike out and go for a ride – because SHE wants to ride.

As to the decision on what bike to buy, there were some great comments. No doubt, being able to flatfoot a bike at 5'4" limits the choices, but there are other issues even among the bikes that might fit her. I rode dirt bikes when I was younger, but haven’t in years, so I don’t have one to take her out on. Most of the bike comments reinforced my own thoughts, but these two went beyond what I’ve seen in other threads that have dealt with this topic and were the clinchers for me:

“We've all been riding too long to really remember what being a newbie was really like. They don't always HAVE throttle control. Most newbies are usually a bit more ham handed, more abrupt with the throttle, less precise. They've got a lot to get accustomed to focusing on, and at first it's a bit overwhelming.”

and

“. . . we bought a ZXR400 screamer - she couldn't ride it as her clutch control wasn't good enuff and she stalled out 100 times before throwing in the towel. If it had been a 650 twin, the torque would have made it a walk in the park and she'd have been fine.”

There were a LOT of helpful comments, many of which mirrored my own concerns about seat height, weight, beater/cost issues and horsepower, but these two really focused my thoughts. I started riding at 12 or 13 – decades ago, and feathering the clutch while rolling on the throttle is not a problem for me on ANYTHING, and I’m sure that’s the case with everyone here. But for a newby taking off from a stop in traffic, that is probably the surest problem and the best way to have her drop it, get frustrated, embarrassed, maybe hurt, and certainly take away the joy of riding. So that means that a 4 cylinder is OUT. I really think that the Kawasaki Ninja 500 or Suzuki GS500 are the way to go. Used of course, and preferable dropped a few times so the price is low and it’s well suited to getting dropped a few more times before it’s turned over for maybe something like the FZ6 she had her eye on (if that’s what she thinks she wants at that point).

Which takes me to the next point that was well made. At this point, there is NO way to have her choose what she’s comfortable on. She has no experience and couldn’t even ride home anything we might buy. After she’s gotten her license and ridden something like a beater 500 Kawasaki or Suzuki, then she’ll be in a position to make a decision about what she wants in a bike she’ll be riding for a while. One thing I can tell you for sure – she has no interest in riding a cruiser, especially a HD.

I especially appreciate the comments from women I’ve received – you’ve put my mind at ease about the multitasking. I thought it was entirely possible that piloting a bike would command focus, and your comments have made me more comfortable with that. She is not accident prone in a car, though sometimes a bit too slow and cautious. Which gets me to another interesting thought:

“Be prepared to ride super slow !! I would never do it.”

That one requires some thought for two reasons. I have had this experience riding with some guys (on cruisers) who have driven me nuts. I’ll wait for them, but shit, if you are getting passed by all the cage traffic on the interstate – WTF??? So, I guess I’d failed to consider the limits of my own patience in waiting on REALLY slow riders. And that gets me to the other side of that coin: do I really want to ride at my pace if she might feel she needs to keep up and ride faster than she can? NO, but too much of that would diminish my enjoyment, too. That’s why I mentioned her doggedness leading to her getting hurt skiing. Anyway – all food for thought.

So, the inescapable conclusion is that it’s a process that will take a while to have her at a point and on a bike where she is truly able to ride “with” me. That’s just the way it is, though, and the alternative is too likely to be her getting hurt. Fortunately, she understands all this and fully agrees. So, it’s MSF for her first – probably next spring. Then we’ll see where it goes from there.

Many thanks for taking the time to help us make a decision we can both feel good about.

 

[sparky3008]

Dirt Bike that is my advice.

You mention going down. I have ridden street for 18 years and have never gone down.

Ridden dirt even longer and I go down each time because on the dirt I push it way past my limit because I know that I can and not get hurt. Plus it has taught me how to fall, what it takes to make my bike fall and what I can get away with. On a street bike you really can't ever learn these things without a lot of injury and a lot of damage.

Dirt can be a lot of fun for the both of you and you don't have to worry about other vehicles while she is learning all of the coordination and it is great exercise to boot.

Go Dirt my friend go Dirt...

 

[Getsum]

Dirt Bike that is my advice.
You mention going down. I have ridden street for 18 years and have never gone down.

Ridden dirt even longer and I go down each time because on the dirt I push it way past my limit because I know that I can and not get hurt. Plus it has taught me how to fall, what it takes to make my bike fall and what I can get away with. On a street bike you really can't ever learn these things without a lot of injury and a lot of damage.

Dirt can be a lot of fun for the both of you and you don't have to worry about other vehicles while she is learning all of the coordination and it is great exercise to boot.

Go Dirt my friend go Dirt...

+1 for the dirt bike route.

 

[TejasFJR]

Just had a similar experience. Since starting to look at the FJR earlier this year, my wife and I have talked a lot about being able to leave the kids with the grandparents and taking time to get out of town together. That has progressed steadily to the point that shortly after I deposited on my '06 she said she'd like to take the MSF and look into getting her own bike since she might not always want to be a passenger. Well... this last saturday we put down a deposit on a used 2003 Ninja 250 for her. We're picking it up next weekend and she's targeting an MSF course in November. It's been a fun process going through this with her. She knows the 250 is the way for her to gain skill and confidence. Incidently, we saw an FZ6 the other day and she said that that's the bike she wants to move up to once she's firmly earned her wings.

 

[sparky3008]

FZ6 very nice bike. ONe of my co-workers has one and he is a big fellow and he hauls ass on that thing...

Hope she is safe in her learning experience...

 

[madmike2]

At WFO in Idaho last year I spoke with a lady rider who had an FZ-6. She loved it but the suspension wouldn't adjust to her light weight, surely something addressed by the aftermarket.

