Holeshot Header and Remus Hexacone Sound Comparisons

[UselessPickles]

I've now had every combination of stock, Holeshot header and Remus Hexacone slip-ons. Here's startup/idle/rev comparisons taken from roughly the same location with the same equipment so you can get a fairly good idea of the differences:

All stock:



Enjoy!

 

[Niehart]

Too funny.

I have stock headers/Remus Hexacones on my bike. My dog, Tugger, always come to meet me when I ride up to the house. When I played the stock header/remus hexacones, Tugger came running down the stairs. He was able to pick out that sounds and came down to meet me.

 

[zenwhipper]

Nice work Useless P.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[UselessPickles]

lol... Yeah, my parrot and my 1-year-old kid both know when I'm coming home when they hear the sound of my bike coming down the road. My wife says that the parrot starts screaming my name when he hears my bike.

 

[fljab]

I wonder what the actual db difference is...

Your vid of the stock header/aftermarket can had your dog barking in it, which my dog started gruffin' here in the office.

I like the deeper tone of the complete aftermarket system, but still wonder about actual sound output/how much louder. You notice a big difference in power?

If one was after more power, what would be the complete upgrade? Aftermarket exhaust, K&N air filter, and power commander? How much more could you expect from that?

 

[UselessPickles]

I don't have a decibel meter. Even if I did, I'm not gonna re-install all these combinations to get measurements

As for power:

• There have been reports of the Holeshot header + stock slip-ons causing a loss in torque across the RPM range. Someone posted a dyno chart as evidence, but I don't remember where or how big the difference was.
• Holeshot claims ~7hp gain with their full system (using the Holeshot slip-ons), but I've never seen a dyno chart of a full Holeshot system compared to stock.
• Here's a dyno comparison of my full Holeshot + Remus system compared to stock. Keep in mind that I also had a heavily modified air box at the time (and that my air filter was over-oiled). Also keep in mind that even though there was not a gain in peak HP or torque, this torque curve increased overall acceleration significantly, thanks to the relatively high and flat torque curve from 4000-8000 RPM.
• Based on my recent switch from Holeshot to stock header, it appears that the Holeshot header was partially (but not completely) responsible for the decrease in torque below 3700 RPM and the increase from 3700-5200 RPM. I believe the modified air box also contributes to that reassignment of torque (see also Wicked Webby's air box mod results, which are inconclusive for the below-3700-RPM area).
• Still nothing conclusive about what caused the slight loss of torque from 6000-8000 RPM. One theory is the over-oiled air filter. Or maybe that's just the result of the Holeshot Header and Remus Hexacones interacting.
• Stock vs K&N air filter is probably insignificant for this bike. The difference between the PCIII fuel maps for the two on a stock bike is very small.
• PCIII or some other fuel tuning system with appropriate tuning/mapping is a must for a full exhaust system. Otherwise, it's still very nice for smoothing out partial throttle hesitation, etc.

The reason I switched back to a stock header was to see if it affected vibration. It didn't. I don't feel like going through all that work again, and I think I like the sound better with the stock header, so be on the lookout for a stainless steel + ceramic coated Holeshot header with an O2 sensor bung in the "for sale" section.

 

[Andyfjr]

I don't have a decibel meter. Even if I did, I'm not gonna re-install all these combinations to get measurements

As for power:

[*]There have been reports of the Holeshot header + stock slip-ons causing a loss in torque across the RPM range. Someone posted a dyno chart as evidence, but I don't remember where or how big the difference was.

[*

Here is the dyno printout comparing a standard setup against Holeshot headers fitted, everything else the same. You can see that there is no improvement in power or torque, in fact quite the contrary. You cant get much more power out of a standard Fjr by adding exhaust/induction parts. I too have a set of Holeshot headers forsale if any body want to make a reasonable offer?

Dyno comparison Standard v Holeshot headers

I will be adding a Power commander V with Auto tune to improve cruising fuel efficiency soon.

Andy

 

[UselessPickles]

I will be adding a Power commander V with Auto tune to improve cruising fuel efficiency soon.

Good luck with that. The stock system is already pretty good with cruising efficiency because of the closed-loop cruising mode using the stock O2 sensor to maintain a 14.7:1 AFR. As soon as you open the throttle to accelerate, it drops out of closed-loop mode and uses the built-in fuel map + feedback from sensors for richer fueling (but still not rich enough in some cases, which is why a PCIII/PCV improves hesitation, etc).

Using the AutoTune, you lose the difference between cruising and non-cruising. If you lean out all your cruising areas, the PCV+AutoTune doesn't differentiate between a certain throttle position + engine speed being used for cruising, or if it's being used for acceleration. There's a lot of overlap, especially with lighter steadier acceleration where lean hesitation is the most detrimental. I've fought with this with my Motty AFR Tuner and eventually came to the conclusion that I just need two separate maps that I can switch between on the fly, if I really want to maximize cruising efficiency on the freeway: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=123878

The most ideal solution would be if the PCV or Motty had a "steady state cruising" option where you could specify your desired cruising AFR, then when it detects that you are "cruising" (due to minimal changes in throttle and/or engine speed over time), it would temporarily switch over to adjusting toward your cruising AFR target rather than using the AFR map.

Another option is to use the AutoTune for a while to build up a good custom fuel map, then disable the AutoTune and reinstall + connect the stock O2 sensor. This will make use of your custom fuel map whenever the stock ECU does not believe that you are cruising, but will still switch to closed-loop mode and target 14.7:1 AFR while you are cruising (basically ignoring your custom map during that time).

