Procedure to R&R a rectifier/regulator?

[DaSpyda]

Okay, so I was in Daytona yesterday, and the 06 AE would not start after a fillup. Another bike was used to jump the battery and off we went to CycleWorld - a multi-franchise repair and parts shop. The bike died again on the street next to the building and we pushed it in the service drive. Deader than a doornail - we couldn't even jump it again.

Bought a new battery (original was about 4 yrs old) and the shop said the stator was giving out "false readings" in that they fluctuated wildly.

Last night I was on the Board and came to the conclusion that the Rectifier/Regulator needed to be replaced.

Could someone take a few minutes to outline the procedure to remove and replace it?

I am looking at online sources to buy one now and I'd rather not add labor to the total, if ya know what I mean...

2006 AE, with 22,400 on the clock, bone stock.

Thanks!

Don

 

[Toecutter]

Could someone take a few minutes to outline the procedure to remove and replace it?

I'd pursue a YES replacement first....

 

[DaSpyda]

Love to, but I do not have an extended warranty.

 

[ionbeam]

Could someone take a few minutes to outline the procedure to remove and replace it?

Gen II, located at the rear, bottom of the engine in the neighborhood of the ABS unit. Unplug the two connectors, they will have clips that retain them. Remove the two nuts that hold the R/R to the bracket. Remove. Reverse the procedure with a new R/R.

What the heck happened? The R/R on the FJR is a pretty robust part. Dead batteries shouldn't hurt the R/R. Shorted wires would blow the main fuse before the R/R.

What the heck happened? (Part II)

the stator was giving out "false readings" in that they fluctuated wildly.

:blink: If this is true, this is where you should start. Engine running, hold at 5k rpm. Set DMM to AC volts. Unplug the connector with the three white wires. Measure voltage between any white wire to any white wire (not to ground). All three combinations should produce a reading of >60 volts AC and the voltage should be steady. The stock stator is a pretty robust part and shouldn't be failing.

Do you have any aftermarket items or farkles you would like to confess to -- in the name of diagnostic assistance? Have there been any other wiring issues in the past?

 

[DaSpyda]

Could someone take a few minutes to outline the procedure to remove and replace it?

Gen II, located at the rear, bottom of the engine in the neighborhood of the ABS unit. Unplug the two connectors, they will have clips that retain them. Remove the two nuts that hold the R/R to the bracket. Remove. Reverse the procedure with a new R/R.

What the heck happened? The R/R on the FJR is a pretty robust part. Dead batteries shouldn't hurt the R/R. Shorted wires would blow the main fuse before the R/R.

What the heck happened? (Part II)

the stator was giving out "false readings" in that they fluctuated wildly.

:blink: If this is true, this is where you should start. Engine running, hold at 5k rpm. Set DMM to AC volts. Unplug the connector with the three white wires. Measure voltage between any white wire to any white wire (not to ground). All three combinations should produce a reading of >60 volts AC and the voltage should be steady. The stock stator is a pretty robust part and shouldn't be failing.

Do you have any aftermarket items or farkles you would like to confess to -- in the name of diagnostic assistance? Have there been any other wiring issues in the past?

Last year, on my way to Sturgis, I was running some aftermarket driving lights - Hella FF75. I rode from Houston to North Texas the first day. The next day I rode from North Texas to South Nebraska. All this with the lights on. After stopping for fuel, the bike wouldn't start and I had to get the battery charged to continue. I disconnected the lights and have not used them since.

The lights were wired directly to the battery through a relay.

I am a noob when it comes to measuring electrical stuff. I don't even have a voltmeter, if that's what I need...

I appreciate your assistance...

 

[ionbeam]

Warning, my first post may contain an error. For some reason the '06 FSM shows the R/R at the lower-back of the engine, the parts fiche shows it up by the battery. I'm going to have to get meself a Gen II just to keep up

I am a noob when it comes to measuring electrical stuff. I don't even have a voltmeter, if that's what I need...

The only way to properly troubleshoot the electrical system and find the root cause is with a volt meter. It might be time to put out a SOS for a local FJR owner to give you an assist. The electrical system is an expensive bunch of parts for shotgun troubleshooting. The R/R 1D7-81960-00-00 alone is $150-$160. If you guess wrong that would have equaled a couple of hours of shop time.

aftermarket driving lights - Hella FF75. I rode from Houston to North Texas...from North Texas to South Nebraska. All this with the lights on. After stopping for fuel, the bike wouldn't start

The Hella's are a total of 110 watts, your Gen II electrical system should have been up to the task. The fact that you had a flat battery after running the lights says that something is not right with your electrical system (DUH!). Again, I feel that the first place to start is to measure the output of all three phases of the stator. If the stator voltage(s) are low on one or more phases it's time to check the stator wires for condition. If that looks ok it is time go go stator diving. Stator 3P6-81410-00-00 will be ~$230. When I tried to buy a new Yamaha stator for my Gen I there were ZERO in stock in this country because 'they have a very low failure rate in such new motorcycles'.