Since it sems you are going to start her on a used parallel twin, you might introduce her to the SV650 (V-twin) or the new Kawi 650R (Parallel twin) when the time comes. I know there is a "ton" of aftermarket bits for the Suzuki, the Kawi is so new the jury is still out on that bike. IMO, both are as "sexy" as the FZ-6, but hey, it'll be her bike so she'll have to get what makes her heart go "pitty-pat".

Oh yeah, congrats on the new riding partner!

 

[sparky3008]

At WFO in Idaho last year I spoke with a lady rider who had an FZ-6. She loved it but the suspension wouldn't adjust to her light weight, surely something addressed by the aftermarket.Since it sems you are going to start her on a used parallel twin, you might introduce her to the SV650 (V-twin) or the new Kawi 650R (Parallel twin) when the time comes. I know there is a "ton" of aftermarket bits for the Suzuki, the Kawi is so new the jury is still out on that bike. IMO, both are as "sexy" as the FZ-6, but hey, it'll be her bike so she'll have to get what makes her heart go "pitty-pat".

Oh yeah, congrats on the new riding partner!

I would not personally recommend these. The SV650 is in many ways faster than the GSXR-600. Top end the GSXR is faster but the SV is no beginner bike...

 

[TejasFJR]

Whelp, we picked up my wife's bike last weekend. She's taking the basic MSF course in a little over a week and even though she hasn't ridden the bike yet she still gets "that" grin when she walks by the bike. Really looking forward to next spring.

 

[sparky3008]

She looks awesome on that bike. Seems to fit her size very well. Go out with her as much as you can and keep it at her pace. It is easier said than done but she will appreciate it.

Riding skills are only part of the equation as you know. Making yourself seen is a very important skill to learn and the MSF course does a good job of it but still more to learn. For example they may teach moving in the lane to make someone see you but that is no guarantee and you have to make sure you have a way out if they cut you off. Stopping if you're not going to get run over or changing lanes but these are sometimes things that you have to think out and set up before hand. Slowing down before it happens means you don't have to slam on your brakes and have the person behind come over you. Slowing down or speeding up might mean opening up the next lane for you so you can switch. All important things to constantly keep in mind as a bike rider.

Also on the highway many have different views of which lane they like.

I personally might go against what many teach and that is they teach to stay in the left hand side of a lane so people can see you. This is good on a two lane road but on the highway this rule constantly changes.

Fast lane I ride in the right hand side so that the lane next to me can see me in their mirror. If I am over to the left I am in their blind spot.

Now the other lanes are a real challenge because they very with whether you are going faster than the lane next to you or if they are passing you.

If I am going faster than say a lane to my right I am in the right hand side so they can see me and don't cut me off trying to change lanes plus I will have a whole lane to swerve and slow.

If the lane to my left is slow the same thing applies but if they are faster and the right hand lane is slower I figure the faster lane can see me as they approach and the right lane needs to use their mirror so I try to stay where they can see me.

These are things that most cage drivers do not think about as they occupy the entire lane. These are things that keep us alive.

I was behind two cars today coming up on traffic that was slowing down and I could tell the second car wasn't paying attention so I moved to the left lane and all the way to the left of the lane in case they swerved to avoid an accident. Sure enough they had to jam on their brakes.

My wife has ridden dirt bikes with me and she could learn to ride just fine but the skills to survive on the road require constant attention. Explain these different ways of thinking to her as you are driving down the road in your car.

Hope she has fun...

 

[radman]

Wife managed to sprain her wrist, ankle, and ego at MSF on a baby Suzi 250 cruiser. Little bike is no guarantee that she won't go down is what I'm trying to say. The first few weeks of learning seem the most important-a get off or other calamity could ruin her for life, mentally if not physically, as far as a riding future. Don't accept that because they instruct at an MSF course, they are the end-all of ability and training expertise. If I had it to do over again, I would observe the instructors a bit before putting my SO's life and training in their hands.

 

[sparky3008]

Very Very True Radman.

I was just talking about philosophy of riding, Skills can only be learned by doing.

Dropping that Kawasaki is going to cost big money to fix even if she doesn't get hurt.

Dirt bikes get dropped all the time and are easy and cheap to replace the small parts on them that bend or brake.

Biggest cause of dropping a bike as beginner is manipulation of the clutch and throttle. Taking off and having the front wheel in wrong direction and hitting the brakes and then high siding. At slow speeds even below 5mph this can mean her trying to catch herself and hurting her wrists and not to mention damage to bike and her ego.

That is why I figure a cheap dirt bike which is lighter and easier to handle would be good to learn the small fine tuned skills that take time to learn and is what she will be doing most in the MSF anyway...

Plus she can mess with the dirt bike this winter on decent days when the weather isn't too bad...

 

[Geezer]

It is a good idea to start out on a dirt bike, but not everyone lives in an area where that is possible. My wife learned on my Kawasaki 500 back in the 70's and never crashed, but she never used that bike like I did.

My oldest daughter started on a SV650S, second daughter on a Ninja 500, and third daughter on a Ninja 250. They all took the MSF course. The Ninjas were better started bikes than the SV650S and that daughter did crash and wreck the bike in a tight left turn after riding for about a year, but she was fully geared up and did not get more than a few bruises. She had been riding with a group of sport bike hooligans and pushed herself beyond her skills.

So, I don't think the FZ6 is too much bike for a beginner as long as she has the right attitude and is not over confident before she develops the skills that come with experience. The most important thing to my mind is to learn to watch all of the other vehicles on the road and anticipate that one of them is going to do something stupid at any moment.