 

[Andyfjr]

I will be adding a Power commander V with Auto tune to improve cruising fuel efficiency soon.

Good luck with that. The stock system is already pretty good with cruising efficiency because of the closed-loop cruising mode using the stock O2 sensor to maintain a 14.7:1 AFR. As soon as you open the throttle to accelerate, it drops out of closed-loop mode and uses the built-in fuel map + feedback from sensors for richer fueling (but still not rich enough in some cases, which is why a PCIII/PCV improves hesitation, etc).

Using the AutoTune, you lose the difference between cruising and non-cruising. If you lean out all your cruising areas, the PCV+AutoTune doesn't differentiate between a certain throttle position + engine speed being used for cruising, or if it's being used for acceleration. There's a lot of overlap, especially with lighter steadier acceleration where lean hesitation is the most detrimental. I've fought with this with my Motty AFR Tuner and eventually came to the conclusion that I just need two separate maps that I can switch between on the fly, if I really want to maximize cruising efficiency on the freeway: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=123878

The most ideal solution would be if the PCV or Motty had a "steady state cruising" option where you could specify your desired cruising AFR, then when it detects that you are "cruising" (due to minimal changes in throttle and/or engine speed over time), it would temporarily switch over to adjusting toward your cruising AFR target rather than using the AFR map.

Another option is to use the AutoTune for a while to build up a good custom fuel map, then disable the AutoTune and reinstall + connect the stock O2 sensor. This will make use of your custom fuel map whenever the stock ECU does not believe that you are cruising, but will still switch to closed-loop mode and target 14.7:1 AFR while you are cruising (basically ignoring your custom map during that time).

The PC V with Autotune can do individual gear mapping, so for example, 5th gear between 3000-5000 rpm at 20% throttle can have the afr leaned a little out to improve fuel economy. There is also a on the fly map switching so a base map with the necessary fueling adjustments already set and an autotune mode so a perfect afr can be set across all rpm/gear/throttle positoins

Having come back from a Euro trip, where one day we covered 750+miles at a cruise speed of 90+mph, I attained 33mpg(English MPG) whilst my buddies always got 43mpg or better. They have different bikes, but there shouldn't be such a difference in fuel usage. My custom map(PC III) is rich in the 20% column where it needs to be leaner, but only in top gear when I mainly keep a steady throttle.

Andy

 

[UselessPickles]

The PC V with Autotune can do individual gear mapping, so for example, 5th gear between 3000-5000 rpm at 20% throttle can have the afr leaned a little out to improve fuel economy. There is also a on the fly map switching so a base map with the necessary fueling adjustments already set and an autotune mode so a perfect afr can be set across all rpm/gear/throttle positoins

The per-gear mapping seems promising, but last time I looked into the PCV's map switching capabilities, it could only be used if AutoTune is NOT being used.

 

[Spinner]

I don't have a decibel meter. Even if I did, I'm not gonna re-install all these combinations to get measurements <img src="https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" " border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

As for power:

<ul><li>There have been reports of the Holeshot header + stock slip-ons causing a loss in torque across the RPM range. Someone posted a dyno chart as evidence, but I don't remember where or how big the difference was.</li><li>Holeshot claims ~7hp gain with their full system (using the Holeshot slip-ons), but I've never seen a dyno chart of a full Holeshot system compared to stock.</li><li>Here's <a href="https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=120164" target="_blank">a dyno comparison of my full Holeshot + Remus system compared to stock</a>. Keep in mind that I also had a heavily modified air box at the time (and that my air filter was over-oiled). Also keep in mind that even though there was not a gain in peak HP or torque, this torque curve <a href="https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=119023" target="_blank">increased overall acceleration significantly</a>, thanks to the relatively high and flat torque curve from 4000-8000 RPM.</li><li>Based on my recent switch from Holeshot to stock header, it appears that the Holeshot header was partially (but not completely) responsible for the decrease in torque below 3700 RPM and the increase from 3700-5200 RPM. I believe the modified air box also contributes to that reassignment of torque (see also <a href="https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=102302" target="_blank">Wicked Webby's air box mod results</a>, which are inconclusive for the below-3700-RPM area). </li><li>Still nothing conclusive about what caused the slight loss of torque from 6000-8000 RPM. One theory is the over-oiled air filter. Or maybe that's just the result of the Holeshot Header and Remus Hexacones interacting. </li><li>Stock vs K&N air filter is probably insignificant for this bike. The difference between the PCIII fuel maps for the two on a stock bike is very small.</li><li>PCIII or some other fuel tuning system with appropriate tuning/mapping is a must for a full exhaust system. Otherwise, it's still very nice for smoothing out partial throttle hesitation, etc.</li></ul>

The reason I switched back to a stock header was to see if it affected vibration. It didn't. I don't feel like going through all that work again, and I think I like the sound better with the stock header, so be on the lookout for a stainless steel + ceramic coated Holeshot header with an O2 sensor bung in the "for sale" section.

 

[Spinner]

Pickles'

I have an '06 with a PC3, G2 Throttle cam, Remus hexacones and the stock header and air box. I was thinking about adding a Holeshot header to the mix until I read your posts. It sounds like you tried hard to make that combination work without much success. I think I'll forget the header. Question, are the catalytic converters still in your stock header? If so, have you thought about removing them like somebody else on the Forum did a couple of years ago? I'm thinking that the smaller diameter stock head pipes might prevent the decrease in low to mid range torque and HP that you experienced with the Holeshot. Any thoughts on this?

Spinner