If the stator is good then you need to test the output of the R/R. With a known good, fully charged battery start the engine and give the charging system a few minutes to recover from the starting current draw. Read directly from the battery + to - terminals, do not use engine or frame ground. With all accessories off, low beams on, at idle, right on the battery terminals (not the wire terminals) you should read >13.2 volts. Same conditions but with the engine at 5k rpm you should read >14.0 volts. These voltages are the lower limit for good readings.

The next steps will be determined by the stator and battery voltages.

 

[DaSpyda]

Thanks, Ionbeam,

It was late when I got home, so all I did was unwrap the new multi-reader I got at Walmart. Started the bike and let it idle for a minute.

The reading was 11.8 at idle. I didn't rev as it was late and my neighbor's houses were dark.

I have a line on a R/R for 85 new, in the box, so I might get that, anyway.

I'll test some more in a couple days - got things going on Tue-Thur.

BTW, I saw what looked like the R/R at the back of the bike right next to the shock adjustment lever, but the parts fiche said it was the ECU.

I'm not seeing the R/R at the battery - do I have to remove some fairing pieces?

 

[wfooshee]

Should go without saying, but the ECU has a lot more wires going into it than the regulator.

 

[2WheelTiger]

It's quite common to have a bunch of corrosion at the three prong connector described above. Corrosion causes overheating which causes melting of the plug and failure of the connection.

Failure of a single connector at the stator output / RR input will cause a SIGNIFICANT loss of charging ability and 'readings fluctuations.'

Time for a good cleaning before you spend any money. Scrub, scrub, scrub.

 

[SkooterG]

The reading was 11.8 at idle. I didn't rev as it was late and my neighbor's houses were dark.

That sounds pretty low to me.

I didn't notice much difference between idling and revving voltages on my FJR. Both were in the 14.1-14.2 volt range. At 11.8 you are not charging your battery, but depleting it. I'll let the EE experts like ionbeam and Fred W expound further.

I had recent starter problems and while trying to diagnose, I measured a bunch of voltages in different states that I detail IN THIS POST.

 

[Harald]

Thanks, Ionbeam,
It was late when I got home, so all I did was unwrap the new multi-reader I got at Walmart. Started the bike and let it idle for a minute.

The reading was 11.8 at idle. I didn't rev as it was late and my neighbor's houses were dark.

I have a line on a R/R for 85 new, in the box, so I might get that, anyway.

I'll test some more in a couple days - got things going on Tue-Thur.

BTW, I saw what looked like the R/R at the back of the bike right next to the shock adjustment lever, but the parts fiche said it was the ECU.

I'm not seeing the R/R at the battery - do I have to remove some fairing pieces?

I haven't changed a FJR R/R, but I'm pretty sure it's what you saw next to the shock adjust lever. I noticed it on my 07 and can't think of anything else on the FJR that needs to be in a "finned for cooling package" other than a R/R.

 

[ionbeam]

I haven't changed a FJR R/R, but I'm pretty sure it's what you saw next to the shock adjust lever. I noticed it on my 07 and can't think of anything else on the FJR that needs to be in a "finned for cooling package" other than a R/R.

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure that is in the area where I saw the R/R on NiceRumble's FJR. It wasn't really hidden from view.

 

[dcarver]

It's near the rear shock, in the center.

Be careful with the connector 'ears'. I broke both of them stupid things and now have a ty-rap securing the connector to the module. Not sure what the proper technique is as I broke not one, but both.

Getting to it is a pita if you've got big mitts.

Oh, don't think of replacing it with an ElectroSport unit. I bought a RR from ES for WABS, my DL650. The quality of the connector was poor, and the wire wasn't secured into the connector. Sent it back, they sent a new one, it had the same issue. Ended up buying a new OEM unit. My .02 worth regarding ElectroSport.

 

[DaSpyda]

It's near the rear shock, in the center.
Be careful with the connector 'ears'. I broke both of them stupid things and now have a ty-rap securing the connector to the module. Not sure what the proper technique is as I broke not one, but both.

Getting to it is a pita if you've got big mitts.

Oh, don't think of replacing it with an ElectroSport unit. I bought a RR from ES for WABS, my DL650. The quality of the connector was poor, and the wire wasn't secured into the connector. Sent it back, they sent a new one, it had the same issue. Ended up buying a new OEM unit. My .02 worth regarding ElectroSport.

