Regulator Rectifier Question

[S76]

Every time I unplug the wires on the RR on my 06 I get more oil out of the cannon plug. Looks like motor oil. Not a lot of oil, maybe a 1/4 teaspoon.

At first I thought it had been put in there for anti corrosion, but it seems to keep happening.

Thoughts?

 

[ionbeam]

There is about a 99% chance that the R/R is filled with a solid potting compound. There is a very good chance that the oil you are finding is wicking up the inside the stator wire sheath. Oil migrates by capillary action around the three stator wires. Others in the past have found this same thing. It isn't common, but not unheard of either.

Have you had the stator cover off for any reason? The oil would have to pass through the constriction at the rubber grommet at the top of the stator housing. Perhaps in the fiddling something at the grommet isn't as tight as it should be.

 

[S76]

Thanks Alan.

I noticed it first when the bike was 6 months old. I was taking things apart to add corrosion preventative compound to the connectors amoung other things. These 2 RR plugs had plenty of oil in them. Enough so it ran out when they were unplugged.

Now a few years later I am trying to work out a charging system problem and I find more oil in those connectors. I suspected the RR was oil filled for heat transfer and leaking out the plug. Maybe not.

The stator cover has never been off. I'll try to examine back along the wires for wicking. Thanks for the tip.

Also see my want add for a used RR. Charge voltage seems low, stator output seems good. Unplugged RR is 15.4VDC output.

I,m not sure I understand all I know about this quite yet. Still digging.

 

[ionbeam]

You probably know most if not all of this, at the risk of TMI...

What you really need to check is the stator output. With the stator unplugged, DMM set for AC volts, with the engine @ 5k rpm you should measure ~70 VAC any wire to any wire. It is more important that the voltages are equal any wire to any wire than the absolute output voltage. On a stock Gen II any absolute voltage that is under 60 VAC is cause for alarm.

If this checks out, you have done the next step which is to verify the R/R output. It is capped at 15.4 so the regulator part is working.

If all this passes the next step is to look for voltage drops in the electrical system. Backprobe the R/R connector, put red DMM lead on red R/R wire, put the black DMM lead on the positive post of the battery. Start the engine, read the meter -- the voltage you read is what is being lost between the R/R output and the battery terminal. This will be the sum of wire resistance, connections, the main power fuse and any associated connections. Now backprobe the black wire in the R/R connector with the red DMM lead and put the black DMM lead on the negative post of the battery. Start the engine, what you are reading is the voltage drop on the negative power lead. Ideally these drops should be <0.100 volts but real world you may see a bit more. When you do the voltage drop test, probe the actual battery post, not the connector. By probing the actual battery post you will also be reading the quality of the battery cable to the battery post.

Let us know what you find! If all this passes, you are probably going to need a current meter or amp probe capable of measuring 60 amps or so.

 

[Crash Cash]

Backprobe the R/R connector, put red DMM lead on red R/R wire, put the black DMM lead on the positive post of the battery. Start the engine, read the meter -- the voltage you read is what is being lost between the R/R output and the battery terminal.

:dribble: Yeah. I flunked hard out of college electrical physics 101 for a REASON. Thankfully we have people like you to pick up the slack. Beer all around if you ever make it to Central Florida (or I ever make it to NH)

If I ever get a time machine, I'm going to go back and make my high school science "teacher" beg for death. :angry:

So this voltage drop x the amperage going through the cable is "power dissipated" in watts, right? and I can convert the watts to a general idea of temperature rise?

 

[ionbeam]

...If I ever get a time machine, I'm going to go back and make my high school science "teacher" beg for death...So this voltage drop x the amperage going through the cable is "power dissipated" in watts, right? and I can convert the watts to a general idea of temperature rise?

Bingo. If only we accurately knew what the amperage is, AFAIK, nobody has measured the normal operating current. To take a SWAG, assume 250 watts nominal, = 18 amps at 14 volts. With a 0.100 volt drop between the R/R connector and the battery that is 1.8 watts. If the power is uniformly distributed along the entire run, that's nothing. If it all happens at one terminal on one connector it is significant, ask the Gen II ignition switch

In the 7th grade I was going to school in Atlanta where I was 'privileged' to be in the advanced class so I was being taught

* New Math * instead of that old school algebra. About 6 weeks before the end of the school year I moved to Cleveland and entered a math class where they had been learning algebra all year :blink: The worst thing that ever happened to me was to have passed the finals. In retrospect I wish I had failed and took a full year. I didn't fully appreciate how difficult that was going to make math and science later.

 

[S76]

If all this passes the next step is to look for voltage drops in the electrical system. Backprobe the R/R connector, put red DMM lead on red R/R wire, put the black DMM lead on the positive post of the battery. Start the engine, read the meter -- the voltage you read is what is being lost between the R/R output and the battery terminal. This will be the sum of wire resistance, connections, the main power fuse and any associated connections. Now backprobe the black wire in the R/R connector with the red DMM lead and put the black DMM lead on the negative post of the battery. Start the engine, what you are reading is the voltage drop on the negative power lead. Ideally these drops should be <0.100 volts but real world you may see a bit more. When you do the voltage drop test, probe the actual battery post, not the connector. By probing the actual battery post you will also be reading the quality of the battery cable to the battery post.
Let us know what you find! If all this passes, you are probably going to need a current meter or amp probe capable of measuring 60 amps or so.