I heard that...in my search for an OEM, I came across a few posts that blasted ES.

Thanks for the reminder...

 

[DaSpyda]

Threw the battery on a Tender, Jr. for a day, after which it measured 12.4.

Started the bike, and after a couple minutes, took another reading from the battery posts - 12.4.

Revved it and held at 5k - 12.8.

I disconnected the two plugs at the R/R, shot air/fuel meter cleaner into them and the actual R/R. Then, I waited about an hour for all of it to dry.

Plugged everything back - no change.

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Now, I guess I want to measure the voltage coming from the stator, so which plug should I measure - the one with the red/white wires, or the three white wires?

And, if it's the red/white, I'm assuming the red goes to red on the voltage meter, and the black goes to the white?

Thanks, guys!!!! I feel very confident in overcoming this because of your guidance...

 

[DaSpyda]

UPDATE: got the R/R in and installed it this morning. Fairly simple...

Approach the R/R from the right (brake pedal) side of the bike. It's located in front of the rear tire/fender splashguard.

There are two 10mm nuts on each side. Remove them, and then go over to the left side by the rear shock damping selector. You can extract the R/R from this side and have ample access to now remove the two wire plugs.

To install, just reverse the procedure.

The 10mm nut towards the front of the bike is more difficult to put back on as it's in a very tight area. I put the nut in my socket and used that to start it.

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There was no change to the voltage, so I read some threads on here dealing with the stator and how it can wear out with heavy farkle use over an extended period of time.

I think my Sturgis trip with constant use of the Hella's was the beginning of the end.

So, I ordered a stator from extremepowersports.com for the $250. There was a $25 off coupon so that covered shipping. It's coming from Japan so I'll get it in about ten days.

 

[billfjr]

Hi,

As you know by now the charging system is not charging. 13.5 V -15.5 V with 14.2 V being ideal is a typical specification with the engine running. Open circuit voltage on a fully charged battery is generally between 12.6 V to 12.8 V. Open circuit voltage is read with the engine and all accessories off, turn on lights for 15 to 30 seconds to reduce any surface on the battery, then read open circuit voltage.

Back to your problem 12.4 V at idle or 1500 RPM indicates a no charge condition. Looking at a wire schematic for an "08" FJR shows a fuse #8 inline between the R of the rectifier terminal and the battery, if this fuse is open a no charge condition will exist.

Generally, stators are checked statically with an ohmmeter or 110 V light. Unplug the stator, using an ohmmeter (if the meter is not auto ranging select X 1 scale) place a lead on the wire going to stator, then place the other lead on the other wire going to the stator.

A good reading would be .13-.19 ohms @ 70 deg F. Move the lead to the next stator wire and the reading should be the same. If both readings are good check the stator for an unwanted ground. Place one lead on the stator wire and the other on alternator cover bolt (ground) A good reading is O.L., any other reading K or M ohms indicates a short. If any of the readings are outside of spec replace.

I have not seen the rectifier/regulator on an FJR but the test shown in the service manual indicates it tested for voltage while the engine is running. Most automotive rectifiers are tested statically with diode test function on a DVOM, it pushes a small amout of current

thru the diode usually at .500 V.

Get a schematic of your charging system test the wires for continuity before trying to repair the alternator.

Good Luck,

Bill

 

[DaSpyda]

Thanks a bunch, Bill!

I took off the side cover so I'd have easy access to the R/R plugs and some more wiring.

I placed the volt meter on the Ohm symbol and placed the red lead into the first slot on the 3-wire plug that goes to the R/R (all three wires are white).

I then placed the black lead in the middle slot and the meter fluctuated between .1 and .3, and finally settled on .1.

I then placed the black lead into the third slot, some fluctuation, and then it settled on .3.

I then placed the black lead on a bolt and it read O.L.

So, judging from your guidance, the stator must be replaced, correct?

Don

 

[ionbeam]

IMO, no consumer grade 3 1/2 digit DMM can adequately determine the health of a stator by measuring resistance unless a winding has high resistance or is broken. If the connector is off and accessible for ohming then the best diagnostic is to do a voltage check.

From post #4:

Engine running, hold at 5k rpm. Set DMM to AC volts. Unplug the connector with the three white wires. Measure voltage between any white wire to any white wire (not to ground). All three combinations should produce a reading of >60 volts AC and the voltage should be steady.

Resistance spec for the stator windings is in the range mentioned by billfjr (.15 to .23 ohms per FSM). Set the DMM for the x1 range or .200 as it is on many DMMs. Now simply touch the black and red leads together -- if you were expecting to see a short = 0.000 ohms surprise, surprise. The resistance of the meter leads alone is as much or more than the expected stator readings. This is why I recommend a voltage test.