I did the stator output, it was good, sorry, I should have mentioned that. This above discription for checking voltage loss is what I was looking for and heading for next. I had read it a long time ago in one of your posts but couldn't find it.

My issue right now is I have a DVM (Radio Shack) that reads .4VDC to high when compared to a Gigga $$$$ unit at work. A Datel that reads over a full volt lower than that, (probably due to were I wired it into the sytem,) and an Escort RD that reads .3V higher than them all! That RD I think is just wrong.

I need a good quality DVM to start to narrow this down any further.

However, I am pretty sure the tools for the day tomorrow are going to be a snow shovel and a tank of Diesel fuel.

Surely appreciate the help.

 

[Zorlac]

"Gigga $$$$ unit at work."

If that DVM is on a calibration cycle and is within its calibration date, it's the umpire.

 

[S76]

"Gigga $$$$ unit at work."
If that DVM is on a calibration cycle and is within its calibration date, it's the umpire.

Yeah, it is just as you suggest.

But more importantly where can I find the full size picture of your avatar. Every time I notice it I loose about 20 minutes of surfing time. :dribble:

 

[dcarver]

I work as a Metrologist at a local nukie plant. You would be very surprised at the Out of Tolerance rate for high dollar Measuring and Test Equipment.

Having said that, for what's in your M&TE inventory, I agree - the calibrated device is the umpire.

 

[mcatrophy]

...My issue right now is I have a DVM (Radio Shack) that reads .4VDC to high when compared to a Gigga $$$$ unit at work. A Datel that reads over a full volt lower than that, (probably due to were I wired it into the sytem,) and an Escort RD that reads .3V higher than them all! That RD I think is just wrong.

I need a good quality DVM to start to narrow this down any further.

...

If you are just looking for voltage drops along wiring paths, you don't need a highly accurate meter. If your meter reads to a resolution of (say) 0.1 volts, that is sufficient for looking for bad joints or whatever. You don't need 0.01% accuracy if looking for which contact is losing you 0.5 volts, you don't care whether it's 0.4 or 0.6; either way it's bad!

 

[JamesK]

...Also see my want add for a used RR. Charge voltage seems low, stator output seems good. Unplugged RR is 15.4VDC output.

...

Bob, i've done some research on the FJR R/R applications on the Yamaha bikes and the on our FJRs is the Shindengen FH012AA (50A MOSFET) which is used on a number of Yamaha bikes, ATVs, etc. So it might be worthwhile to search on the part # vs. FJR R/R, here is one on eBay that's actually from a 2007 Yamaha Phazer 500cc.

The OEM Yamaha part#: 1D7-81960-00-00

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...WNA%3AUS%3A1123

Ron Ayers has a cool feature on their site called Reverse Lookup, when you enter a part # in that it shows you all the models that use the same part#

Here is a quick list of the models using this same part:

YAMAHA R/R

FITS: 06-09 FJR1300; 08-10 FX NYTRO'S RTX, MTX, MX, MTX, XTX; 06-09 FZ1; 2009 FZ6, 2009 GRIZZLY 550 4X4; 07-10 GRIZZLY 700, 07-10 PHAZER'S FZ, GT, MOUNTAIN LITE, MTX, RTX, 07-08 R1, 08-10 RAIDER; 08-09 RHINO; 08-09 ROADSTAR/SILVERADO; 06-09 ROADLINER MIDNIGHT, S; 2009 ROADSTAR SILVERADO S; 2010 VECTOR RS GT; 2009 VENTURE RS GT; 06-09 STRATOLINER, MIDNIGHT, S; 07-09 V-STAR 1300, TOURER; 2009 V-STAR 950, TOURER; 07-10 VENTURE LITE; 09 V-MAX; 07-09 R1

 

[S76]

Thank You Jim!

That is great info. I missed the ebay you mentioned but found another. Bid on a RR from a 2007 Grizzly.

I'll have a Grizzly FJR. LOL

I'm not even sure mine is bad, but for $25 to plug it in and see if there is a difference is worth it.

Thanks again.

 

[JamesK]

Thank You Jim!
That is great info. I missed the ebay you mentioned but found another. Bid on a RR from a 2007 Grizzly.

I'll have a Grizzly FJR. LOL

I'm not even sure mine is bad, but for $25 to plug it in and see if there is a difference is worth it.

Thanks again.

My pleasure, btw I have a similar reading discrepancy b/w my X50 & Datel, about 0.4V. And mine are both running from a small relay powered from ACC, which effectively runs the both these meters directly from the BATT+. In fact I even went as far as placing this connection as the first (closest to the Battery lead) of a few B+ terminals connected to the battery and the BATT- is directly wired to the battery, but still no change...I've given up for now so looking forward to your test results. I do get a good steady charge coming in though, since having had to replace the Stator & R/R about 5 months ago.